RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
This "my source is better than your source" shit should probably stop. Now.
This "my source is better than your source" shit should probably stop. Now.
Project 2022: Pantheon
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RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
Not exactly what I was implying but alright... I was just saying that I had contradicting info.
Pretzel Kaiser said:
Not exactly what I was implying but alright... I was just saying that I had contradicting info.
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
I believe that the problem we are seeing is that people are making assertions without backing their claims with either personal expertise or a reliable source.
Obviously, this is a very tricky problem. How do you demonstrate the validity of your information without revealing too much about your source?
In my experience, one solution is to show your evidence in private to a trusted third party, who has already earned a reputation for credible reporting. If that person declines to support you publicly, it might be worth looking for more, better evidence, and considering that your information isn't as good as you had hoped.
Unfortunately, continuing to assert confidence in your own position without any evidence backing you up only makes others trust you less. I would seriously regret seeing someone with the best of intentions tarnish his own reputation in this way.
I believe that the problem we are seeing is that people are making assertions without backing their claims with either personal expertise or a reliable source.
Obviously, this is a very tricky problem. How do you demonstrate the validity of your information without revealing too much about your source?
In my experience, one solution is to show your evidence in private to a trusted third party, who has already earned a reputation for credible reporting. If that person declines to support you publicly, it might be worth looking for more, better evidence, and considering that your information isn't as good as you had hoped.
Unfortunately, continuing to assert confidence in your own position without any evidence backing you up only makes others trust you less. I would seriously regret seeing someone with the best of intentions tarnish his own reputation in this way.
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
To quote Gaelic Storm, from the song "Johnny Tarr":
Even if you say it yourself, you wouldn't believe,
And I wouldn't trust a person like me, if I were you
I wasn't there, I swear I have an alibi
I heard it from a man who knows a fella who says it's true!
To quote Gaelic Storm, from the song "Johnny Tarr":
Even if you say it yourself, you wouldn't believe,
And I wouldn't trust a person like me, if I were you
I wasn't there, I swear I have an alibi
I heard it from a man who knows a fella who says it's true!
VB06Hokie
Mostly wit & sarcasm, but contributes occasionally
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
You might as well just say the person's name if you're going to provide that much evidence about who your source is. Anyone in the know could easily figure out who you're talking about.
MadridBot said:
You might as well just say the person's name if you're going to provide that much evidence about who your source is. Anyone in the know could easily figure out who you're talking about.
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
The flip-side of that is that if no one can identify him from that description, maybe he isn't being entirely truthful about his history/connections...
Not suggesting I know anything beyond what I've said here, but that's some important food for thought...
The flip-side of that is that if no one can identify him from that description, maybe he isn't being entirely truthful about his history/connections...
Not suggesting I know anything beyond what I've said here, but that's some important food for thought...
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
Just to be clear, is this trusted source a "contractor’s brother," a "contractor," or someone who "once" was a "contractor?"
Is he "working inside the station," or simply "visits the park everyday," or is he there to speak "with management" about this project?
MadridBot said:
MadridBot said:
MadridBot said:
MadridBot said:
MadridBot said:
MadridBot said:
Just to be clear, is this trusted source a "contractor’s brother," a "contractor," or someone who "once" was a "contractor?"
Is he "working inside the station," or simply "visits the park everyday," or is he there to speak "with management" about this project?
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
Might as well start bringing back the gladiator matches and settling this in an area for this is getting bloody.
Might as well start bringing back the gladiator matches and settling this in an area for this is getting bloody.
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
Nah, it's nothing personal. Speculation is fine.
But if you attach sources to the speculation, you're trying say you've got credible information. And over the last month, the credibility, consistency, an veracity of these "leaks" have been questionable at best; atypical of this site's reputation.
The admins have offered several times to help validate the information...which doesn't seem to be taking place, and then we get this:
The last straw of frustration for me was trying to establish credibility by inferring that Zachary agrees that all of this is accurate as they're both in the know....
Nah, it's nothing personal. Speculation is fine.
But if you attach sources to the speculation, you're trying say you've got credible information. And over the last month, the credibility, consistency, an veracity of these "leaks" have been questionable at best; atypical of this site's reputation.
The admins have offered several times to help validate the information...which doesn't seem to be taking place, and then we get this:
MadridBot said:
The last straw of frustration for me was trying to establish credibility by inferring that Zachary agrees that all of this is accurate as they're both in the know....
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
And to really make sure this is clear, I have spoken with MadridBot's source directly and have not been given anything that increases my confidence-level in the information even remotely. In fact, all it has done is increase my doubt in the source.
