Project 2025/Caldera: Rapterra (Launched B&M Wing Coaster)

Register or Login to Hide This Ad for Free!
Status
Not open for further replies.
DECoasterGuy said:
What are twisted Timbers, delirium, and Jungle X if not significant investments?
Click to expand...
Twisted Timbers is a recycle job, flat rides with spotty records of being open aren’t overly impressive, and Jungle X, while a step in the right direction, is mostly lipstick, unless you count Tumbili, an offAthe-shelf replacement for a removed flat.

The last real investment was I-305. Previous ownership regimes had a much more impressive record of investment in the Park, and pretending otherwise is disingenuous.

cschnizer said:
There’s literally surveying going on at the Volcano site. Proposed excavation flags are in place, which I doubt would be to mark a “trash heap.” Plenty of us would take pavers over the eye-sore of asphalt. If JX is included in the “lipstick upgrades,” that’s just abhorrent. The retheme is actually quite meaningful for the park as it’s on an area that needs it most, with signs of more of it on the way. Other Cedar Fair parks are following in KD’s footsteps with this, and from what I’ve heard it’s been very successful.
Click to expand...
They took the most themed area of the park, that of a jungle safari, and rethemed it to… jungle..safari…… I’m grateful for the facelift, but it’s just that- a cosmetic procedure to offer the appearance of something new without actually making something new.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Dislike
  • Eye-Roll
  • Like
Reactions: lightninlady, Intimidator325, Riboflavenus and 6 others
jwranson said:
They took the most themed area of th park, that if a jungle safari, and tethered it to… jungle..safari…… I’m grateful for the facelift, but it’s just that- a cosmetic procedure to offer the appearance of something new without actually making something new.
Click to expand...
I take it over those random animal statues (that served more as photo ops than actual theming), the dirty white paint job of Avalanche, and the unappealing silver and blue color scheme of Scrambler. The theming is unlike anything I've ever seen Kings Dominion do as long as it's been owned by Cedar Fair. Public appearance is very important for amusement parks.

Back to Volcano though, what I want most out of a replacement attraction is to meet all these criteria:
  • Affordable
  • Reliable
  • Unique
  • Thrilling
  • High guest satisfaction (includes both GP AND enthusiasts)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chorizo, Intimidator325, SLC Headache and 1 other person
Jungle-X is more than a cosmetic makeover. They took an area that was decorated with safari stuff, and redid it with immersive theming.

There is a cohesive story that runs throughout the area, linking everything together with a complex lore. There are several characters and landmarks. There are integrated music and audio messages. The rides, restaurants, shops, and outdoor areas all fit into the overarching storyline. Even the Haunt scare zone plays into the area’s lore.

Perhaps @jwranson hasn’t spent a lot of time investigating the stories and characters explained throughout the area, and has only noticed the decorations. Or perhaps he doesn’t understand how much an overhaul like that costs.

Twisted Timbers is not a less significant investment just because the park chose use Hurler‘s existing structure. What RMC built was a fundamentally different ride, and required a similar investment to a new attraction. Moreover, according to Captain Coaster, it is currently ranked 16th worldwide.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lightninlady, Chorizo, Intimidator325 and 11 others
jwranson said:
I didn’t say it was shitty, don’t put words in my mouth.
Click to expand...
You did base it's value on your assessment of it being a recycle job but that goes against the logic building an RMC in the first place. They were made to be a low budget/low risk option for parks who wanted to revive wood coasters with low ridership. RMC's success far exceeded many expectations and it's influenced other manufacturers to retrack wooden roller coasters. Also have to mention that TT was part of the larger Candy Apple Grove retheme.

jwranson said:
The last real investment was I-305. Previous ownership regimes had a much more impressive record of investment in the Park, and pretending otherwise is disingenuous.
Click to expand...
I-305 was an engineering and maintenance nightmare. By the time they reworked the banked turn after the first drop and fixed its downtime issues it already had a reputation for being too much for the average rider. The low to medium ridership with a lack of substantial and sustained increase in attendance defies the makings of an meaningful investment. That's likely why KD avoided making high risk investments and it hasn't resulted in a major losses for the park.

