Hey guys I have an idea, when you quote someone just quote the specific section your referring to because these posts are getting too damn big.
Project 2017: InvadR
- Thread starter Sky
- Start date
Geesh InvadR seems to be an incredibly devisive coaster thus far. Well the POV is not very exciting, but then again I wasn't expecting to be terribly excited about this ride ever since the location was announced (not a ton of acreage back there). I imagine with the amount of time left before opening, they may release another POV with more accurate terrain, surrounding, and themeing (though I'm only truly concerned about the physical rides qualities). I think we are all, in a way, just dealing with the reality of this coaster. It's wood, which is my bottom line of appreciation for this project.
Marketing is important and everything, but you can't re-sell an attraction which turns out to be a disappointment for a guest. Busch has been known for building coasters that sell themselves on ride quality upon riding. It appears to me that since Verbolten Busch has been unsure of their direction, ultimately straying from the successful formula of Busch developement that we've come to adore.
Is the ride over-hyped? To the coaster community for which this campaign is directed, yes of course it is. The enthusiast community are the hardest sell in their guest demographic, but that is mostly because we are up to date with the industry and know what we like. I think after Tempesto's marketing they seem to be trying to over compensate on the marketing for this, which I see as an improvement regardless of imperfections.
I'm relatively excited about InvadR. But I'm far more concerned if Busch can to rebound fully back to their past formula for attractions (world class coasters, themes, and terrain interaction). New competition has emerged in a big way in Carowinds and Dollywood. Not to mention that KD has stepped up their game significantly since Cedar Fair took over.
InvadR is a major addition that fits the bill, but they still need another world class coaster in the next five years to catch up on lost ground and show everyone that Busch is where you go to have your mind blown. Don't overthink it BG, look to the characteristics of your most successful attractions and you will have no problem.
Marketing is important and everything, but you can't re-sell an attraction which turns out to be a disappointment for a guest. Busch has been known for building coasters that sell themselves on ride quality upon riding. It appears to me that since Verbolten Busch has been unsure of their direction, ultimately straying from the successful formula of Busch developement that we've come to adore.
Is the ride over-hyped? To the coaster community for which this campaign is directed, yes of course it is. The enthusiast community are the hardest sell in their guest demographic, but that is mostly because we are up to date with the industry and know what we like. I think after Tempesto's marketing they seem to be trying to over compensate on the marketing for this, which I see as an improvement regardless of imperfections.
I'm relatively excited about InvadR. But I'm far more concerned if Busch can to rebound fully back to their past formula for attractions (world class coasters, themes, and terrain interaction). New competition has emerged in a big way in Carowinds and Dollywood. Not to mention that KD has stepped up their game significantly since Cedar Fair took over.
InvadR is a major addition that fits the bill, but they still need another world class coaster in the next five years to catch up on lost ground and show everyone that Busch is where you go to have your mind blown. Don't overthink it BG, look to the characteristics of your most successful attractions and you will have no problem.
For what it's worth, the only major thing the park has been advertising this ride as is BGW's first-ever wooden roller coaster, which is not inaccurate. Nor have they claimed that it would be a major thrill ride or one of the best thrill rides coming in 2017. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Additionally, at the pass member preview day announcement they didn't seem to imply that either, in fact Larry seemed to imply that it would be a fun, family addition. So I don't see any false or inaccurate advertising strategies here. Otherwise, if you feel that it's being "hyped" up too much, I think that's absurd, but others have already addressed that like Username, whom I totally agree with.
However, some seem to be comparing it to the amount of hype larger rides like Fury 325 have recieved. And you're right, InvadR is recieving a similar amount, if not more "hype" than some large additions such as Fury. But it's not BGW's problem that other parks are under-advertising their additions. BGW has every right to hype this ride up as much as they want, and frankly I'm glad they are ignoring the status quo, because they are proving that the status quo in amount of "hype" a certain sized ride should receive is irrelevant. I hope it catches on in the entire industry because I am tired of lackluster advertising for rides that could have so much more.
However, some seem to be comparing it to the amount of hype larger rides like Fury 325 have recieved. And you're right, InvadR is recieving a similar amount, if not more "hype" than some large additions such as Fury. But it's not BGW's problem that other parks are under-advertising their additions. BGW has every right to hype this ride up as much as they want, and frankly I'm glad they are ignoring the status quo, because they are proving that the status quo in amount of "hype" a certain sized ride should receive is irrelevant. I hope it catches on in the entire industry because I am tired of lackluster advertising for rides that could have so much more.
