Project 2019: Finnegan's Flyer (S&S Screamin' Swing)

[warfelg]

So I'm going to really try to put my opinion as sensitively as I can, because I do know that there are a lot of people that would like to see the park changed as little and keeps it's context. I'm bringing this in the context of my first visit came in 2003, and I became a member in 2016. So I don't quite have the long history as some of you and don't have the connection to as many things.

To me change is inevitable. We have to lose some history to move forward. I think we know that IMO change is good. But that being said, to me change needs to be couched in one of three things:
~Deterioration: As in whatever is being taken out is too expensive to fix (BBW/DK), falling apart (can't think of anything at BGW), or illness (foliage).
~A great story: For the setting of the ride, there needs to be a great story for it to be in it's location.
~Lack of location: As in this ride does not make sense anywhere else in the park.

I do think that the park failed at all 3 of these things. The second one of those is the place the park failed the most and the biggest spot they could have won over most people was a great story to the ride. If doesn't matter to me how many people know it. But if you create and craft a great story for the ride, to where it can make the third item fit their story. I 100% feel they picked this location because of being able to do it on the deck and increase the thrill of hanging on that ledge.

I'm sad that the willow is gone, and lament this quiet little corner of the park being lost. But I think this is a ride that's going into a spot of the park that needed something like this. Ireland was one of the few areas that didn't have a thrill ride. Not saying that one had to be forced there, but it makes sense for them a standpoint of it's a way to control crowd levels by putting it in an area not surrounded by other thrill rides.

 

[GrandpaD]

I agree with @warfelg that the location of this attraction was strictly a business decision to drive traffic to that side of the park. I don't think Eire was the draw they anticipated and there certainly isn't anything else to pull traffic to that side until you get to Griffin.

I just have a hard time grasping the concept that they majority of park visitors are engrossed with stories tied to a particular ride. On this site, yes, because I venture to guess the majority of members are purists that recall how things were. But I think it would be a safe bet that the average visitor couldn't tell you the "story" related to any particular attraction.

To say that a well conceived storyline will lessen the visual impact and loss of vegetation in the area is like saying "well, he/she isn't that great looking but they have a great personality". The best thing they can do with this monstrosity is to be as architecturally thematic as possible.

 

[Nicole]

First, I’m not sure what @warfelg said that was in any way controversial? That said, I am not the person most likely to be bothered by it, because...

Second, despite what seems to be implied in @GrandpaD’s post, I am not now, nor have I ever been a “purist.” Nor do I consider myself to be some kind of park expert enthusiast.

I believe BGW (now, more than when it was a tax write-off for Busch) is a business. It’s purpose is to make money by entertaining people. I have no problem with intelligent change and expansion.

I think the key point is how BGW is designed to entertain.

BGW could have gone the route of any number of beloved amusement parks, like Hershey. They obviously can be charming, and they certainly draw and delight crowds. Busch, instead, chose to develop a theme park. Under that model, there are central concepts that are meant to tie everything together to create a cohesive experience for the guest.

It seems to me that if being a theme park is your business model, then you should stick to the theme. BGW is designed to entertain by creating an immersive and beautiful environment. The more they stray from that core idea, the less they are able to differentiate themselves from regional competition. If you offer nothing more than loosely decorated thrill rides, why shouldn’t I just go to KD? BGW’s unique offering isn’t a large flat ride, it is a larger experience.

I believe that they are in danger of eroding that, if they continue down their current path of dialing in the theming and back stories.

I grew up in Virginia Beach and now live in NOVA. I have never been part of some small clique of people, who obsess over the stories behind each ride. That said, as an educated person, I already know the legend of the Loch Ness Monster and the stories about Apollo. So, their using those commonly understood myths made it EASIER for me to relate the concepts and decorations at those attractions to the surrounding hamlets.

Similarly, my enduring annoyance with InvadR is that a Viking ride in a Quebec village make absolutely no historical sense to me. And it bothers me every time I think about it. It seems lazy and insulting. Apparently, the park doesn’t think it’s guests are in any way historically literate. Linking FF to the Irish Troubles in honestly even more offensive to me, to be honest.

So, yes, the stories behind the rides have always mattered to me, a person who is essentially “GP.”

All of this is to say that I don’t think one needs to be a purist or opposed to change to want BGW to make the effort to theme its new attractions to a logical myth and by extension to the rest of the park.

 

[warfelg]

Right right, spot on @Nicole. If I had to say where I land, I'm right in the middle of purist and "pave paradise to put up a parking lot" type person, which often comes off as 'offensive' to someone. (Didn't mean it was you!)

I think stories....reasons for why a ride fits in to a themed area....they put in a background to why it's there. Steel Vengence has a story, so does Maverick. They make sense for that part of that park.

And I'm with you....the story for Invadr is basically a slap in the face to anyone that knows anything about history. Why did it have to be vikings? Couldn't come up with a good story about being a trapper on the hunt. Or a search party looking for a monster terrorizing the village. (Although, I'm glad they didn't theme it around the French-Indian War.....yikes).

But here with FF, theres no great theme element to it. Nothing to tell me why it's there. Nothing to immerse me in the experience of why it fits. I don't need a huge elaborate story. But it helps in theme parks.

