Project 2019

[warfelg]

You and me both, friend.

I've always wondered if they would be willing to spend the money would they move all the back of the house facilities over by the Catering Pavilions so they could use that area for expansion to actually balance out the park rides wise. The park is already badly painted in a corner with how things are placed now, and moving the North half of Soak City into the South Side and relocating all the Park Facilities to the other side of the park would free up a lot of space for future expansion.

The downsides there is (1) the expense and (2) redoing backstage areas.

I think that would also show that CF is going to push KD into a higher level park within their organization. Would they risk that with Carowinds just down the road? I think that just the opening of the Dino land, and opening up space by racer with moving the North Soak City to the South Soak City. That's enough space for now. They just need 'more weight' in the Old Virginia area to pull into that area.

 

[mtorange]

Am I the only one worried that KD is getting nothing for 2019 at this point? I find it very odd that we haven’t heard ANYTHING from the park, especially after Busch Gardens’ announcement tonight.

 

[b.mac]

Am I the only one worried that KD is getting nothing for 2019 at this point? I find it very odd that we haven’t heard ANYTHING from the park, especially after Busch Gardens’ announcement tonight.

Haven't you heard? The new big thing for the Cedar Fair parks are large shiny restaurants that don't actually improve the food offerings and justify the outrageous prices for a basket of chicken tenders.

Kings Dominion had its 5 seconds of attention, time for it to go back to its spot alongside Dorney, Valleyfair, and Worlds of Fun.

 

[CrosshairsKD]

Haven't you heard? The new big thing for the Cedar Fair parks are large shiny restaurants that don't actually improve the food offerings and justify the outrageous prices for a basket of chicken tenders.

Kings Dominion had its 5 seconds of attention, time for it to go back to its spot alongside Dorney, Valleyfair, and Worlds of Fun.

At least Kings Dominion gets treated better than these 3 parks. Just saying.

 

[b.mac]

At least Kings Dominion gets treated better than these 3 parks. Just saying.

That's a matter of opinion without much of a glance into how the other parks perform and what they've received in the past 10 years.

KD and Dorney have nearly the same performance in terms of gross earnings per year and Dorney Park does not have a major market draw like a giga coaster. Kings Dominion also does not have to contend with a local population that does not want the park to build major rides due to concerns about noise and traffic. Most of Dorney's development has been stifled because of that, not because Cedar Fair has tried and seen the park fail to growon multiple occasions like with KD.

Kings Dominion is a large, small park. Do not think they're some magical, major regional theme park. For a park of its size (in terms of rides) it barely pulls half of what Hersheypark and Great Adventure do (And GAdv counts its water park separately in its earning statements and attendance figures) and has always been the second from the bottom in the area among its competition.

Valleyfair also has little space left to develop (their property is only 125 acres) and they're trying to fix that by relocating their employee access area, and have to contend with an environmental concern due to swamps in the area and being near the Minnesota River.

Worlds of Fun has to contend with Kansas City locals trying to stop them building anything just like Dorney does, and yet they still got a Winterfest event before KD did. Hell, Six Flags America got a winter event before KD did.

A restaurant for KD next year will be a blessing considering what the park has gotten since the Cedar Fair buyout outside of i305. Twisted Timbers was a lucky addition because they shut down Hurler for whatever (very likely legit) reason. They could've torn it out like Shockwave and replaced it with a tepid, overpriced flat ride.

 

[Shane]

After having visited Dorney, World of Fun, and Valleyfair last year I have to agree with Bmac. The parks were quite crowded. I think out of the three mentioned, World's of Fun has the most room for major additions and probably has the most tree coverage I've ever seen at b Cedar Fair park. Valleyfair is bursting at the seams as far as attraction locations are concerned. The park has been quite creative in attraction placement here. I'm hopful they all get a coaster in the near future. I don't think KD needs a new ride right now after Twisted Timbers; that being said they're doing some kind of site work and that's got to be for something, what I dont know.

 

[b.mac]

...that being said they're doing some kind of site work and that's got to be for something, what I dont know.

They're making infrastructure updates in Candy Apple Grove and Int'l Street for Winterfest and have just recently finished turning Tornado into a grass area. I'm not aware of any other site work that is going on in the park. Dinosaurs Alive at least will be a quick and easy removal, but unless they want to strip Grizzly of the rest of its seclusion I doubt they're going to use the space immediately.

