Project 2025/Holzfäller: Big Bad Wolf 2 (B&M Family Invert)

[Zachary]

@Zachary amazing work on the article @CoasterMac amazing work on the rendering. what’s your alls opinion with the information you have seen and the layout you all have worked up could it support a swing style train. Not that there is any evidence to support that it is do you all see anything that prevents it from being in the realm of possibilities ?

The big problem is we don't know what a modern suspended would or would not need, you know? It's a lot like the Axis problem.

We can say this looks exactly like a B&M family invert to us (because it very much does), but it's hard to ever rule anything weird or new out because we don't have any comps for those things.

If this were a swinging layout, I think we'd have to rethink some of the support colums we imagined. It seems to me like a much larger ride envelope would be required to accommodate swinging trains than traditional trains. I don't know if all of the layout is possible with that ride envelope in mind or not.

 

[PhantomJB93]

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that, IMO, a lot of these overbanks and transitions kind of emulate the motion of the swinging. I’m sure that will be part of their explanation if ever asked why it’s paying homage to the original without its actual defining feature.

 

[CoasterAuditor]

Nerd thing but can anyone tell if the family B&M inverts have smaller track size than standard inverts?

 

[RollyCoaster]

BGW if you’re reading this… You’d have just about any fan hyped up if you’d just scrap this one last time for a true Big Bad Wolf replacement. Something even similar in scale with SWINGING trains… Spend the extra bit of money to get it right on this one…. PLEASE.

This really could be much more “huge” than these 300+ foot roller coasters that were proposed before if they can just get it right

 

[SLC Headache]

If it fully swings, and can hit 2801 feet long to beat Iron Dragon for the length record, then this ride will usher in the new generation of family-friendly coasters.

Knowing DarKoaster was just an off-the-shelf Intamin motorbike coaster instead of being customized to have riders under 48", I am feeling quite pessimistic that this will be an off-the-shelf family invert. If they do try to pass of a non-swinging inverted coaster as the Big Bad Wolf, then it will be a bigger insult to the legacy than Verbolten was (the village scene being crushed by a lackluster warehouse).

I just feel like my wish for the return of the Wolf is being answered by a genie who specializes in corrupting wishes.

 

[Jwanger93]

If this were a swinging layout, I think we'd have to rethink some of the support colums we imagined. It seems to me like a much larger ride envelope would be required to accommodate swinging trains than traditional trains. I don't know if all of the layout is possible with that ride envelope in mind or not.

That was the only thing I was wondering about if you saw anything that would impact that larger area required or any thing in the lay out that would suggest it’s just not possible at all. Trying to speculate more of what it can’t be then what it is.

 

[Zachary]

That was the only thing I was wondering about if you saw anything that would impact that larger area required or any thing in the lay out that would suggest it’s just not possible at all. Trying to speculate more of what it can’t be then what it is.

Nope. Nothing that was immediately super obvious to me at least.

 

[b.mac]

 

[warfelg]

I was wondering with the long unsupported part:
What if there’s something there that they are trying to hide? And JCC is letting them. Not the trench that’s shown in the one mock up, but with the theory that there’s some 2D set pieces, what if they make a tunnel of set parts and the supports are integrated with it, and they are leaving it off to be misleading?

I know that’s a little tin hat like but trying to think outside the box some.

 

[Jwanger93]

I don’t want to steer away from warfelg’s point but there’s like a zero chance anyone has any photos of the inside of the drachen fire station? In my quick search i didn’t see anything in the history thread?

 

[AlpenChariot]

I don’t want to steer away from warfelg’s point but there’s like a zero chance anyone has any photos of the inside of the drachen fire station? In my quick search i didn’t see anything in the history thread?

Pics from when the ride was operational? Someone's probably got a grandparent with a lot of good ones floating around.

 

[halfabee]

YouTube offers occasional glimpses of DF's station interior.

You'll want to watch all of this one. While it provides some answers about DF's station, it also raises several questions about other subjects.

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[Jwanger93]

The old pol

YouTube offers occasional glimpses of DF's station interior.

You'll want to watch all of this one. While it provides some answers about DF's station, it also raises several questions about other subjects.

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This awesome, didn’t even cross my mind to search YouTube for old video. Any photos at all were all I was thinking. Someone stated in the thread earlier the “cost saving” in reusing the old station. But I can’t help but think surely the park isn’t maintaining the station to immaculate conditions all these years are they? Not to mention having watched that video now you have to think about modern safety systems that will need to be retrofitted, the fact that it was a car on top of track design and what we are looking at now is inverted. Further more the video makes it seem like that Station building is nothing more then a glorified pavilion. I totally understand reusing it for nostalgia purposes. But a cost savings of a concrete foundation that needs modification and some 6x6s and roof rafters? I don’t know about that.

 

[Zachary]

But I can’t help but think surely the park isn’t maintaining the station to immaculate conditions all these years are they?

The building has been used as special event space for many, many, many years now.

 

[halfabee]

And conversion of an existing ride station in the opposite direction (from overhead track to sit-down) has been readily accomplished in the past, right there in the same park.

Reusing an existing structure can produce meaningful cost/time savings, if its basic construction suits the intended purpose and it is in good condition.

 

[Jwanger93]

I don’t think or was trying to suggest it’s a bad Idea. I never got to experience DF, so for me I love that they are going to reuse the building, I just don’t think they picked this plan/layout/concept solely on the cost savings of reusing the existing building. More over they wanted this and hey by the way we can save a few bucks while doing something super cool with a piece of history. I didn’t know they used it for special events so I didn’t know what state it’s been sitting in until this point. So that’s a plus that money they have been spending to maintain it is also being put to good use.

 

[Thrills & Chills WQAQ]

And conversion of an existing ride station in the opposite direction (from overhead track to sit-down) has been readily accomplished in the past, right there in the same park.

Reusing an existing structure can produce meaningful cost/time savings, if its basic construction suits the intended purpose and it is in good condition.

Quick tidbit, vortex at KI did this with the original version of the bat’s station, the hole for the track spine was visible until it was demolished, and also verbolten and BBW.

 

[mikes]

And conversion of an existing ride station in the opposite direction (from overhead track to sit-down) has been readily accomplished in the past, right there in the same park.

Reusing an existing structure can produce meaningful cost/time savings, if its basic construction suits the intended purpose and it is in good condition.

Especially if utility work that is existing will be sufficient for the new purpose.

 

[EdK]

I'll have to agree with previous posts that if it's just a suspended family coaster that would be a let down. It seems they should either be swinging trains or some new type of flying coaster.

Previously I posted that the Vekoma FLY model would be great for this area if they used the terrain and created a village that you fly through. What are the odds this could also be a launch coaster like FLY or maybe a new flying coaster from B&M to compete with Vekoma?

 

[Fenrihr]

They only got budget for a few cardboard cutout buildings and a family coaster, they ain't got the budget for a fake village and full flying coaster.

It seems like budgeting led to this decision.