Project 2019: Finnegan's Flyer (S&S Screamin' Swing)

[warfelg]

I was just on Freedom Flyer last month. It doesn’t swing.

It’s also listed as suspended because that’s what that manufacturer lists it as.

RCDB lists the first-generation Vekoma family inverts (like the ones at Kings Island and Carowinds) as inverts.

And the newest generation (what freedom flyer is) now lands under family suspended coaster according to Vekoma:
https://www.vekoma.com/index.php/family-coasters/suspended-family-coaster

Anyways we’re off topic.

I’m trying to get down to the park (accident on 64 slowing stuff waaaay down). Will be interesting to see if anything is going on in that area today (stakes, surveying, etc).

 

[deacfan31]

To me I can more see them putting a event space there and doing something else in the Castle O Sullivan space.

 

[b.mac]

That said, I can see one justification for this being a family coaster: If Grover is being assimilated into a possibile Sesame Place Williamsburg, maybe BGW thinks another, similarly tame, kiddy-targeted coaster is in order—a mouse of some kind possibly?

You have no idea how happy I would be if Izzy came back. Modern Mack Mouses (outside of that weird Cedar Fair umbrella) are all 42-48 for their height restrictions, so it'd be a solid fit. Cobra's Curse has a 42 inch height restriction, so I could also see them going with something like that. Mack spinning coasters are weird with their height restrictions, Sierra Sidewinder is 42 inches minimum, Turbulence is 44-48, Euro-Mir is 51 inches, and D'Wervelwind and Twist are 100 cm minimum (40 inches).

 

[SLC Headache]

That said, I can see one justification for this being a family coaster: If Grover is being assimilated into a possibile Sesame Place Williamsburg, maybe BGW thinks another, similarly tame, kiddy-targeted coaster is in order—a mouse of some kind possibly?

You have no idea how happy I would be if Izzy came back. Modern Mack Mouses (outside of that weird Cedar Fair umbrella) are all 42-48 for their height restrictions, so it'd be a solid fit. Cobra's Curse has a 42 inch height restriction, so I could also see them going with something like that. Mack spinning coasters are weird with their height restrictions, Sierra Sidewinder is 42 inches minimum, Turbulence is 44-48, Euro-Mir is 51 inches, and D'Wervelwind and Twist are 100 cm minimum (40 inches).

Apple Zapple over at KD is 44" chaperoned (54" alone), and Sand Serpent (BGW's former Wild Izzy) is 46".

I don't think a mouse would do much - unless they're just returning Sand Serpent so BGT gets another expansion. If they're going for another family addition, it needs to be 42" or bust.

 

[b.mac]

That said, I can see one justification for this being a family coaster: If Grover is being assimilated into a possibile Sesame Place Williamsburg, maybe BGW thinks another, similarly tame, kiddy-targeted coaster is in order—a mouse of some kind possibly?

You have no idea how happy I would be if Izzy came back. Modern Mack Mouses (outside of that weird Cedar Fair umbrella) are all 42-48 for their height restrictions, so it'd be a solid fit. Cobra's Curse has a 42 inch height restriction, so I could also see them going with something like that. Mack spinning coasters are weird with their height restrictions, Sierra Sidewinder is 42 inches minimum, Turbulence is 44-48, Euro-Mir is 51 inches, and D'Wervelwind and Twist are 100 cm minimum (40 inches).

Apple Zapple over at KD is 44" chaperoned (54" alone), and Sand Serpent (BGW's former Wild Izzy) is 46".

I don't think a mouse would do much - unless they're just returning Sand Serpent so BGT gets another expansion. If they're going for another family addition, it needs to be 42" or bust.

Like I mentioned though, a majority of the Mack Mouses are 42-48. Kings Dominion and the rest of the Cedar Fair parks that have them have the 44-54 inch height restriction due to corporate policy. The Legoland Wild Mouses, and all of the Six Flags mouses as well, are 42-48. Hershey is also an outlier, but they have an identical model of Izzy. Might be something with the cars, as the Six Flags Wild Mouses are all the portable revision B of the mobile model along with more accomodating trains.

 

[Zachary]

For anyone who found their way to this post prior to knowing anything else about this new Killarney height waiver, please go back and read Kingadam's initial post here before continuing.

---

Ok. So I have absolutely no idea what this Killarney height waiver stuff is about. I didn't hear a peep about it prior to the park's filing with the country and everyone I've spoken to since continues to be completely in the dark. Because of this, I'm just going to post a couple highlights from the park's full filing with James City County and call it a day for now.