 

[warfelg]

As a long time Central PA resident:
Dorsey is stuck.

IMO they have the best B&M sit down(hydra), the best B&M invert (talon), and a classic arrow hyper (steel force). What they lack is a “starter steel” coaster (lost it when Laser was removed) and a modern Woodie.

But Hershey and Six Flag are both there, and they have those things. And they are both bigger.

KD doesn’t fight that. CW is far enough away that it doesn’t have the same impact on it as SF/Hershey does on Dorney.

And it speaks to my big issue with CF all along. They lack good mid-tier parks IMO. I think giving KD I-305 while promoting CarW as a flagship was very mixed signals. Especially since you can’t do a hyper for KD now. You jumped that. Giving it a hyper now puts it almost on par with CarW.

One of the few places KD can go now with a coaster and not be on CarWs toes is a wing coaster IMO. But with that and how recent TT went in, I would focus on capital improvements, like they did with Candy Apple Grove, and install a few flats while doing that.

 

[belsaas]

I'm learning a lot in this thread regarding comparing parks and competition between coasters, but I don't think X-category of coaster is what is missing at KD. If I bring my normally Busch Gardens friends to Kings Dominion, the two things they miss are shows and a star dark ride (something BG is now missing too. BfE doesn't count. Don't @ me.)

If I were looking for the next big thing at Kings Dominion, that's where I'd go. I'd give the Action Theatre something worth going to during the day. And I'd love something big, indoors, and themed to all hell.

Like Boo Blasters, but even better!

 

[warfelg]

I'm learning a lot in this thread regarding comparing parks and competition between coasters, but I don't think X-category of coaster is what is missing at KD. If I bring my normally Busch Gardens friends to Kings Dominion, the two things they miss are shows and a star dark ride (something BG is now missing too. BfE doesn't count. Don't @ me.)

If I were looking for the next big thing at Kings Dominion, that's where I'd go. I'd give the Action Theatre something worth going to during the day. And I'd love something big, indoors, and themed to all hell.

Like Boo Blasters, but even better!

Well that’s where I’m at. KD is kinda boxed in when it comes to adding coaster, so spend time revamping all other aspects of the park with themeing, dark rides, flats.

 

[CoasterAuditor]

I think KD has gotten plenty of nice additions since Cedar Fair acquired the park. They got 2 waterpark expansions (1 was likely already set up before Cedar Fair took over but I digress), the BEST ride at Geauga Lake in a B&M Floorless, one of the best roller coasters in the world in I305, a ferris wheel, WindSeeker, 2 Planet Snoopy Expansions, a large awesome flat, and Twisted Timbers which I've seen other enthusiasts sing the praises of. I think we should avoid going back to the "Kings Dominion is neglected" narrative in literally the same year that Twisted Timbers opened. If you review what many other Cedar Fair parks have gotten in the last 10 years I imagine the list is far less impressive. No it's not one of the "big 4 parks" or whatever but I'm certain its very high on the 2nd tier based off the investments the last decade.

 

[mtorange]

I'm learning a lot in this thread regarding comparing parks and competition between coasters, but I don't think X-category of coaster is what is missing at KD. If I bring my normally Busch Gardens friends to Kings Dominion, the two things they miss are shows and a star dark ride (something BG is now missing too. BfE doesn't count. Don't @ me.)

If I were looking for the next big thing at Kings Dominion, that's where I'd go. I'd give the Action Theatre something worth going to during the day. And I'd love something big, indoors, and themed to all hell.

Like Boo Blasters, but even better!

It seems like the main focus of the Action Theater for the past year or so has been for holiday events. While The Inn at Darkside Manor: No Vacancy Condemned uses up the left side, I anticipate a WinterFest attraction being on the other side of it (pure speculation, nothing has been confirmed). I do agree that the park needs a bigger dark ride; Boo Blasters on Boo Hill is always fun, but we need something in the park that wasn't meant for kids.

I could easily see KD implementing "Dark Ride" as a Haunt maze a few years down the road (it's currently exclusive to Knott's Scary Farm), and Boo Blasters would be perfect for this type of thing.

But seriously, something NEEDS to be added in 2019 to compete with the new swing at BGW... even if it's small. Or a train. Or a dark ride.