I hate having to address any of this publicly. I don't want to be involved with whatever is going on here because it is abundantly clear to me that something is very wrong with the information/its sourcing. I am worried that coming down on either side of this is going to come back and bite me in the ass. That said, without anything even slightly resembling evidence being offered by either party in question, it is far better for my reputation to wash my hands of this whole thing.
If MadridBot or his friend or whatever have any actual evidence, they are welcome to bring it to me. That said, until that happens, I will not be publicly addressing the information or its sourcing again.
On that note, moving forward, I'm not going to take kindly to my name being used as a seal of approval on something (read: this purported leak) I have most certainly not certified in any way, shape, or form.
And to really make sure this is clear, I have spoken with MadridBot's source directly and have not been given anything that increases my confidence-level in the information even remotely. In fact, all it has done is increase my doubt in the source.
I hate having to address any of this publicly. I don't want to be involved with whatever is going on here because it is abundantly clear to me that something is very wrong with the information/its sourcing. I am worried that coming down on either side of this is going to come back and bite me in the ass. That said, without anything even slightly resembling evidence being offered by either party in question, it is far better for my reputation to wash my hands of this whole thing.
If MadridBot or his friend or whatever have any actual evidence, they are welcome to bring it to me. That said, until that happens, I will not be publicly addressing the information or its sourcing again.
On that note, moving forward, I'm not going to take kindly to my name being used as a seal of approval on something (read: this purported leak) I have most certainly not certified in any way, shape, or form.
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
Perfect; thank you for the update.
If it's any consolation, I (and probably everyone) wouldn't take your hesitation to agree either way as any mark on your reputation.
1. If it turns out to be accurate and you don't confirm now, it's probably due to a need to protect the source, as has been noted many times.
2. If it turns out to be false and you don't confirm now, it's probably due to your earlier conditions not being met yet (being able to confirm one way or the other and ensure the source is protected).
Either way, it only further reinforces your reputation and that of the site. Which was my frustration, as for years, any sourced content here has been very reliable...so inferring a "seal of approval" detracts from that. If you, not just us, have continued doubt in the credibility of the source--that speaks volumes.
Perfect; thank you for the update.
If it's any consolation, I (and probably everyone) wouldn't take your hesitation to agree either way as any mark on your reputation.
1. If it turns out to be accurate and you don't confirm now, it's probably due to a need to protect the source, as has been noted many times.
2. If it turns out to be false and you don't confirm now, it's probably due to your earlier conditions not being met yet (being able to confirm one way or the other and ensure the source is protected).
Either way, it only further reinforces your reputation and that of the site. Which was my frustration, as for years, any sourced content here has been very reliable...so inferring a "seal of approval" detracts from that. If you, not just us, have continued doubt in the credibility of the source--that speaks volumes.
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
I'll say I know some other people who run a site much like this one. They worked hard to get the trust of people that do this work and release any information. They know if they tell anyone like Zachary or Nicole they will know best how to share that.
That said: There's only so many contractors that do work like this for amusement parks. It's a special type of work that gets done, and not one contractor would have enough information to know what exactly this is yet (IMO from experience). If there is a coaster, I would bet building, electrical, landscaping, possibly construction, would all likely only know what's going on with their part. Yes I do know one park, that at one time, was super secretive of their plans to the point of the people pouring footers didn't know anything else, they just knew where, how deep, and how many. Not saying BGW would ever get that crazy, but if they are looking to keep potential leaks to a minimum then they wouldn't share all the details with just one person.
Basically what I'm saying here....people like Nicole and Zachary are to be trusted for a reason. They've worked to cultivate relationships with the right people to get the information that they do.
All of this speculation is fun, but when permits, studies, heck FAA height waivers aren't done yet, there's still too much "unknown" to really buy into anything someone says that they have.
I'll say I know some other people who run a site much like this one. They worked hard to get the trust of people that do this work and release any information. They know if they tell anyone like Zachary or Nicole they will know best how to share that.
That said: There's only so many contractors that do work like this for amusement parks. It's a special type of work that gets done, and not one contractor would have enough information to know what exactly this is yet (IMO from experience). If there is a coaster, I would bet building, electrical, landscaping, possibly construction, would all likely only know what's going on with their part. Yes I do know one park, that at one time, was super secretive of their plans to the point of the people pouring footers didn't know anything else, they just knew where, how deep, and how many. Not saying BGW would ever get that crazy, but if they are looking to keep potential leaks to a minimum then they wouldn't share all the details with just one person.
