Project 2025/Holzfäller: Big Bad Wolf 2 (B&M Family Invert)

[Jake Coasters]

Regardless of whether it is a great family coaster with immersive theming that fills a height niche, the location is a complete mystery. It can be a great project and still be terribly located within the park.

If theories are correct and this is a fun little family coaster, then BGW has used a huge plot of land, which could have been saved for something enormous that would pull people in and drive attendance, on an attraction that won’t even be visible from most of the park.

I, personally, find incomprehensible decisions like this frustrating to watch unfold. It isn’t about what I want to ride, it is about the park undermining itself and throwing away huge opportunities.

It would be unfortunate to lose such a valuable (and infamously iconic) piece of land at the hands of a lower cost model and industry trends

 

[BGWfan]

This area with the exit(?) ramp and the way the footers are placed around it and under it is making me question everything. Can't make sense of it. Excited for the people who are better at this to reveal their findings.

 

[horsesboy]

Just a reminder Drachen Fire's old footers are still three just buried and some of what you see on this map MAY represent them.

 

[Coaster Takes]

Just a reminder Drachen Fire's old footers are still three just buried and some of what you see on this map MAY represent them.

All of the layouts so far drawn up by people don’t utilize any of Drachen Fire’s old footers. When cross referenced with the existing area plans, none of them match up.

 

[Seaworld History]

Maybe, they just shouldn’t build a coaster at all. Put the worlds largest.. errr.. bar there or something?

Also weren’t y’all just complaining the natural beauty of the park was being ruined? Isn’t the local government SUPER strict on what they can build? Maybe just MAYBE. It might look like a family coaster but isn’t? What if, idk, y’all took a breath and just realized parks don’t have to cater to enthusiasts every single new addition? While Nichole and Jake are 100% correct on it being on the wrong plot of land. I don’t get this jumping to conclusions over permits thing, we can do what when we actually decipher the layout.
(I’ll be happy to be proven wrong too)

 

[rswashdc]

If you look at BGWs regional competition, a more family oriented coaster makes sense. KD and HP are way ahead of BGW in that department, whereas another big thrill ride probably doesn't move the needle much at all.

 

[Fenrihr]

I'm thinking it's not an invert. The footers don't look far enough apart in a lot of places to allow the train to pass between them. also, the Lift hill footer placement doesn't seem to allow for the train to be under the track. (There are a line of footers that look to be directly under the lift, with side supports to the left at the beginning, and the right as it continues to climb.)

I'm getting the idea it'll be a family B&M like Penguin Trek, though I would LOVE to be proven wrong.

But, of course, these are just my opinions and thoughts.

edit: The initial drop seems to go under the final brake, but I'm at a loss beyond that. I'm not a pro at this.

 

[CoasterAuditor]

Oh man I had this crazy nightmare where our Iron Gwazi sister was scrapped for a Phoenix Rising sister…..could you guys imagine? Hahaha how absurd of a project pivot.

*reads previous posts*

 

[CoastersRUS]

I really think the root problem of everything around here is people get absolute tunnel vision, and will not consider another option. Everybody on here wants to play civil engineer and try to guess what a ride is about to be by using dots on the ground.
We all know the people in corporate don’t make the best decisions, but they aren’t the only people that have input on this. People at Park level that care about this place immensely have a lot more input than you think on projects like this. If they didn’t, LNM would be opening with the same track next year as it did this year. This forum has all kinds of problems with Darkoaster, but you know what it is? A success for the park. Any ride that gets added that can drive sales, has reasonable reliability, has reasonable capacity, and the general guest enjoy will be a success in this space. A successful attraction is in the interest of everyone. We want Drachen Fire 2, but if it has the same problems as Drachen Fire what’s even the point?

 

[CoasterMac]

Everybody on here wants to play civil engineer and try to guess what a ride is about to be by using dots on the ground.

Yes, we do. Respectfully, just because you can’t tell what the squiggles & squares & circles mean (or you don’t want to see what it shows), doesn’t mean others can’t tell.

It turned out pretty damn well for us on Penguin Trek.

 

[CoastersRUS]

Yes, we do. Just because you can’t tell, doesn’t mean others can’t.

It turned out pretty damn well for us on Penguin Trek.

Yes, and the people that can are actually quietly hashing it out and noticeably not here. We’re just all yelling at clouds. I’m just saying everyone needs to stop jumping to conclusions over one map.

 

[Backorack]

What if it’s a custom layout from Premier like Icebreaker? The lap bars could set it apart from Tempesto.

 

[SLC Headache]

I will join in your frustration over another family ride, if this (and Phoenix Rising) are just stiff-mount inverts, and especially if this is another 48" minimum. The only way I would be happy with another launch is if it's on par with Big Bear Mountain in terms of both ride quality and minimum rider height.

This is blocking off expansion past Festhaus Park the same way I305 cut off KD's former Lion County Safari land, right?

