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They want to build a sesame place, apparently
They are required by contract with Sesame Workshop to build new Sesame Place parks by certain deadlines. Aquatica in San Diego was changed to one because they were short on time to meet the deadline on that contract. So the rumor/survey was some idea to wall off the Sesame area and build it out into one of the parking lots into its own park. Wasnt there another rumor of making something with the WCUSA land though too?

Thread about all that: Sesame Place Williamsburg
 
What of they used Festhaus Park as a new Sesame Place and this coaster is part of it. 1 entrance and exit to and from Oktoberfest along with a catering area with the black forest might be a nice option. Then all the existing Sesame Street rides and attractions could be moved back to FP and the area at the front would be opened up for other expansion.
 
What of they used Festhaus Park as a new Sesame Place and this coaster is part of it. 1 entrance and exit to and from Oktoberfest along with a catering area with the black forest might be a nice option. Then all the existing Sesame Street rides and attractions could be moved back to FP and the area at the front would be opened up for other expansion.
This would actually be fantastic, everything over there could easily be moved.
 
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Also it’s much more marketable to families and general public think about it this way

You have twisted timbers up the road, would it have been taller and the tallest hybrid in the region? Sure but that’s a fringe record, same with spire, asides from being a stupid concept pardon my french, it was a gimmicky way to take back the Virginia height record which is again, a fringe record.

BGW wants to differentiate themselves with something that the region doesn’t have, a family inverted coaster. Iirc the closest might be Phoenix at denos or dragonflyer at Dollywood and both are marvelous rides that draw very large crowds. They’re crowd pleasers and that’s what we’re getting here. It isn’t what we wanted, but we’ll get something possibly even BETTER than what was initially proposed eventually.
Actually, their parent company has to pay $227.5m in debt in the next 2-3 years in interest due to the parameters of a particular note that they have on the books currently, and B&M offered the company a NICE package deal on some family coasters, I actually wouldn't be surprised if this project, Penguin Trek, and Phoenix Rising cost the total amount a ground up RMC would have cost (I believe I've heard AF1 was $22m but would need a source). I can tell you from looking at the most recent SEAS 10-Q and as a licensed CPA that works in financial reporting this decision was made by the top brass over cash flow. No more, no less. The company does NOT have that amount of cash on hand.

To those who do not understand, it's OKAY that a lot of us are bummed out about the pivot in project ideas. It's going to take some time for each of us to accept it individually if we were in anyway emotionally attached to the idea of this new attraction and that's okay. I walked around the last two years with the idea in my head that soon we would more likely have basically Iron Gwazi in Virginia and it brought me a lot of hope and optimism in my day to day, just a note that pops up that releases the good brain chemicals. Now that source of positivity in my subconscious is gone. Like Tom Holland in Infinity War when he didn't feel so good anymore Mr. Stark. The paragraph above really extracts quite a bit of heart and passion from the mindset of the decision makers involved from my perspective at least. On top of SEAS history of substantial budget cuts and surcharges and numerous other issues we've all discussed thoroughly.
 
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This would actually be fantastic, everything over there could easily be moved.
This could have been done... they're very similar in area. Sucks that this new ride takes up 80%+ of the direct FHP area (see: red), which then loops back to the discussion of this ride's placement & how wildly wasteful it is. Totally blocks off any room for notable buildout in FHP itself.
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Perhaps they could pull a Pantheon and bridge over the railroad (see: green) and expand south, but I have zeeeeero confidence in that.
 
Hello I would like to comment something that is going to get me slaughtered...

That area of land is big enough for an attraction or a hamlet, not both. It's just. not. that. big. Yes, it looks like it might be, but (from personal experience) I can tell you that 1) the land is extremely hilly (like, you have to climb it) and 2) that it's just not that big to begin with. I believe we are grossly overestimating the amount of usable space in this plot of land.

Here's a rough estimation of the land I believe can actually be utilized for an attraction:
Screenshot 2023-12-08 at 12.53.27 PM.png

So, is a family coaster the RIGHT use of this land? No, I don't think so. It's a major bummer, as Zachary would say, "a crime." However, just because you see trees doesn't mean that you're looking at usable land. A much bigger attraction can (and should) fit there, but adding a huge attraction AND a hamlet? Not gonna work. Never mind the train and upcoming storage facility (the little cul de sac by Busch Road [I think]). In some ways, seeing the footprint of the attraction impresses me more looking at this picture. It's certainly still a very decently sized ride, even if it's going to have a 42" height requirement.

EDIT: Here's the topographic map to show what I mean (railroad in teal which is another major complication to developing this land:
Page4.jpg
 
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Actually, their parent company has to pay $227.5m in debt in the next 2-3 years in interest due to the parameters of a particular note that they have on the books currently, and B&M offered the company a NICE package deal on some family coasters, I actually wouldn't be surprised if this project, Penguin Trek, and Phoenix Rising cost the total amount a ground up RMC would have cost (I believe I've heard AF1 was $22m but would need a source).
RMCs are much cheaper than $22M, even ground-up ones. We know from the liens that were filed that Iron Gwazi cost between $9 and $10 million in terms of actual payment to RMC. A conversion saves money by reusing some of the existing foundations, which is why conversions are attractive to budget-conscious chains like Six Flags. But the site prep and footers for AF1 absolutely did not cost $10M+. That's typically a much smaller number unless massive terraforming needs to happen.

