RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
Are the same people who green-lighted Griffon and AC still making the decisions about rides today? It feels as if people who don't like, understand, or maybe care about roller coasters and thrill rides are setting the priorities. Or perhaps the park is trying to differentiate itself from KD, by targeting families with young children more than in the past? They certainly seem to be marketing to them more.
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
As I've said before, Verbolten (while a great addition) screwed the park over quite a bit. $50 million for a minuscule bump in attendance. Now it's two years later and they need to add something good, but where's the money for it? Right, they spent it all in 2011 and 2012. So what are they going to do? They're going to find something cheap that can still be marketed to the masses with some degree of success. What can the park get for low low prices that the average parkgoer will still consider somewhat exciting and fresh? Bam.
However, I am absolutely flustered on why they chose the location they did.
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
Comparing the satellite image of the area with the plans, it looks like there's more space on the plan than the actual area which makes it look like it'll run right into AC.
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
I'm also hoping, like others, that the park can come up with some customization twist of the ride to so it's not a complete clone. I wonder if they could do something like adding a third car to increase the poor capacity...anybody know? I also don't care for the location as it seems too shoe horned into where it's mapped out and the removal of the trees is not cool. I'm sure that they could have pushed it further back. However something else was needed for Festa to spruce it up. Hopefully it will be themed good and this can be the start of a larger makeover for that Hamlet. I don't like the scaffolding type support structure of the ride as it looks too busy and not as clean as the most of the other coasters.
The star is possibly related to the Emblem of Italy (Link)
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
Even if it's not Intamin, I was using them primarily as an example the other smaller coaster exist that aren't super-low capacity as Superman is. Also to point out they use who they know, those lasting relationships. To me, it seems silly to discount one company because you've had issues with their flat rides (most everyone's have issues). Mack or Zierer could have come up with something insane to be added into that spot, I had another idea but it's rather silly.
Again, it's all speculation to me. I'm still choosing to believe the park has good sense and won't do anything entirely stupid. To me, the fact they actively want to add more attractions is a good sign. Not being stagnant is a good move in the wider world of theme parks and amusement parks.
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
They have tried new manufactures. They used Moser for Mach Tower, and Zierre for Verbolten. If I'm not mistaken, Zierres first big big project was Verbolten and they only used that company for Groovers previously.
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
So as my prediction seems to be fairly on point, we will need more info on the ride specs (colors, final name, etc), but I had a feeling this would be the ride selected due to the height diagram, it was certainly in line.
I am excited for another attraction. However, I am equally concerned about capacity and placement, aside from the quality of this "clone," but I am thrilled to see Busch adding another coaster. I think something like this will draw crowds, and may not satisfy the discerning tastes of us forum members, but ALOT remains to be seen (and ridden). Quality and the direction the park is choosing to go are important to me, so at this point, I guess I am more interested in the idea that BG is expanding its portfolio, yet it does show a tendency for those in charge to "follow" and not lead. I guess they thought that Verbolten being different back in 2012 was good enough for them to be "not so different" in 2015...
Zachary, we can safely say this is not a Zamperla swing, and now that I think about it, I'm kind of unsure how I feel that its not:-/
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
I know that it is WAY early in the game for this, but has anyone heard whispers about theming? The star has totally throw me off, although I hope we'll go with a classical theme ala Apollo. Maybe like an "Artemis's Bow"?
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
Diavolo translates to devil. The emblem of Italy is a 5 pointed star. The 5 pointed star can be associated with European heraldry. Other than that I have no clue.
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
Diavolo is likely not the final name. Historically theming documents for SEAS projects have used fake/working names. Verbolten was Elementum in the theming docs for the ride and Cheetah Hunt was Cheetaka in its theming docs. There are other examples as well that I've seen pointed out.
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
Zachary said:
Diavolo is likely not the final name. Historically theming documents for SEAS projects have used fake/working names. Verbolten was Elementum in the theming docs for the ride and Cheetah Hunt was Cheetaka in its theming docs. There are other examples as well that I've seen pointed out.
Secrets of Castle O'Sullivan was supposed to be called the "Enchanted Castle of Dooneen". There's no telling what the theme will be, but the again, Apollo's Chariot has no theming aside from the trains.
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
WTF Busch Gardens... If I wanted to ride something like that I would just pay $5 to go to a state fair. This almost degrades the park as a whole with such a mediocre roller coaster being placed in their park. I would have thought that such a renown establishment known for their "World Class Coasters" would come up with something better than a premier clone. I highly doubt I will be visiting the park anytime soon to ride this and I have been a season pass holder for 17 years. I suppose my money will go to Kings Dominion from now on.
I think you are forgetting about the maintenance bay.
I've stood quite about this for awhile but I wanted to bring up a few points.
I honestly feel like most people are overreacting to this news. There are a few topics that have been pushed around that people are concerned with. I keep hearing issues pertaining to low capacity, location, and the worst of them all, the fact that it is a "clone" ride. I feel like all of these issues can be addressed; however, people are too surprised and blown away that they aren't processing possible resolutions to these issues.
I have always been known as one to support most decisions the park makes. Personally, I am neutral with this addition. I have no hatred for this, nor do I really want it. I can fully care less if it is added to the park or not. Why? Because of it's very nature. I don't ride any rides for the most part because I do not like the forces applied upon the riders, as well as I have issues with going fast without my control over the speed, height, and the such. All fairly reasonable fears. So really, this ride is nothing that I expect to be riding anytime. I still have a respect for rides and do realize they are vital to making a theme or amusement park what it is.
