Project 2019: Finnegan's Flyer (S&S Screamin' Swing)

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I think you all underestimate the "average guest's" level of education.

Regardless, reading this discussion highlighted a real irony for me. Ireland has real Viking history and embraces it. Obviously, Quebec does not. I'm not saying that I think they should have put a wooden coaster in Killarney. I just find it interesting that they themed a ride around Viking invaders in one of the least appropriate hamlets in the park.

How cool would it be to have Maelstrom at BGW...
 
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Maybe to a degree, especially given this is BGW and not say...KD... not trying stereotype guests* but I do think there's an appreciation for more than just amusement rides by the average BGW guest. Really I think that's why there are debates here about such topics and sensitivities and anything that dilutes the cultural and artistic original intent of the hamlets. But the spelling thing is something I personally feel is obscure and would go over heads, unless you're a product of Irish schools or have a greater level of understanding.

Spot on re: the Vikings. Viking invaders are very much a real thing in Ireland and completely agree that could have been a great theme. Vikings in Canada were more explorers, and though not an expert in their interactions with the first nations people, they certainly don't have the pillaging track record as with Ireland. And not in New France, AFAIK.

I'm expecting the themeing is already somewhat decided for Finnegan...and it's a swing not a dark ride or something you could build more around...but a dueling giants theme (Finn McCool) with the ravine standing in for the Giant's Causeway would be creative, tied to actual Ireland and its mythological heritage as well.

*I've been to KD too, and not to go off on another tangent, but like the thread elsewhere I also consider myself to be the "general public" like Nicole's point there, and obviously am not trying to insult my own intelligence. ;)
 
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Ok, so I'm going to try to be careful with how I say this so I don't sound insensitive with what I'm going to talk about here:

The 'tone deafness and laziness' of the park 90% of the time I don't see it that was. I think in some ways the parks creative team has a job I don't envy at all. They need to walk the fine line of doing things in a way that all guests (Not just average) will understand.

I can't speak on the Ire spelling, but as for the Eire vs Eire with the accent (sorry my computer keyboard doesn't allow it) is actually answered in the 1970's by the Minister for Posts and Telegrapghs, basically answering that it was done in the common practice of printing Irish in Roman script. Having a heavy background in German and Italian, I see some things there too. But I think there's a certain amount of 'standardization' that needs to go on in the park that minimizes potential issues from a printing standpoint.

And that's where I think they are trying to walk a fine line. Sometimes the "Americanized" version of a lot of words come up with unintended consequences.

Some things are bad. Like the 'dueling' aspect in Finnegan's Flyer. Sometimes they just play with people's understanding, and claim a little ignorance. Like vikings in trappers village. Like Nicole said, Ireland having a viking history. But when people think of vikings, our minds more often do to the Nordic peninsula and the Newfoundland area. So I get why they went there with that, despite the time period differences.

In this instance with Finnegan's Flyer, I'm glad they thought twice. But things like "Battle for Eire" and O'Taters, I overlook because they are "Americanized" through understanding or print of an Irish thing.
 
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warfelg said:
Ok, so I'm going to try to be careful with how I say this so I don't sound insensitive with what I'm going to talk about here:

The 'tone deafness and laziness' of the park 90% of the time I don't see it that was. I think in some ways the parks creative team has a job I don't envy at all. They need to walk the fine line of doing things in a way that all guests (Not just average) will understand.
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Oh I definitely get that. I'm not saying it's malicious. I do think it's lazy in some respects, but then again I'm very detailed and not everyone is. And I do have a great appreciation for sales and marketing...and really, you need to consider your audience. And your audience isn't only people on this site that debate such things. :) A non-envious role in any event.

Now the spelling bit was only answered depending on your perspective, shall we say. I know what the arguments are, including those of plausible deniability for any ill intent. And we're many years removed from when it was hotly debated (and not just between the UK & Ireland, but the Irish themselves debated it and its use in their own constitution), things have settled down a bit, etc. "Ire" is simply a mis-pronunciation, and even the brits called it "AIR-ruh" versus "Ire"--they actually wouldn't call it "Ireland" because that conflated the island with the Republic, and you see there's this issue... The whole thing is a very complex and sordid mess, which is why I was so amazed that they went there....but then again, most non-Irish/British guests probably don't know, and if they notice the spelling, will similarly assume typeset issues or benign ignorance.