To add injury to insult, I don't think Paramount's track record of major additions is much to write home about with respect to current times. Many of the attractions between 1994 and 2006 such as Hypersonic XLC, Volcano, Hurler, and FoF (now TT) no longer exist or have low ridership. Seems to me that Cedar Fair took its time playing the long game despite being a larger chain with more high priority parks than there were under Paramount's ownership. Kings Dominion is primed to get about 2 major attractions or maybe more alongside Jungle X-pedition, including Volcano's, potentially Anaconda's replacement, and a BLSC retheme before 2030.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coasternerd
I would be careful making claims about ridership, since only the park has those data.

In addition, as has been discussed elsewhere, i305’s lines are deceiving m because of it’s capacity.

Regardless, this thread has gotten way off topic.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Intimidator325 and Griffbolten
^^-- I agree, but FoF does tend to have the longest line in the park, so the sole remaining [large] Paramount addition hardly has low ridership.

jwranson said:
The last real investment was I-305. Previous ownership regimes had a much more impressive record of investment in the Park, and pretending otherwise is disingenuous.
Click to expand...
The last one of the largest investments in the park's history was I305. I believe the only larger ones were building the mountain and opening the park originally -- both before Paramount of course. I305 was the first year of a 5 year plan where it was the only coaster to be added.

I hadn't heard of Captain Coaster before Nicole's post, but that brings the total to 3 of Mitch Hawker style polls I've seen which have 3 parks with 2 coasters in the top 25 and one of those is KD, along with the likes of CP and Energylandia. And both coasters were added by CF.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Intimidator325, Coasternerd, Nicole and 1 other person
I mean if you go to KD on a very high volume day you will find I305s queue pretty full or extending out of the station. The ride is just tucked so far in the back, goes to the line buffet each cycle it’s very deceiving about its ridership. I recall a blog post a few years ago that had it in the top 3 or 4 for ridership (#1 was Dominator). I’ve seen that queue full to the brim in the past usually on Haunt Saturdays and you can check queue times for reported queue times on certain days which is very helpful when planning park visits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Intimidator325, SLC Headache, Coasternerd and 4 others
Nicole said:
Jungle-X is more than a cosmetic makeover. They took an area that was decorated with safari stuff, and redid it with immersive theming.

There is a cohesive story that runs throughout the area, linking everything together with a complex lore. There are several characters and landmarks. There are integrated music and audio messages. The rides, restaurants, shops, and outdoor areas all fit into the overarching storyline. Even the Haunt scare zone plays into the area’s lore.

Perhaps @jwranson hasn’t spent a lot of time investigating the stories and characters explained throughout the area, and has only noticed the decorations. Or perhaps he doesn’t understand how much an overhaul like that costs.

Twisted Timbers is not a less significant investment just because the park chose use Hurler‘s existing structure. What RMC built was a fundamentally different ride, and required a similar investment to a new attraction. Moreover, according to Captain Coaster, it is currently ranked 16th worldwide.
Click to expand...
I have spent plenty of time, I’m just not as impressed by that kind of thing as I used to be. You guys build up the “lore” like it’s something fantastic. It’s a way to make us think we’re getting stuff while Cedar Point and Knotts get the actual something’s and we get a few plaques with a few paragraphs of story.

The only real effort that was impressive in that area is Let’s Get Wild, which is a fantastic show, but it’s kind of silly that they have now shown that they can put on a show but they let the theater rot.
They want to push year round openings but they don’t open the one indoor coaster they have in the winter 🙄. Investing in dark rides and indoor shows would be a smart choice.

Cedar Fair has left me jaded. I grew up getting a new big thing every other year. It was KD would get something one year, BGW would the next. Rinse, repeat.