Personally (on another note you made on staying from the core idea), I think they are so lost in that much of what's there is part of the "Old Country" era or the park, and they don't know if they want to be that or a more 'modern history' of Europe. I think they need to sit down and figure that out. BGT has the same issue IMO from past visits of so much of "Dark Continent" remaining, but trying to seem more modern wonders of Africa. I know not the space, but I wish BGW went with a more fantasy look at Europe, embracing the legends; and BGT went more 'wild safari" look at Africa.

Back to Finnegan's Flyer though. I'm glad BGW got a Sreamin' Swing. It's the type of ride experience they needed. I like the size they went with. If they are taking it over the edge, I think it's going to be a unique experience I've only seen (through pictures) at one other park.

 

[Zimmy]

First DAMN... This does not work as well since Warfelg beat me to the punch!


So I am not what you call a theme Nazi. Having said that I do notice when the park does things like break old clocks or statuary. I do not think that theming changes the quality of the ride experience int he physical sense, but I can see how it would impact a person emotionally. I also know that things like trees make a park feel cooler and more inviting. For me the removal of a few trees is a real shame, however it can be a net gain if the installation provides similar visual appeal. I will refrain from making my opinion known in this case until the beast is built. I will say that giant orange thing that looks like it is marching might be in poor taste. I will also say I wish the park would plant more when they pull out. I know they do plant some, I just wish it were more obvious.

 

[Icer]

Similarly, my enduring annoyance with InvadR is that a Viking ride in a Quebec village make absolutely no historical sense to me. And it bothers me every time I think about it. It seems lazy and insulting. Apparently, the park doesn’t think it’s guests are in any way historically literate. Linking FF to the Irish Troubles in honestly even more offensive to me, to be honest.

Though I entirely agree with your post, I want to ask one thing about this.

Is it not almost contradictory to say that you hate that they themed a ride to a war conflict that never existed, citing the historical inaccuracy as the reasoning why, but then go on to say that you dislike how the park is (kinda) theming a ride to a war conflict that DID exist, and still complain despite the historical accuracies.

Is your point just to tell them that they need to stay away from historical events for theming? Or war conflicts specifically?

 

[warfelg]

Though I entirely agree with your post, I want to ask one thing about this.

Is it not almost contradictory to say that you hate that they themed a ride to a war conflict that never existed, citing the historical inaccuracy as the reasoning why, but then go on to say that you dislike how the park is (kinda) theming a ride to a war conflict that DID exist, and still complain despite the historical accuracies.

Is your point just to tell them that they need to stay away from historical events for theming? Or war conflicts specifically?

Just my $0.02 based on @Nicole's posting history on it, I think she rather them avoid war themed conflicts entirely. Most war conflicts has some context of discrimination against a group of people that can be offensive.

The 'war conflict' of InvadR' is over two groups hundreds of years apart in possibly the same area. That would be like SF making a Batman vs Aquaman ride. There's no precedent for them to cross paths in that way, but they did it anyways.

 

[halfabee]

I can't imagine reading Nicole's posts as suggesting the park needs to stay away from historical events for theming.

I'd sooner interpret her posts as a treatise on the historical variety of colors in a bag of M&Ms, than a call to avoid historical theming in general at BGW.

 

[Nicole]

I don’t object to war themes in principle, but I do object to:

1. Battles that are historically impossible (InvadR); and
2. Conflicts driven by the oppression of one group of people, especially, if there are still tensions today (the Troubles).

For context, I work for the Department of Defense, so I am hardly some pacifist. I just think some themes are in poor taste.

 

[warfelg]

I think BGW needs to hire some of us to clean up their mess.

 

[warfelg]

So anyways the S&S Swing (I feel like that Episode of HIMYM where Ted is trying to tell a story of his date, but Barney trying to see Lily's Tata's, so Robin keeps pushing Ted to tell his story).

Do we have a confirmation of cycle and seat's per side?

 

[Zachary]

It's the standard 32 seat model. 8 seats on each side of each arm.

 

[Zimmy]

I don’t object to war themes in principle, but I do object to:

1. Battles that are historically impossible (InvadR); and
2. Conflicts driven by the oppression of one group of people, especially, if there are still tensions today (the Troubles).

For context, I work for the Department of Defense, so I am hardly some pacifist. I just think some themes are in poor taste.

i go back to why I think something big, orange, and seemingly to march in bad taste.

 

[UncleDuncan]

Oh you people are so negative. Orange and green are awesome! Imagine how bitchin' it's going to be on St. Douchebags Day when all the bros are chugging totally Irish Bud Lite (dyed green) and marathoning Finnegans Flyer.

Just thinking about it makes me want to chest bump a random frat boy.

 

[belsaas]

Oh you people are so negative. Orange and green are awesome! Imagine how bitchin' it's going to be on St. Douchebags Day when all the bros are chugging totally Irish Bud Lite (dyed green) and marathoning Finnegans Flyer.

Just thinking about it makes me want to chest bump a random frat boy.

This brings a whole new dimension to projectile vomiting. Think of the distance...

 

[WDWRLD]

FYI it was Coors Light that was green last year.

 

[warfelg]

FWIW on the ride colors, the Irish flag is green and orange so I have no huge issue with it. I think perceiving a swing as a “marching like motion” and combining it with the colors is sort of seeking out a reason to voice displeasure.

Just my $0.02 on that.

 

[Alf33]

You forgot white. The Irish flag is green, white and orange on the end.

 

[Zimmy]

FYI it was Coors Light that was green last year.

This hardly improves things.

 

[WDWRLD]

This hardly improves things.

I didnt say it was.......