As time goes on, I'm seeing this as a cheap way to add a coaster to one park for a really low price while another is in SBNO status. I think this was something that wasn't in the works until not too long ago. Don't get all hung up on this guys. As time goes on parks change and it won't be long before we're getting another major addition. I think that the layout might be lacking for my taste, but it should be a fun coaster for younger kids.
I was never really afraid of heights but I know many young kids, and not so young kids, are. This coaster should be a good option for those folks. It should be smooth and have some decent, albeit weak, airtime. Not a terrible coaster.
Think of this in a new light. If you're BGW and you get the opportunity to install a coaster for next to nothing, at the cost of delaying your next big coaster a year or so, why not. We can't know how much Busch paid for this coaster, or even know if they got a good deal at this point, but I suspect that's what is happening here.
..or Carl Lum is very naive and thought this specific coaster was what everyone wanted.
I have not been very excited about this coaster as of late, but I'm not upset in any way. You aren't being robbed of a good coaster, you just have to wait a bit for it. Honestly, I think this will be a worthwhile project to install and should help give the youngins something to do.
Ugh, so many thoughts, post too long...I'll be back
I was never really afraid of heights but I know many young kids, and not so young kids, are. This coaster should be a good option for those folks. It should be smooth and have some decent, albeit weak, airtime. Not a terrible coaster.
Think of this in a new light. If you're BGW and you get the opportunity to install a coaster for next to nothing, at the cost of delaying your next big coaster a year or so, why not. We can't know how much Busch paid for this coaster, or even know if they got a good deal at this point, but I suspect that's what is happening here.
..or Carl Lum is very naive and thought this specific coaster was what everyone wanted.
I have not been very excited about this coaster as of late, but I'm not upset in any way. You aren't being robbed of a good coaster, you just have to wait a bit for it. Honestly, I think this will be a worthwhile project to install and should help give the youngins something to do.
Ugh, so many thoughts, post too long...I'll be back
I took a moment to chew it over with Twix, and want to reiterate my view.
After thinking about it, I guess my beef was never with Marketing. They're doing what they are told to do, and that's to make InvadR look as good as possible. I was excited for an AC type ride, and my hopes got shot down again. As a thrill enthusiast, I realize there needs to be diversity in a park, and I have nothing wrong with fun family rides. I just feel like us thrill seekers got screwed with Tempesto.
Nonetheless, I think InvadR will be a fun coaster, and I am glad a woodie will be at my home park, I was just hoping for more. The POV doesn't look very promising, but I'll do what Nicole has stated and hold out my opinion of it until I ride it.
After thinking about it, I guess my beef was never with Marketing. They're doing what they are told to do, and that's to make InvadR look as good as possible. I was excited for an AC type ride, and my hopes got shot down again. As a thrill enthusiast, I realize there needs to be diversity in a park, and I have nothing wrong with fun family rides. I just feel like us thrill seekers got screwed with Tempesto.
Nonetheless, I think InvadR will be a fun coaster, and I am glad a woodie will be at my home park, I was just hoping for more. The POV doesn't look very promising, but I'll do what Nicole has stated and hold out my opinion of it until I ride it.
Zimmy said:
A curious perspective when the demographic is so family-heavy. Where do families go when the kiddo offerings run thin? They go elsewhere.
I have experienced through my kids' eyes, several times, the relative desert of BGW kid thrill offerings between Grover level and Verbolten level. It is not a happy time when your child feels begrudgingly obligated to ride The Little Balloons or the Land of the Dragons' egg ferris wheel/lameboat circle rides at age 7, just to fill out the day's slate of "activities for me."
Fortunately my youngest kid is very tall, so from a height perspective she can ride Loch Ness Monster or Verbolten at age 5 if she wants to -- which is good, because she's completely sick and tired of that redheaded earshredder Elmo. But my oldest certainly didn't grow that quickly, and as it turns out virtually no kids do. Most girls are still shorter than 48" when they turn 7 years old, and a quarter of them still aren't 48" tall even by age 8. Boys are taller at those ages, but not by a ton. What the F are they supposed to do when marathoning the Grovercoaster no longer cuts it, but none of the big rides will allow them on?
Most kids are doomed to go through at least a year of that, and maybe as many as 3 years of it, as they grow through the BG offerings. It makes BG a harder "let's go every year" sell for families... and it only takes one year of broken tradition to create some other, new tradition elsewhere.
Compare that to Hersheypark, another favorite summertime haunt of ours.
Trailblazer: 36" height requirement.
Comet: 42".
Laff Trakk: 42".
Sooperdooperlooper: 42".
All are better rides than the Grovercoaster, and all are 6" or more below the height requirement of any current non-Grover BG coaster.
What was the height requirement for Big Bag Wolf? ...42". Still no replacement for that in the park. InvadR won't do that either, though at least InvadR will be a little bit below 4 feet.
