Project 2022: Pantheon
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What's your point? You named three recently added rides, called them cheap additions because the theming is poor. Which btw Tempesto and Invadr may not have great theming but it's better than Apollo's and Griffon's. And Finnegan's isn't even done yet.
Yes the park is supposed to be themed, and the park should strive to do better than what it has. But ultimately you can't sit there and call these rides cheap when you have Apollo with a circus tent for a queue, sitting next to Tempesto which was sorta aiming for the circus gimmick vibe, and got half way there with it's limited space.
We, as in us on the forum, don't have the plans fully available to us to even judge this ride yet. We don't know what the theming will be like. And even if the theming is poor, if the coaster is good are we gonna care nearly as much? Judging by Apollo, we're really not. We'll cry about it for like a week, and then move on with our lives and talk about how great the ride is. The ride itself should be the deciding factor if it's good or not. Theming just helps.
I agree with that last part. I’m just saying that they have themed rides too.
@Applesauce I agree....and disagree. Lol. Theming itself is not going to make a bad ride good. And, as you pointed out, Apollo is lacking theming but it's still a great ride. Then again, so are some rides at a Fair. But, to me, I look for total immersion. Back in the day, when you walked into Oktoberfest you were in Oktoberfest!
A ride/park designer said "they work make sure that rides' stories unfold in ways that engage visitors as deeply as possible". Theming immerses you into the story as is done in Alpengeist. The g-forces would be the same without the theming...but, darn it, I'm riding a runaway ski lift!
Yes, we haven't a clue what they'll do yet. Hopefully the plan renderings are very preliminary. I just don't want to see a "parking lot coaster" in the middle of a field.
A ride/park designer said "they work make sure that rides' stories unfold in ways that engage visitors as deeply as possible". Theming immerses you into the story as is done in Alpengeist. The g-forces would be the same without the theming...but, darn it, I'm riding a runaway ski lift!
Yes, we haven't a clue what they'll do yet. Hopefully the plan renderings are very preliminary. I just don't want to see a "parking lot coaster" in the middle of a field.
4 of their last 5 coasters have extensive themeing
SEAS voluntarily adheres to all AZA requirements for their animals and is AZA accredited. They wouldn't do anything to harm the animals. Also not sure what actions you feel specifically that BGW has done but from my perspective BGW and SEAS have actually been working at improving their animal care.
Am I really the only person who likes Griffon's theming? It's mean to be a Griffon who is terrorizing a French village that why the queue house is shaped like a group of houses.
It's why I included the part about the park should be striving to do better than what they have. The theming hasn't been great and has been half assed, but it's not nothing either. Griffon you walk into a broken Stone House? What does that have to do with griffins? Invadr having some resemblance to an invasion isn't great but it's not bad either. And I'll just flat out say it, people will throw Nessie into the debate. And the most themed part of Nessie is it's extended queue, which 90% of the time you don't even enter. You got some switch backs and a hallway and station. None of these things are themed very well if at all, and Nessie is one of the oldest rides in the park. But Nessie is unique which makes her great.
So I 100% get where you're coming from, and I do want them to be better. I, too, don't want a parking lot coaster. But hey if it does more than Griffon or Apollo in terms of theming I'm gonna ultimately be okay with the end result. (Because honestly my bar for the park is so low at this point, all they gotta do is step over it and I'll be impressed.)
I hope you don’t consider Steel Vengeance, Twisted Timbers, and Hangtime extensive theming
Haha, don't get me started on Nessie! And I had to ask here on the forums what was the story behind Invadr.
It regardless, we've raised the bar to new heights! Such as the (maybe) 200ft. spike (just a seg. for all the folks that want to talk about how tall and fast this coaster will be). ?
It regardless, we've raised the bar to new heights! Such as the (maybe) 200ft. spike (just a seg. for all the folks that want to talk about how tall and fast this coaster will be). ?
You do realize that Dollywood isn't a Cedar Fair park right?
To get back on topic. I'll reserve any judgement on it's theming until the ride is open to the public. Until then it's all hypothetical. Personally I am hopeful that we will see some theming that is in between Verbolten and Invadr at the least.
Edit: grammar fix and some clarification
So, I may be the only one, but I am completely lost. There are several posts here with pronouns with no antecedents. I have no idea from comment to comment who "they" is. Could y'all make an effort to be more clear in your comments? I certainly had no idea that @madmax was referring to Caro, since several parks and rides have been mentioned in this discussion.
As for theming at BGW, I too am becoming more and more concerned. It seems to have taken a backseat, which strikes me as a problem at a theme park. In my opinion, every major ride should have a fully-fleshed out and integrated back story. The name, decorations, signage, color scheme, etc should all flow from that narrative.
At the recent media day I didn’t get the sense that they were investing much intellectual energy into the theming. I hope I am wrong, but I am very worried that MMXX will be loosely "Roman" with little else to differentiate it from every other big, steel coaster in the field.
As for theming at BGW, I too am becoming more and more concerned. It seems to have taken a backseat, which strikes me as a problem at a theme park. In my opinion, every major ride should have a fully-fleshed out and integrated back story. The name, decorations, signage, color scheme, etc should all flow from that narrative.
At the recent media day I didn’t get the sense that they were investing much intellectual energy into the theming. I hope I am wrong, but I am very worried that MMXX will be loosely "Roman" with little else to differentiate it from every other big, steel coaster in the field.
Edit: @Nicole sorta beat me to part of it but I'll post anyway... (Edit again, this time for @GrandpaD... ?)
I don't actually think the core problem with BGW's theming right now is financial. I think it's pure laziness.