 

[Zachary]

Busch Gardens Williamsburg hasn't built anything on Drachen Fire's plot for nearly 25 years for a good reason. The site is both huge and remote. Even a coaster the size of Drachen Fire struggled to draw guests back to this incredibly out-of-the-way corner of BGW. To dare touch this storied region of the park with anything but a huge icon of an attraction (and preferably a hamlet to accompany it) has long been unthinkable. BGW fought for and was approved to build a 315ft tall full-circuit giga here. That fell apart. BGW fought for and was approved to build a 355 foot shuttle giga here. SEAS, armed with the blunt force hammer of COVID, killed it in the crib. BGW commissioned the design of a huge, record breaking RMC hyper hybrid for this plot and then SEAS declined to purchase it.

The story of the land is clear—it has always been destined for a truly monumental guest magnet—something people can see from all over the park—something people can see from outside of the park—something that people HAVE to experience when they travel out to the park. That's how you integrate this remote and legendary land back into Busch Gardens Williamsburg.

Project Madrid had its enormous, unique, figure-8 top hat with a dive down to the Rhine. Drachen Spire had its insane spiral spike that looked like a work of architectural and structural fiction. Project 2024 had an enormous 220ft tall RMC lift truss towering over this entire region of the park.

Utilizing any of this site, at least initially, for anything less than those would be a mistake. Utilizing a significant portion of this site for anything less than an icon would be a horrible scar on the park's layout and future expansion opportunities for decades to come. Utilizing a substantial portion of this site for anything less than the park's largest investment ever without taking care to preserve the ability to build that next Loch Ness Monster-level park icon on the site in the future should be a crime.

It feels to me like some crimes may have been committed here.

 

[CoasterAuditor]

Yes, and the people that can are actually quietly hashing it out and noticeably not here. We’re just all yelling at clouds. I’m just saying everyone needs to stop jumping to conclusions over one map.

Most of them are liking and replying to posts on here suggesting that our interpretation of the situation was fairly, albeit painfully accurate. The reason we are jumping to conclusions is because the site plan is in effect, the actual plans and you can build conclusions off of it with the proper skills. This is how we knew the layout of Pantheon, Pipeline, and Penquin Trek in advance.

Trust me I don't want to let go of the giant RMC either and a part of me is clinging desperately to something I feel almost certain is not happening now. This leaves me feeling resentful of B&M and SEAS. B&M probably (hypothetically) was like "hey SEAS you really seem to have a height requirement issue in your parks lets bring our family models to the US and get them widespread for a nice bargain for you" SEAS: "YES!" BGW: "We already have this proj" SEAS: "You're fired person speaking on BGWs behalf."

 

[warfelg]

I just can't get past this thought that they are really really royally fucking up the future of the park with a family coaster. A family coaster where there's 2 others already. A family coaster in their major last expansion spot.

It basically means to means to me to give up hope of any major thrill coasters. Give up hope for a giga at BGW. Pretty much give up hope of an RMC.

Personally - I hope we're wrong with this speculation and there's something more to the plans that are missing right now.

 

[richmondrider]

BGW commissioned the design of a huge, record breaking RMC hyper hybrid for this plot and then SEAS declined to purchase it.

I know you can't reveal your sources, but is this well known/confirmed or speculation? The rumors have been out there but never saw it materially.

 

[BGWfan]

If it's a family coaster as I speculate, I agree the biggest disappointment is the use of this premier real estate for it. I have no problem with another family coaster at BGW, it's a good fit for the park. But on this land? It would feel plopped there because nothing else got approved by Corporate.
Are there any other tracts of land that could support a major thrill coaster besides this?

I would be less critical if they were adding a small hamlet with additional flat rides and shops/food PLUS a family coaster, but from the plans it appears to just be this ride with not much thought given to expansion of the area (which I would argue is needed to draw guests back there).

 

[CoastersRUS]

Most of them are liking and replying to posts on here suggesting that our interpretation of the situation was fairly, albeit painfully accurate. The reason we are jumping to conclusions is because the site plan is in effect, the actual plans and you can build conclusions off of it with the proper skills. This is how we knew the layout of Pantheon, Pipeline, and Penquin Trek in advance.

Trust me I don't want to let go of the giant RMC either and a part of me is clinging desperately to something I feel almost certain is not happening now. This leaves me feeling resentful of B&M and SEAS. B&M probably (hypothetically) was like "hey SEAS you really seem to have a height requirement issue in your parks lets bring our family models to the US and get them widespread for a nice bargain for you" SEAS: "YES!" BGW: "We already have this proj" SEAS: "You're fired person speaking on BGWs behalf."

Deep down, I know you’re probably right and this is just me coping

 

[CoastersRUS]

Are there any other tracts of land that could support a major thrill coaster besides this?

There’s still the enormous plot on the other side of the Rhine but that would require another bridge to get to. Who knows when or if that would ever happen.