 

[Merboy]

What on earth! Firstly, I'm hoping they don't redo AST because I love the intimate feeling of the venue. Unlike the Globe where you feel quite distant from the performers, I feel like AST encourages the audience to... I don't want to say participate, but rather to engage with the performers. Yes, the choreography and songs bring the cast into the aisles and then there's the bit with the doves and all that, but the coziness of the space really makes it so that people who are really feeling the performance can, if you will, "whoop and holler". Creating a theater that accommodates a larger audience is certainly understandable but I think it would be at the cost of having an authentic experience.

As well, this new Ireland addition and how it relates to #ProMad is confounding. CONFOUNDING! I'm on the edge of my palanquin.

 

[madmax]

That said, I can see one justification for this being a family coaster: If Grover is being assimilated into a possibile Sesame Place Williamsburg, maybe BGW thinks another, similarly tame, kiddy-targeted coaster is in order—a mouse of some kind possibly?

You have no idea how happy I would be if Izzy came back. Modern Mack Mouses (outside of that weird Cedar Fair umbrella) are all 42-48 for their height restrictions, so it'd be a solid fit. Cobra's Curse has a 42 inch height restriction, so I could also see them going with something like that. Mack spinning coasters are weird with their height restrictions, Sierra Sidewinder is 42 inches minimum, Turbulence is 44-48, Euro-Mir is 51 inches, and D'Wervelwind and Twist are 100 cm minimum (40 inches).

There's already a lame wild mouse up the road. I would be furious if they got one.

 

[warfelg]

I hate to be a pest, but can someone link the website page of the filing? Or at least direct me to where it is on here? I'm having problems finding it.

 

[Adam]

I hate to be a pest, but can someone link the website page of the filing?  Or at least direct me to where it is on here?  I'm having problems finding it.

Yep, I got ya!
http://first.jamescitycountyva.gov/CaseTrak/searchdetail.aspx?caseid=66922

 

[Zimmy]

500' UNDERGROUND-Dark-Strata-Airtime-Dive-Flying-Inverted-Launched-Wingrider-Looper CONFIRMED!  What else can it be?

The 90' is just for the tophat sticking out of the ground.

 

[warfelg]

Ok, so I'm building a theory here based on something read at screamscape and I found elsewhere (not 100% sure on the validity of this report through), some use of google earth's time machine, some recent rumor/speculation, and some guessing. (someone correct me if I'm wrong on any of this)

So, I'm reading that there's rumors about 15-20 years ago there was a possible plan to put a tower ride launching from within a tower in the Killarney Hamlet. From the google earth history pictures, it looks as through the RPT got some work done to it in the early 2000's, right about the time that this rumor was said to take place.

Since then we've gotten Mach Tower, meaning this project could get shelved for the time being.

So my theory....they're dusting this off, and that's why we see that semi-circular thing in the Festa Field. This is an old plan that they are pulling back into focus, and instead of redoing a bunch of work, just reused some of the map work done. And my rampant speculation here is maybe the intention at the time was to build a new theater and do away with RPT.

Now let me back up for a minute there:
I'm looking at the map for the location, and looking at a topographical map. If a coaster goes in there, that's going to take quite a bit of work to design something for the space, and can end up being quite expensive. Also the proximity to the pipeline is a little challenging for designing something too. So the rumor of a tower makes sense.

What makes me lead to the thoughts of being old, is my untrained eye is struggling to see the path of Griff on that map. That looks like the old Le Mans ride path does it not? Could the box of the scrapped building be there as a red herring? It could. It could be something they toyed with for years. Also notice how all other built structures don't have elevation lines inside them, yet this single structure does.

There was also (IIRC) the rumor for a while of an outdoor "Death of Cesar" show. Between that and more concerts, wouldn't it make sense to investigate a better theater near the Italy area rather than France?

Anyways, back to the thought here: They could be bringing this project back to light. With the SP plan out there that means the small kids tower ride is in there along with many of the kid friendly flats. BGW would be lacking some of the rides for that mid level. With a 90 foot tower, you aren't as big and scary of a thrill as Mach Tower, you appeal to families a little more, and you set yourself up to do Project Madrid a year later. And by putting this in the sleepy hamlet of the park, you can do some work to 'balance' the crowds some by having a good option out there on the other side of the park.

Ok, I'm taking the tin foil hat off now, and I'm just going to say I still think maybe what they did with the plan that was submitted was a honest mistake and I'm looking way too much into things.