 

[belsaas]

I could easily see KD implementing "Dark Ride" as a Haunt maze a few years down the road (it's currently exclusive to Knott's Scary Farm), and Boo Blasters would be perfect for this type of thing.

You can't close Boo Blasters during Halloween! That's madness!

 

[Ghost of Pretzel Kaiser]

Do I think KD is somewhat neglected? To a point given how much they pushed their Planet Snoopy expansions.

Do I expect a ride the year after a new coaster and a new holiday event? No.

 

[SLC Headache]

Something NEEDS to be added in 2019 to compete with the new swing at BGW... even if it's small. Or a train. Or a dark ride.

I vote Zamperla Endeavor. There seems to be enough space next to Delirium. They could even name it Apple Turnover in honor of the old Enterprise.

 

[CrosshairsKD]

Also, I'm starting to believe that I don't think Kings Dominion is getting anything next year. After spending money on Twisted Timbers, revamping the area around Twisted Timbers, and Winterfest.

 

[mtorange]

You can't close Boo Blasters during Halloween! That's madness!

I know it's open during the day, but is it actually open during Haunt hours? I thought all of Planet Snoopy was closed after 7pm but I could've easily overlooked this, as I seldom ride rides during Haunt.

I vote Zamperla Endeavor. There seems to be enough space next to Delirium. They could even name it Apple Turnover in honor of the old Enterprise.

I'm unsure what Cedar Point's plans are for Witches' Wheel now that it is being removed from the park, but I would be all for them relocating the ride to Kings Dominion and renaming it Apple Turnover (I hope these were the same type of ride, LOL).

Also, I'm starting to believe that I don't think Kings Dominion is getting anything next year. After spending money on Twisted Timbers, revamping the area around Twisted Timbers, and Winterfest.

Even if the "new" additions for 2019 are simple theming around the park or something like that, I would be happy. They just need something to compete with Busch.

 

[Zachary]

I suspect KD is spending every dime they have on WinterFest (the current work shows that pretty clearly IMHO).

Truthfully, I think that is a reasonable direction. KD needs to debut with a VERY strong event to even stand a chance against BGW. They'll do fine next summer with nothing. WinterFest is sink or swim though and KD is being thrown into the deep end.

 

[mtorange]

I suspect KD is spending every dime they have on WinterFest (the current work shows that pretty clearly IMHO).

Truthfully, I think that is a reasonable direction. KD needs to debut with a VERY strong event to even stand a chance against BGW. They'll do fine next summer with nothing. WinterFest is sink or swim though and KD is being thrown into the deep end.

I keep thinking about this aspect of the argument and as everyone probably knows, I REALLY want WinterFest to do well. As I've said before, I would be okay with Haunt being pushed to the side in a sense (which is kind of what it looks like because the new attractions are additions or revamps of old attractions) if it makes WinterFest's first year VERY strong. There's even a chance that I'll enjoy WinterFest more than Haunt, which says a lot.

With that being said, I cannot remember a year in recent memory where the park gets literally nothing new for the season (Wikipedia says the last year KD got nothing was in 1981). I was questioning Kings Island's move; they had this exact situation in 2017 with Mystic Timbers and Winterfest. Because the park had both a new ride and an extended operating season, people were unsure what they would be getting. They ended up getting only a restaurant for the 2018 season. I wouldn't be surprised if KD did this same thing, but I would be shocked if we got nothing only because KD needs to give returning guests a reason to buy season passes.

EDIT: I've pretty much given up any hope of a train attraction next season. Maybe in 2020!

 

[b.mac]

Truthfully, I think that is a reasonable direction. KD needs to debut with a VERY strong event to even stand a chance against BGW. They'll do fine next summer with nothing. WinterFest is sink or swim though and KD is being thrown into the deep end.

This is also why they announced Twisted Timbers alongside Winterfest. They're being given a very big gift for the year to try and prove they are capable of performing, especially considering what they were given from 2008-2010 and how well that played out for them in terms of attendance.

Unfortunately if you've been paying attention to the quarterly earnings statements, Cedar Fair has not met performance expectations and Twisted Timbers wasn't even mentioned in the Q2 earnings call. I am very worried with the forecasts they're calling for this winter, as the weather might not play to KD's advantage like it has with BGW, Dollywood, Great Adventure, Carowinds, and Hersheypark when they introduced their winter events.