Now, BG has certain crucial advantages over HP, unquestionably. I don't want to suggest otherwise. But for a family who lives several hours from each, it is easier to imagine the young kids having a better time at HP these days. And that comparison is very, very important when planning where a family will spend summertime money.
BG is doing the right thing by installing a transitional ride like InvadR. It isn't for us. It's for kids, and then for the families seeking more for the kids to do. Lose the kids and you risk losing families... the most lucrative demographic the park has.
The next grown-up ride can wait a little while. (Though not too long... Festhaus Park needs its Drachen's Revenge.)
My daughter unquestionably favors KD over BGW for every reason in your post halfabee. She is only 5, but she is a stalky 46 inches. She rides everything that she is tall enough for, which is 4 coasters.(3 of which are eons better than Grover.) I completely agree that BG really needs to fill the 44-46 inch gap. She'll not be able to ride anything more exciting than Le Scoot/Pompeii for years.
CoasterMac said:
GCI does not have their own professional animation program. Many companies are now using the professional version of No Limits or a park will hire an outside company like Virtual Image Productions to create an animation for a new attraction.
My mistake. I meant "GCI's professional animation" as in the outside company's non-NL2 animations they typically provide (Gold Striker, Viper, Prowler, etc.). Something about InvadR's animation being done in Nolimits 2 makes it feel like the layout/elements could change a bit.
I know that many folks want the layout to change, but at this stage it isn't very realistic to think that. The park is getting ready to break ground here very soon, any changes would need to get approved just like everything else that has gone through. As 2016 chugs along, this coaster is now about a year from opening. I see no reason to believe that the layout will change.
Busch is checking the box, playing safe, and already prepping for the next coaster. We've wanted a woodie for some time and it certainly could be worse.
For those of you who are still upset that this coaster isn't a groundbreaking installation, there's mountains of evidence that the park never intended for this to be "the next big coaster". One thing I like to point out is both the capacity and the queue. this ride looks to have a single station with 16 riders per train. Add to that the fact that the queue is rather short, and you'll see that the park doesn't seem to think this ride will be a huge crowd eater.
This coaster should be a fun new ride. It will be something for woodie fans and half pints alike. Don't get yer knickers in a knot
Busch is checking the box, playing safe, and already prepping for the next coaster. We've wanted a woodie for some time and it certainly could be worse.
For those of you who are still upset that this coaster isn't a groundbreaking installation, there's mountains of evidence that the park never intended for this to be "the next big coaster". One thing I like to point out is both the capacity and the queue. this ride looks to have a single station with 16 riders per train. Add to that the fact that the queue is rather short, and you'll see that the park doesn't seem to think this ride will be a huge crowd eater.
This coaster should be a fun new ride. It will be something for woodie fans and half pints alike. Don't get yer knickers in a knot
CoasterMac said:
No-Limits is increasingly being used professionally. I am sure they use other software for the actual designing, but No-Limits animations are often extremely close to the final product.
Fur DozR said:
While I'll be in agreement this will be an excellent roller coaster regardless I wouldn't hold my breath on the layout not changing, cause I've worked in several construction sites were the site layout was changed mid construction due to decisions from either the customer or management. While true this would mean making a big change it is still possible.
One of Voyage's turns was actually changed to be a 90 degree bank during construction. It's a wooden coaster. Design changes can happen quite a bit later than if you're manufacturing steel track in a plant.
I tend to lurk but wanted to chime in. Some of the people here came up with interesting POV possibilities and compared to those, BGW's release it's definitely disappointing. I like KD's Scooby Doo Coaster/Woodstock Express and this reminds me of it. It's fun to take a spin on it when we're there, but it certainly isn't on my list of must-rides when I visit the park. FWIW I can only tolerate 1-2 rides on I-305 per visit so I'm not a crazy intense-ride junkie but somewhere in the middle.
Hershey is only a little bit farther than BGW for us and we like the ride collection there much better. Because of this we haven't been to BGW in 4 years and this in no way will get us back in the next 2 years. I sure hope they got a sweet deal on InvadR and they'll build something more interesting in 2018 or 2019. Until then we'll continue to visit HP, KD, SFGAdv (pass holders for many years now) and this year we're making the big trek down to Dollywood for the first time.
Hershey is only a little bit farther than BGW for us and we like the ride collection there much better. Because of this we haven't been to BGW in 4 years and this in no way will get us back in the next 2 years. I sure hope they got a sweet deal on InvadR and they'll build something more interesting in 2018 or 2019. Until then we'll continue to visit HP, KD, SFGAdv (pass holders for many years now) and this year we're making the big trek down to Dollywood for the first time.