There's a lot of overblown hype around "package deals" in this industry. Yes, they exist - typically in the form of saved engineering costs, especially if you're reusing an existing layout and structure that doesn't need to be recalculated. Think Jersey Devil at Great Adventure and Wonder Woman at Magic Mountain, which are identical except for the ending, brakes and station area, so minimal rework. But three separate and unique attractions, each requiring their own complete engineering work, aren't going to be bundled together for 25% off. Any discounts the manufacturer offers in a situation like this will be much, much smaller, and pretty negligible compared to the larger financial issues facing SEAS that you mentioned.

All three of the SEAS rides require new site prep and foundations, so you aren't saving any money there like you do with a RMC conversion. Each one is going to cost a minimum of $5-7 million to B&M, maybe more, plus site work and footers, plus whatever else needs to happen to make it a fully functioning attraction like building construction or theming. You might be able to make the argument that two of them equal a big RMC, but definitely not three.
 
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RMCs are much cheaper than $22M, even ground-up ones. We know from the liens that were filed that Iron Gwazi cost between $9 and $10 million in terms of actual payment to RMC. A conversion saves money by reusing some of the existing foundations, which is why conversions are attractive to budget-conscious chains like Six Flags. But the site prep and footers for AF1 absolutely did not cost $10M+. That's typically a much smaller number unless massive terraforming needs to happen.
The accumulated cost on ArieForce One is $18m. It looks like initially they were quoted at $13m per this article here just for the ride itself. I would be willing to bet the 220 foot RMC would have crossed $20m when all was said and done, maybe not for the ride hardware alone but project cost wise absolutely especially considering the additional steel cost.
There's a lot of overblown hype around "package deals" in this industry. Yes, they exist - typically in the form of saved engineering costs, especially if you're reusing an existing layout and structure that doesn't need to be recalculated. Think Jersey Devil at Great Adventure and Wonder Woman at Magic Mountain, which are identical except for the ending, brakes and station area, so minimal rework. But three separate and unique attractions, each requiring their own complete engineering work, aren't going to be bundled together for 25% off. Any discounts the manufacturer offers in a situation like this will be much, much smaller, and pretty negligible compared to the larger financial issues facing SEAS that you mentioned.
What is your basis for "a lot of overblown hype around "package deals?"" sure you described their financial impact as negligible (which is subjective, materiality varies at every business) but that doesn't mean it doesn't play into the mind of businessmen making that decision. We're talking about SEAS which has a more significant track record buying package deals than chains like Cedar Fair, In the last 5 years we've seen 3 S&S Screamin Swings, and 3 Intamin Straddle coasters alone in the chain. Regardless there's not proof of a package deal, but there is B&M is marketing these things to SEAS whether that is with a package deal or not. Even if it's as negligible as buy 2 get a 3rd 10% off. 10% of $8m is $800,000 which is a lot of damn cash to not end up needing to spend on a new ride if a good deal is offered at any point.

All three of the SEAS rides require new site prep and foundations, so you aren't saving any money there like you do with a RMC conversion. Each one is going to cost a minimum of $5-7 million to B&M, maybe more, plus site work and footers, plus whatever else needs to happen to make it a fully functioning attraction like building construction or theming. You might be able to make the argument that two of them equal a big RMC, but definitely not three.
You can absolutely make that argument on all kinds of variables (location, supplies, size, etc.) but given that the bids on these are confidential and none of us work for SEAS we don't know the final project cost but I can absolutely see where 3 family coasters can equate to less $20m. Probably harder for B&M than other manufacturers admittedly.
 
Looking back (and obviously the pandemic had a lot, if not everything to do with this) it's crazy that Drachen Spire never happened. With how closely it was tied in development to Pantheon, I remember we reached a point where we were actually expecting construction mobilization and potentially even track to start showing up any day, and it just never did. It had to have come as close as it possibly could to happening without ever getting green lit.
 
Great write up. Loved the article!

I'll have to admit, it does have a BBW homage feel to it. Double lifts, lots of back and forth turns to give it a swinging feel (if it doesn't swing on its own), village scene, etc.

I do wish they didn't make this woodsman a dragon slayer.
 
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Allow me to introduce Der Holzfäller:

Zachary, Nicole, and all the others that put the robust article together on the 2025 project deserve a huge shout out & thank you. I’m always amazed at the details you provide for all of us on this site. Thank you, thank you!

The news is quite disappointing in terms of the short family coaster model that SEAS has picked for 2025. I need time to process all this but I’ll be back for my thoughts soon.
 
Great read. Thanks to all that contributed. Really feels like a lot of the air left the room end of the day. I hope it's a cool ride which it does look like something I'd ride as often as DarKoaster, maybe more. I hope they go with that silver bullet turn at the end! I loved that at Knotts!

Big Bad Wolf is credit #2 for me so with time I imagine I will gain soft spot for this thing. Also did NOT expect 2-3 months ago that we would have 6 B&Ms in Virginia. Just jumped right over 5.
 
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Beautiful article as always guys, may have shed a tear in there a few times. Thanks to all the hours y'all took putting it together. Really does feel like the end of an era, especially since I just moved out of the area this feel like a book close on a part of my life following BGW leaks and construction. From being an inch to short to ride BBW the month it closed, the verobolten rumors and construction, the glorified flat ride, to the crazy Madrid saga it really has been a crazy ride and while the end is not what I expected. Its the journey not the destination. Thank you guys for all the hard worked over the years and now go take a long break y’all deserve it!!
 
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