The park put a lot of money into theming for InvadR and what do we have to show for it? Easily one of the biggest thematic atrocities Busch Gardens Williamsburg has ever inflicted upon its guests. Similarly, a bizarre amount of work and investment went into theming for Tempesto, but the concept behind its theme is so mind-blowingly braindead that the finished product is trashy, generic, and wholly uninspired.
Coming off of those two projects, it seems that Busch Gardens Williamsburg has just opted to throw in the towel. The execution of Finnigan's Flyer looks poor, but that's not the root of the issue. A lot can be done with a little passion and creativity, but neither of those qualities seem to have been at all involved with the development of Finnigan's. Finnigan's Flyer is legitimately themed to nothing.
Lastly, there's another intricacy that I don't think people are picking up on here...
Busch Gardens Williamsburg has a depressingly long and prosperous history of putting in attractions that are, to put it simply, not themed. That said, what Busch Gardens Williamsburg does not have a long history of doing is inserting unthemed rides into otherwise heavily themed areas. That is another of the core issues with Finnigan's.
If FF was located out in the middle of a field like Project 2020 is going to be, people wouldn't be anywhere near as unhappy with the addition as they are right now. Finnigan's actively destroys the atmosphere and theme of one of Busch Gardens Williamsburg's heavier-themed hamlets. Previous un-themed attractions like Mach Tower and Wild Maus did not dare invade Aquitaine, Banbury, Heatherdowns, Killarney, or Rhinefeld because those are areas of the park that are legitimate works of art.
No one really wants a shitty piece of artwork lacking any passion or direction (Finnigan's Flyer) displayed in the same gallery (Busch Gardens Williamsburg) as an original Monet (Alpengeist). That said, I think everyone can stomach those pieces sharing a gallery a lot easier than the lazy, disinterested artist inserting their crappy creation into a well-established, respected masterpiece (Killarney).
I don't actually think the core problem with BGW's theming right now is financial. I think it's pure laziness.
The park put a lot of money into theming for InvadR and what do we have to show for it? Easily one of the biggest thematic atrocities Busch Gardens Williamsburg has ever inflicted upon its guests. Similarly, a bizarre amount of work and investment went into theming for Tempesto, but the concept behind its theme is so mind-blowingly braindead that the finished product is trashy, generic, and wholly uninspired.
Coming off of those two projects, it seems that Busch Gardens Williamsburg has just opted to throw in the towel. The execution of Finnigan's Flyer looks poor, but that's not the root of the issue. A lot can be done with a little passion and creativity, but neither of those qualities seem to have been at all involved with the development of Finnigan's. Finnigan's Flyer is legitimately themed to nothing.
Lastly, there's another intricacy that I don't think people are picking up on here...
Busch Gardens Williamsburg has a depressingly long and prosperous history of putting in attractions that are, to put it simply, not themed. That said, what Busch Gardens Williamsburg does not have a long history of doing is inserting unthemed rides into otherwise heavily themed areas. That is another of the core issues with Finnigan's.
If FF was located out in the middle of a field like Project 2020 is going to be, people wouldn't be anywhere near as unhappy with the addition as they are right now. Finnigan's actively destroys the atmosphere and theme of one of Busch Gardens Williamsburg's heavier-themed hamlets. Previous un-themed attractions like Mach Tower and Wild Maus did not dare invade Aquitaine, Banbury, Heatherdowns, Killarney, or Rhinefeld because those are areas of the park that are legitimate works of art.
No one really wants a shitty piece of artwork lacking any passion or direction (Finnigan's Flyer) displayed in the same gallery (Busch Gardens Williamsburg) as an original Monet (Alpengeist). That said, I think everyone can stomach those pieces sharing a gallery a lot easier than the lazy, disinterested artist inserting their crappy creation into a well-established, respected masterpiece (Killarney).
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In all respect Nessie doesnt exactly follow a cohesive story either as the sea exploration is pretty much gone after the first part of the queue and a roar in the generic stone tunnel. I agree FF is horrid though.
You made an amazing point right there. I personally have no problem with Apollo's themeing because its supposed to be at a fair. Yes, its a huge undertaking to set that up at a fair, but regardless, the extended queue/queue house seem very temporary. Griffon's thematic elements are passable, to me, because its to be terrorizing a village. Yes the argument could be made that MMXX is part of that fair, and should have that feel, but being over the train tracks behind a hill removes it from that. That is why I really hope and expect it to have its own mini-village, which by the leaked plans, appears to not be happening.
100% agree with this. Yes, the company isn't as financially fit as they'd like to be. However, they can afford a few million to set the scene.
IMHO BGW from the past ten years I've been going has never been immersive per say. The buildings have always been a bit flat compared to European park theming (other than Killarney which is pure nut stimulation), so theming has never been the biggest deal for me at this park.
Also unless I'm missing something we have no theming evidence and the doc on BGW fans could be the frame of the station similar to the way some think the train is just a quick render and will have comfort collars
Also unless I'm missing something we have no theming evidence and the doc on BGW fans could be the frame of the station similar to the way some think the train is just a quick render and will have comfort collars
Developing a backstory is essentially free, since they can employ their existing staff for it.
I, personally, could forgive a lot of cost-cutting, if they were able to weave a clever tale that was clearly the source of the name and color scheme and whatnot.
In the case of MMXX, they need to work out a story that incorporates the unavoidable environmental issues, like the service road. I have been able to come up two stories that would work, without much effort.
I, personally, could forgive a lot of cost-cutting, if they were able to weave a clever tale that was clearly the source of the name and color scheme and whatnot.
In the case of MMXX, they need to work out a story that incorporates the unavoidable environmental issues, like the service road. I have been able to come up two stories that would work, without much effort.
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