There are some typeset issues sure, especially for English-only speakers or printing-press users. I don't know German or French. The park could be butchering those too, but I assume less likely German as the Busch's assumingly were pretty aware. Any diacritics missing elsewhere? Mäch Tower has one, do others? I'd probably suggest moving that topic elsewhere...

Back to Finnegan... The dueling theme is perfectly fine. Just not in a troubles context. I think dueling giants is a great theme. Probably too far down the road with Finnegan's themeing, but if they could... I'd personally theme it as Finn McCool's Duel, or something like that. I think the average guest could "get" that even if they'd never heard of the story. I'm sure they won't be familiar with whatever the Finnegan back story is either, as it will probably be made up. Why not go with a real story?
 
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thopping said:
Oh I definitely get that. I'm not saying it's malicious. I do think it's lazy in some respects, but then again I'm very detailed and not everyone is. And I do have a great appreciation for sales and marketing...and really, you need to consider your audience. And your audience isn't only people on this site that debate such things. :) A non-envious role in any event.

Now the spelling bit was only answered depending on your perspective, shall we say. I know what the arguments are, including those of plausible deniability for any ill intent. And we're many years removed from when it was hotly debated (and not just between the UK & Ireland, but the Irish themselves debated it and its use in their own constitution), things have settled down a bit, etc. "Ire" is simply a mis-pronunciation, and even the brits called it "AIR-ruh" versus "Ire"--they actually wouldn't call it Ireland. The whole thing is very complex and sordid mess, which is why I was so amazed that they went there....but then again, most guests probably don't know, and if they notice the spelling, will similarly assume typeset issues.

There are some typeset issues sure, especially for English-only speakers or printing-press users. I don't know German or French. The park could be butchering those too, but I assume less likely German as the Busch's assumingly were pretty aware. Any diacritics missing elsewhere? Mäch Tower has one, do others? I'd probably suggest moving that topic elsewhere...
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There's a bunch in the queue line for Bolt.....and don't even get me started on Verbolten as a word. But many of the ones in the queue line I put in the JFK "Ich bin ein Berliner" statement. Where in the true translation he said "I am a doughnut" but the meaning was clearly something else. In the last 'house' you are in before the station, the one book on the left roughly translates to "How not to wear a wolf" but because it's Germanic it looks like it says "How to avoid werewolfs".

In the San Marco and Festa, and this is very nit picking, its mixed greek and italian influences.

thopping said:
Back to Finnegan... The dueling theme is perfectly fine. Just not in a troubles context. I think dueling giants is a great theme. Probably too far down the road with Finnegan's themeing, but if they could... I'd personally theme it as Finn McCool's Duel, or something like that. I think the average guest could "get" that even if they'd never heard of the story. I'm sure they won't be familiar with whatever the Finnegan back story is either, as it will probably be made up. Why not go with a real story?
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I say just make up a story. I think more stories that are made up the less likely you are to have these historical references that can be taken the wrong way.
 
Ha. I never noticed the Bolt text. And I'm the sort who often looks that stuff up. I hadn't noticed Greek in San Marco either, but Festa is a hot mess. I forgive Festa though. Well, not for the fact it exists, but since it does, for any spelling issues as it's by definition supposed to a hodgepodge. Almost like the park said, how do we diversify out of this European focus in a Old Country/Europe themed park that caters to a diverse American populace? Add some other countries, but how? Marco Polo to the rescue! Seriously, these are actually pretty cool trivia items that probably do deserve their own topic. Spelling/cultural errors & anachronisms...

I think Finn is pretty safe... Though I understand kinda being sensitive to the historical topic especially with me pointing all these indirect references from Ire repeatedly. ;)

I keep forgetting to mention another great Finn McCool tie-in...the giant he fights is from Scotland. And this dueling swing is right across the bridge from Heatherdowns! What an opportunity lost. The park would seriously gain some points with me to offset Ire and Vikings in Quebec. Definitely my suggestion had they done a decide the ride type thing.

But anyway, there's probably no point to speculating much about the themeing, as the name is set and they probably will make up something generic.
 
Any normal park would have in-park advertisement ready to go immediately after the announcement two weeks ago. Hell, the park maps would all have a "Finnegan's Flyer: Coming 2019" ad over the site of the upcoming ride too. But alas, this isn't a normal park, this is BGW.
 
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I'm sure the hurricane prep may have delayed things, but (as I posted earlier this month) "I think you'll see walls go up sometime in October. Hopefully they'll do something aesthetic that blends into the surroundings".
 
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