 

[bgwfan77]

I'm thinking a shot&drop or starflyer

 

[Nicole]

This is really interesting! Since you specifically asked, here is what BGWFans knows about some of your questions.

So, I'm reading that there's rumors about 15-20 years ago there was a possible plan to put a tower ride launching from within a tower in the Killarney Hamlet. From the google earth history pictures, it looks as through the RPT got some work done to it in the early 2000's, right about the time that this rumor was said to take place.

Goddard Group labled the drop tower, “Dragon Drop Tower.” Concept art was published, and is available on the Forum. So, we consider that confirmed.

RPT has been renovated a few times.

Since then we've gotten Mach Tower, meaning this project could get shelved for the time being.

Our understanding is that the Dragon Drop Tower was deemed too expensive. There are a few theories in that thread I linked.

So my theory....they're dusting this off, and that's why we see that semi-circular thing in the Festa Field. This is an old plan that they are pulling back into focus, and instead of redoing a bunch of work, just reused some of the map work done. And my rampant speculation here is maybe the intention at the time was to build a new theater and do away with RPT.
...
What makes me lead to the thoughts of being old, is my untrained eye is struggling to see the path of Griff on that map. That looks like the old Le Mans ride path does it not? Could the box of the scrapped building be there as a red herring? It could. It could be something they toyed with for years. Also notice how all other built structures don't have elevation lines inside them, yet this single structure does.

We can’t tell if either Tempesto or InvadR are on the plans, but we believe we can see Bolt. So, unless they have cobbled them together from several documents, these plans can’t be that old.

There was also (IIRC) the rumor for a while of an outdoor "Death of Cesar" show. Between that and more concerts, wouldn't it make sense to investigate a better theater near the Italy area rather than France?

We have never seen any evidence of the wacky Death of Ceasar show concept reported on by the Daily Press. We certainly hope it was nothing more than a baseless rumor.

 

[warfelg]

This is really interesting!  Since you specifically asked, here is what BGWFans knows about some of your questions.

Goddard Group labled the drop tower, “Dragon Drop Tower.”  Concept art was published, and is available on the Forum.  So, we consider that confirmed.

RPT has been renovated a few times.

Thanks for the response Nicole! Still trying to lean some more things about the history of the park, and BGWFans past posts is a great resource for me to learn more from. I know you guys don't get paid for it, but would love a 'verbal history' of some of the hamlets!

So sounds like that part for me is very confirmed as at least existing at some point.

Our understanding is that the Dragon Drop Tower was deemed too expensive, and COS was constructed instead.

COS, as in Castle O'Sullivan? That's what I'm guessing as looking at what changed over time that's what's new about that time. Interesting that they deemed that too expensive, but they were relatively new at that time right? Then I guess it makes some sense.

We can’t tell if either Tempesto or InvadR are on the plans, but we believe we can see Bolt.  So, unless they have cobbled them together from several documents, these plans can’t be that old.

Yea, I started to type something on when I thing the date range of that map may be, got interrupted, and when I saw what I typed I couldn't remember. Hence the kinda rambling there. So yea, that path I saw doesn't 100% match Griff, but you can see Bolt, and I couldn't tell if that was InvadR and Tempesto or not. So maybe this came at a time when Bolt was either just built or a concept. I was trying to look up different things and place them on the map to get a better idea of where what is. Maybe that can clue in on when it's from is it's not a current map.

We have never seen any evidence of the wacky Death of Ceasar show concept reported on by the Daily Press.  We certainly hope it was nothing more than a baseless rumor.

Dear lord I really hope its some baseless rumor, or some creative group pitched it without BGW asking for it, because that sounded horrible.

I'm really quite intrigued by this project much more than Madrid. I know that sounds strange, but there's only so many things a 315 foot tall structure can be. But 90 feet is such a wide range of things that can exist. Flats, buildings, drop towers, coasters, observation towers. It's rather exciting to me.

 

[Nicole]

BTW, I went back in and added the link to the old Dragon Tower stuff.

 

[CastleOSullivan]

Our understanding is that the Dragon Drop Tower was deemed too expensive, and COS was constructed instead.

COS, as in Castle O'Sullivan? That's what I'm guessing as looking at what changed over time that's what's new about that time. Interesting that they deemed that too expensive, but they were relatively new at that time right? Then I guess it makes some sense.

If I recall and understand correctly, The Secrets of Castle O'Sullivan (the show itself) was long in development at the same time as some other concepts for Ireland, which ran along another project about ways to revive Hastings. However, SOCO was intended for Ireland, which was the park's plan B, should Hastings prove to be unsalvageable. Either way, the park was looking into building a new land, looking at about three possibilities, but ultimately, Ireland was the most appealing of all options to their clientele and seemed to management a perfect fit for Hastings, which needed an overhaul anyway.