So as I have explained, I don't care much for the ride at all. However, I kind of do care for it because it will provide something new and different than other things offered at the park. I think this is what a lot of people tend to loose sight of. Clones maybe be exact copies but those copies are not in the park. For example, having a theme park with five coasters, all exact clones of each other with different themes is very redundant and actually quite terrible. No one would be drawn to visit frequently. Now, if a ride is successful at one park, there should be no shame in adding it to another. It just means it can add an appeal to a park that doesn't currently offer anything similar. Look at Griffon and it's sister coaster in Florida. They are almost clones, almost. One was very successful and the other park decided to add an almost exact copy. They both turned out to be very successful and they draw people in. Sure people who live in Florida may not care because they can go to Tampa Bay which is closer, but for people who live in Virginia or surrounding states will be drawn in because it is something different and closer than the one in Florida. I really don't see an issue with adding a similar or cloned coaster because despite it is offered elsewhere, it is being added to a great park and it will create a more diverse collection for that park. Also, theming and added effect can really change a ride making it unique as well as the story. Since we know absolute nothing about theming all I can say is things just might turn out.
I also wanted to address the thing about the park having clones in the past. It was brought to the discussion that the clones in the past were actually original rides that were there when the park first opened. I feel like this holds little to no value as a strong argument. When a park first opens, sure it is a safe route to add all cloned rides just to ensure the park has something cheap and easily installed rides that will draw a decent crowd at least. That makes perfect sense. However, parks can opt to add all original new rides if they desired. That would also make perfect sense because it creates a new draw that would prove to really draw in curious and interested people. So really judging the addition of clones versus new ride in an opening year should have no sway as to whether clones are good or bad additions because it comes down to as it can be both depending on what the park is aiming for. Clearly, they were aiming for a safe start or just trying to save money opening.
The location is extremely odd and curious; however, the more I think about it, the location is not that curious. The location is really dependent on the purpose of the ride. I am sure there is more thought into location just as much as the reason for adding the ride. For example, the location for Verbolten was important because they needed to replace Big Bad Wolf. In that case the reason was directly related to location. If you look at Mach Tower's location they could have added that to New France instead of the Catapult, why didn't they? Because they could promote not only two new rides back to back; 2011 to 2013, but they could also renovate one of their oldest hamlets and market that as well. There was much thought into adding Mach Tower into that area. I believe adding this ride into that location has a similar reason.
If they are adding this ride into that area, it could be possible they want to renovate Festa Italia so they can market that as well as the new ride to help draw in more people. In fact, they might even completely convert the theme from Festa Italia to something else. Changing a hamlet's theme, especially one with little theming like Festa, should not be very hard to do. Honestly, it makes perfect sense. Festa Italia could be getting a makeover that we have all been extremely hoping for. 2015 could be a marketing miracle. You have the park's 40th Anniversary, perhaps a new hamlet or even a renovated hamlet, plus a new ride. There could be more reasons as to why they choose this location. Plus if they really wanted to redo Festa, they only real place to add a new ride is that location or to get rid of something. I also think it is another thing to help draw crowds into Festa, a fairly dead hamlet.
As far as low capacity goes, I can't really argue this one too much. As I said, I am not that into rides as some of the other members are. I know very little. However, I can guess that there are ways to handle it and they might figure out something new and revolutionary. Maybe they will pull out something really shocking and unexpected. Either way, we don't have the exact full details, just a very good general idea of what we are looking at.
I just want everyone to keep in mind that we are looking at some general idea of things. I mean, there are no specifics on the actual ride, we have no theme, no name, no idea. We can't judge how terrible it is that the park is adding this ride until the deed is done or until we have much better information to work with. So before everyone continues to express their emotions over this addition, take a second to think about how this could or could not work out. Don't jump to conclusions so quickly.
I also wanted to bring attention to the price tag. People claim it is a cheap ride just to attract people and grab as much attendance as they can. I don't really think it is totally that simple. I think if they are planning something bigger like a hamlet theme renovation or retheme, it would make sense to save money where you can so you can put the major bucks into the hamlet work. So before we are quick to say this is just a get rick quick scheme by the park, I honestly think we should really wait until we see the full plans and how things unfold.
Finally I wanted to remind everyone that I am not taking a stance as to whether this addition is good or bad. I am only pointing out things that people have really overlooked or forgot about. It could end up one way or the other, I just felt like making an argument for the least favored side.
Also, I just wanted to point out, I was the one who originally said the ride who have trains and be a coaster kind of.
I put that smiley at the end meaning that I really don't care, but I just thought I'd throw that out there. Do not attack me for something stupid and insignificant.
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
PR, I made it through the part about Griffon and Sheikra and sorta just skimmed the rest after realizing how long your post was. Anyway, that said, calling Griffon and Sheikra "almost clones" is, well, just wrong. Incredibly so in fact.
The Busch parks have a long history of building sister coasters- the same types of rides often built by the same manufacturers. These have, however, always had 100% custom layouts built for the surrounding environment, terrain, theme, etc.
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
...
Is there a better example? I'm sorry, but trying to justify the addition of an off the shelf model that's not even exclusive to the chain by pointing to a history of building sister coasters is just not possible in my honest opinion.
Also, for the record, at the end of the day, if this was a model with proper capacity in a reasonable location that didn't require the complete leveling of a massive number of trees, I wouldn't have that big of an issue with it being a copy and paste job. That said, everything is wrong about this addition. Not just one or two things. Everything.
RE: Project 2015: Premier Rides Coaster for Festa Italia
Look at any coaster you claim to be a clone. It does very well in one place, it gets cloned and added to another place. Just because it is an old ride at one park, doesn't mean it won't attract people to another park, especially those who live in a different region that may not be able to visit the original, but can visit the cloned version.