Basically what I'm saying here....people like Nicole and Zachary are to be trusted for a reason. They've worked to cultivate relationships with the right people to get the information that they do.
All of this speculation is fun, but when permits, studies, heck FAA height waivers aren't done yet, there's still too much "unknown" to really buy into anything someone says that they have.
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
I will now restrict my postings in this forum, and validate any information I get. My posts will be much less reckless, and less condradictions and conflicts will start. Expect me to post very rarely, and when I do post, I'll make sure the information is as close to 100% true. I realize that this forum is supposed to be as reliable as possible, and I'll try to deliver as much validated information as possible.
I will now restrict my postings in this forum, and validate any information I get. My posts will be much less reckless, and less condradictions and conflicts will start. Expect me to post very rarely, and when I do post, I'll make sure the information is as close to 100% true. I realize that this forum is supposed to be as reliable as possible, and I'll try to deliver as much validated information as possible.
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
I've been keeping up with this thread for weeks now and I can say I'm both disappointed and ecstatic that this thread exists in the way that it does. It's both absurdly entertaining and entertainingly absurd.
That being said, I guess I'll chime in with my two cents. I know nothing about permits and what all goes into this kind of thing so I won't speak on that, but like most of you, I'm hesitant to believe MadridBot. He's had plenty of opportunities to provide proof of the validity of his sources and has failed to do so and thus, I'm leaning on this being a bunch of nonsensical trolling.
That being said, if I come out and say I'm not buying it and this guy turns out to be exactly right about everything, I'm going to feel super turbo stupid when he comes back saying "I told you so."
So, I'm sticking with my typical strategy in life of not taking a side until I know what's 100% correct and then saying that's what I believed all along. That's my plan and I'm sticking to it. Fite me irl.
I've been keeping up with this thread for weeks now and I can say I'm both disappointed and ecstatic that this thread exists in the way that it does. It's both absurdly entertaining and entertainingly absurd.
That being said, I guess I'll chime in with my two cents. I know nothing about permits and what all goes into this kind of thing so I won't speak on that, but like most of you, I'm hesitant to believe MadridBot. He's had plenty of opportunities to provide proof of the validity of his sources and has failed to do so and thus, I'm leaning on this being a bunch of nonsensical trolling.
That being said, if I come out and say I'm not buying it and this guy turns out to be exactly right about everything, I'm going to feel super turbo stupid when he comes back saying "I told you so."
So, I'm sticking with my typical strategy in life of not taking a side until I know what's 100% correct and then saying that's what I believed all along. That's my plan and I'm sticking to it. Fite me irl.
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
MadridBot isn't trolling. We've spoken a considerable amount behind the scenes and he seems like a fairly a good guy. Hell, see how well he is taking all of this critique?
From what I can tell, he has been told everything he has been posting by this person he knows. I don't agree with his sharing while lacking verification, but that is very different issue than being driven by some desire to troll or harm the forum. As far as I can see, that is not at all his intent.
Lets try not to conflate MadridBot's intentions with those of the person he has been speaking to. MadridBot is the messenger here—lets focus on the source—it is his story that seems... fluid.
Rhaw757 said:
MadridBot isn't trolling. We've spoken a considerable amount behind the scenes and he seems like a fairly a good guy. Hell, see how well he is taking all of this critique?
From what I can tell, he has been told everything he has been posting by this person he knows. I don't agree with his sharing while lacking verification, but that is very different issue than being driven by some desire to troll or harm the forum. As far as I can see, that is not at all his intent.
Lets try not to conflate MadridBot's intentions with those of the person he has been speaking to. MadridBot is the messenger here—lets focus on the source—it is his story that seems... fluid.
RE: Project Madrid: New Hamlet? Giga Coaster? 315' Tower?
Are we coming up on the date of the FAA Height Waiver (hopefully) being passed? If feels like we should be coming up on that. If BGW really is planning on moving that fast with a ride plan, then I think soon after the FAA Waiver goes through we should see permits/studies for some of the early work.
Just some early research, I think what we would see is environmental impact study submitted, then a few weeks break before permits for utilities. At that point things should start to get filed fast and furiously.
Are we coming up on the date of the FAA Height Waiver (hopefully) being passed? If feels like we should be coming up on that. If BGW really is planning on moving that fast with a ride plan, then I think soon after the FAA Waiver goes through we should see permits/studies for some of the early work.
Just some early research, I think what we would see is environmental impact study submitted, then a few weeks break before permits for utilities. At that point things should start to get filed fast and furiously.
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