The Dragon Drop Tower was a concept exclusively for Hastings, which by itself, probably would have cost about as much as the entire Ireland makeover (just guessing). Therefore, the park scrapped the idea. I doubt we will ever see that exact concept again, but apparently, the idea of a more generic shot and drop type of ride located in Castle O'Sullivan survived into the early stages of development for Ireland. The idea was shot down early on, in favor of a more conventional show that followed in the footsteps of one of Hasting's oldest and most beloved attractions, The Enchanted Laboratory.

The idea of a similar ride in a different location sounds new to me and seems like an excellent addition to an area that is otherwise very ride-deprived. I think this could be the solution to an age-old problem for the park: to keep Ireland from going the way of Hastings.

 

[warfelg]

If I recall and understand correctly, The Secrets of Castle O'Sullivan (the show itself) was long in development at the same time as some other concepts for Ireland, which ran along another project about ways to revive Hastings. However, SOCO was intended for Ireland, which was the park's plan B, should Hastings prove to be unsalvageable. Either way, the park was looking into building a new land, looking at about three possibilities, but ultimately, Ireland was the most appealing of all options to their clientele and seemed to management a perfect fit for Hastings, which needed an overhaul anyway.

The Dragon Drop Tower was a concept exclusively for Hastings, which by itself, probably would have cost about as much as the entire Ireland makeover (just guessing). Therefore, the park scrapped the idea. I doubt we will ever see that exact concept again, but apparently, the idea of a more generic shot and drop type of ride located in Castle O'Sullivan survived into the early stages of development for Ireland. The idea was shot down early on, in favor of a more conventional show that followed in the footsteps of one of Hasting's oldest and most beloved attractions, The Enchanted Laboratory.

The idea of a similar ride in a different location sounds new to me and seems like an excellent addition to an area that is otherwise very ride-deprived. I think this could be the solution to an age-old problem for the park: to keep Ireland from going the way of Hastings.

Man...you just made me want them to just revive these two areas over anything else that they could do. So badly. I love those two areas, and want to see them grow. It kinda makes me sad that people get in there and run right through Ireland and Scotland to everything else.

I really hope this would be a start to that and we can get a revival for the area. I get Scotland is penned in by the skyride, but getting some smaller things in there would be a really nice breath of fresh air.

 

[GrandpaD]

In reading the "rumor" threads, the first thing that comes to mind is money. As was mentioned numerous times in the "Madrid" thread, SeaWorld isn't exactly flush with cash. Thus, I really have a difficult time envisioning them undertaking three projects concurrently. I think Sesame Place could happen soonest as they could fast track it, although I've seen nothing posted regarding permits, etc. However, there's little ground prep needed and a third of the plan already exists.

Just speculating, I think Sesame Place might have thrown a monkey wrench into the "Madrid" plans. SeaWorld wants to keep their corporate partner happy. And building a rather inexpensive new "destination" certainly fits the bill. But, now they only have a limited budget remaining to maintain a BGW competitive edge. So, rather than a costly new hamlet, they look to enhancing what they already have with Ireland.

I think a "third gate" attracting young families and a medium "swinger" style coaster in Ireland ("Big Bad Wolf Returns!") for BGW might be a lot of bang for (available) bucks.

 

[madmax]

In reading the "rumor" threads, the first thing that comes to mind is money. As was mentioned numerous times in the "Madrid" thread, SeaWorld isn't exactly flush with cash. Thus, I really have a difficult time envisioning them undertaking three projects concurrently. I think Sesame Place could happen soonest as they could fast track it, although I've seen nothing posted regarding permits, etc. However, there's little ground prep needed and a third of the plan already exists.

Just speculating, I think Sesame Place might have thrown a monkey wrench into the "Madrid" plans. SeaWorld wants to keep their corporate partner happy. And building a rather inexpensive new "destination" certainly fits the bill. But, now they only have a limited budget remaining to maintain a BGW competitive edge. So, rather than a costly new hamlet, they look to enhancing what they already have with Ireland.

I think a "third gate" attracting young families and a medium "swinger" style coaster in Ireland ("Big Bad Wolf Returns!") for BGW might be a lot of bang for (available) bucks.

Y'all really overrate Big Bad Wolf here. Nobody's gonna come for a mediocre family invert. They need a headlining attraction more than anything.