CF can’t even replace Volcano in a reasonable amount of time.They HAVE had the time. I’m tired of pretending that they give a damn and I’m tired of accepting scraps while other parks get the main course. I’m tired of pretending that things are as good now as they used to be. And I’m tired of you guys thinking that when someone doesn’t share your rosy point of view, you think they are wrong.

I recognize that they’ve made ancillary improvements. For the most part, the food is better, even though they can’t seem to keep a head chef. The pavers are obviously Better than asphalt, but that isn’t really something I’m going to get excited about, especially when the parking lot looks like a war zone.

The bottom line is that Cedar Fair has seemingly bitten off more than they can chew, and the evidence for that is that we are still speculating on what is going to replace a ride that closed down half a decade ago. But now we’ve gotten even more off topic, so I won’t derail with further responses.
 
  • Eye-Roll
  • Like
Reactions: Riboflavenus, horsesboy, panopticon31 and 1 other person
I'm BEYOND tired of people still thinking that Kings Dominion is "neglected" despite the area and ride revamps they got in recent years. Since 2010, they've added:
  • Two major flat rides (Windseeker and Delirium)
    • Four of the bigger parks also got Windseekers, so KD jumped on that bandwagon.
  • Two Planet Snoopy expansions
  • Two water park expansions (Paradise Plunge filled in the capsule drop slide gap)
    • Guess what parks also got something like Hurricane Heights after 2015? KI and CWinds, also a bandwagon effect.
  • An RMC steel hybrid conversion (Twisted Timbers)
  • An S&S 4D Free Spin (Tumbili) alongside a major area restoration (Jungle X-Pedition)
Meanwhile they've also done things in the 40th anniversary celebration like bringing back Candy Apple Grove and the singing mushrooms, and also repainted Anaconda. A few years later the ugly back half of the Grove with Hurler and Ricochet was rebranded into a more appealing section, along with Ricochet becoming Apple Zapple, when Twisted Timbers came along.

This may not be as much as what the higher tier parks like CP, KI, and CWinds got, but how does all this compare to what the smaller parks like Dorney, WoF, and MA have been getting from 2010 to 2022? Is it just the same? No. Are all these KD investments "neglect?" I don't think so. The truth is, Kings Dominion gets what they get for a reason - at least for now. They just don't produce the ROI anymore like they did in the past, and Busch is basically dominating the market. I bet that many people who think the park is "neglected" have little to no understanding about how theme park business works.

Back on the proper topic. As for the Volcano replacement, 2025 is what a lot of enthusiasts have been predicting, so I don't know why this would be "unreasonable." Covid may have influenced the delay of this project as well. Personally it's best for them to take their time in planning a worthy replacement and don't rush. If it's something great, it would be well worth waiting all these years. Would you REALLY want that too-short wing coaster that was leaked in 2019? I have some faith that whatever's going in there will be quite a dynamic attraction with high guest satisfaction. It would also be very climactic for it to be the last part of the Jungle X-Pedition additions.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Eye-Roll
Reactions: Griffbolten, Intimidator325, Riboflavenus and 2 others
Another thing was the age of the coaster wars, or going back further the original rise of theme parks. Everyone was growing faster back then. I think that parks in general are moving towards maintenance of their collections more than expansion; eventually new rides will be replacement as a form of maintenance. If they have arrived at the goal, now what?

I did hope that Volcano's untimely demise might spurn some hurry-up, but then also 2020 happened, so things aren't that slow yet. At the same time, there have been a lot of developments in coasters, choosing from what's available, tested and digested now could make a huge difference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coasternerd
Tacky3663 said:
Personally for me, the best replacement for Volcano, I think could be one of three things. Each of which involves a launch.

1. An F.L.Y. style Launched Vekoma Flying Coaster
2. Launched Vekoma Suspended Thrill Coaster
3. Launched B&M Wing Coaster
Click to expand...
I would be fine with two thirds of your suggestions
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Consider Donating to Hide This Ad