Attraction Phoenix Rising
- Thread starter thomasellerjr90
- Start date
^at the 16:17 mark he mentions that he talked to people from design and engineering and they said that the train will not swing.
The media present at that media event should be livid. I'm not surprised, but damn am I annoyed. This is either indicative of a truly gross degree of marketing/communications incompetence or a shocking display of intentional dishonesty.
Thank goodness we can finally put that to bed. Based on my knowledge of the internal workings of the park, the issue is a lack of communication between teams, a lack of quality experienced leadership where it counts, and a side of ignorance towards what "swing" means to a thoosie. Maybe in 20 years all the thoosies will be old enough to hold director level jobs, but for now, most of the folks up there just aren't super familiar with that landscape.
The core of my problem with the whole thing is that BGT employs a team of people whose job it is to understand the product, know how to accurately convey the product to their audience (whether it be the public directly or through the media), be clued in to the impressions and discussions around that product, and correct the record about their product when misinformation exists.
The most charitable read here is that BGT marketing is so incompetent that they didn't know their product/how to communicate it, didn't know that there was confusion in the market that should be cleared up, and didn't know that outlets they work with were widely distributing false information about their product.
At some point though, that pure ignorance explanation really has to strain credulity. I'm comfortable saying that either BGT marketing wilfully ignored the false impressions they were selling or that BGT marketing is so incredibly disconnected from discussions around their new attraction that they probably need to explore other industries.
The initial announcement was sloppy, but I'm more than happy to forgive that. It has been the refusal to correct the record and, seemingly, the doubling and tripling down on misleading information itself that has me so perturbed.
The most charitable read here is that BGT marketing is so incompetent that they didn't know their product/how to communicate it, didn't know that there was confusion in the market that should be cleared up, and didn't know that outlets they work with were widely distributing false information about their product.
At some point though, that pure ignorance explanation really has to strain credulity. I'm comfortable saying that either BGT marketing wilfully ignored the false impressions they were selling or that BGT marketing is so incredibly disconnected from discussions around their new attraction that they probably need to explore other industries.
The initial announcement was sloppy, but I'm more than happy to forgive that. It has been the refusal to correct the record and, seemingly, the doubling and tripling down on misleading information itself that has me so perturbed.
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What is shocking about this is that Phoenix Rising will be the park's 4th B&M coaster. They've worked enough with this company to get all the details right.
Also, if this was a new design with swinging seats, that would've been a significant modification to the family invert train they created for China. B&M would've filed a patent for it detailing this new feature and said patent would've been posted all over the net before the coaster's announcement.
I think it might be worthwhile to really take a step back from this and evaluate it from an outsiders view. Most of the people I work with and in general, most folks in the industry on the engineering side are roller coaster people. When you get to other positions, it varies. there's the Disney people, there's the C suite folks who come from BA degrees and other non-theme park areas. The old folks that run the engineering depts are frequently selected based on managerial acumen more than engineering prowess.
I'm gonna be honest here, I blame this 70% on the thoosies and 30% on the park. The park used language in press releases that mentioned swinging early on. to be fair to them, according to literally anyone but the readers of this forum, the ride swings from side to side. Seriously, take a moment to think about how you would describe this ride as you see it to a layman, even with the understanding of it being fixed to the track. The banked turns and the swinging motion are still central to the ride experience.
The other 30% resides in the park refusing to consult the engineering team, including the project manager, on marketing information. Had they done this, at the very least key words such as "Inverted Family Coaster" and avoiding "Suspended Swinging" would have resulted in less confusion.
That said, several months ago I suggested that someone with media credentials reach out to the park and ask for word on this as it wasn't a secret. It sounds like Midway Mayhem has been hearing what I know to be true for a while. I don't know if anyone here actually reached out for official word, but I really dont think you can blame the park for not putting out a press release that amounts to "new ride will not include feature we never meant to imply".
just my 2 cents
I'm gonna be honest here, I blame this 70% on the thoosies and 30% on the park. The park used language in press releases that mentioned swinging early on. to be fair to them, according to literally anyone but the readers of this forum, the ride swings from side to side. Seriously, take a moment to think about how you would describe this ride as you see it to a layman, even with the understanding of it being fixed to the track. The banked turns and the swinging motion are still central to the ride experience.
The other 30% resides in the park refusing to consult the engineering team, including the project manager, on marketing information. Had they done this, at the very least key words such as "Inverted Family Coaster" and avoiding "Suspended Swinging" would have resulted in less confusion.
That said, several months ago I suggested that someone with media credentials reach out to the park and ask for word on this as it wasn't a secret. It sounds like Midway Mayhem has been hearing what I know to be true for a while. I don't know if anyone here actually reached out for official word, but I really dont think you can blame the park for not putting out a press release that amounts to "new ride will not include feature we never meant to imply".
just my 2 cents
No, but it is correct for a marketing department to reach out privately to partnered outlets who are reporting misinformation and tell them that they have the story wrong. Furthermore, any park representatives working the recent media event should have also been briefed on the confusion and misinformation that resulted from the initial announcement to prevent the continued decimation of the same/similar misleading/confusing claims in the future.
We aren't privy to the exact words of the exchange with Coaster101, but I have no reason to doubt what they posted re: what they were told at the recent media event:
Direct Link to Embedded Media Source
One can probably successfully play devil's advocate to mold a scenario in which the above isn't indicative of a direct lie, but the fact that any question re: swinging is still provided anything but a clear "the trains do not have a swinging mechanism, but we designed the track in such a way that it imitates a swinging motion!" is indicative of communications malpractice in my opinion.
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I was already skeptical about the swinging when those clearances looked awfully tight. Let's just hope that B&M isn't lying about approximating swinging with the profiling, that they don't give us a whippy spinebuster of a ride.
I definitely wouldn't assume B&M sold BGT a coaster that was designed to imitate swinging. It's far, far more likely that the swinging word was entirely cooked up by BGT marketing.
I was always skeptical about the “swinging” being claimed. I wasn’t believing it until I physically saw it during testing. But the most good-faith assessment of this situation I can make is that BGT marketing didn’t understand what the notion of “swinging” means in terms of a roller coaster. Maybe they interpreted an inverted coaster as “swinging”? Maybe the numerous swooping turns in the layout was emulating a swinging motion to them? Maybe they consider Montu to “swing” as well?
Even so, that’s pretty brutal that miscommunication made it all the way to the press release and word of mouth advertising from the park. Otherwise someone just straight up lied.
Even so, that’s pretty brutal that miscommunication made it all the way to the press release and word of mouth advertising from the park. Otherwise someone just straight up lied.
If you are in marketing for a theme park, part of your job includes understanding both the industry as a whole and the specifics of the attractions you are promoting. In other words, ignorance is not an excuse, but rather evidence of poor performance.
Stopped by for a bit after work yesterday - no Skyride views sadly but we have a near miss going up on the final helix! The wooden posts get REALLY close, it’s looking like it’s going to be a crazy footchopper. Plus the station exterior looks like it’s having the finishing touches put on it!
I was unable to see the train from my Falcon’s Fury ride, but I’m assuming it’s still somewhere in there in the station.
I was unable to see the train from my Falcon’s Fury ride, but I’m assuming it’s still somewhere in there in the station.
Attachments
Thanks to Midway Mayhem for the new pictures; and to finally, officially, settle it: The trains do not physically swing.
Normal bolted connection, as seen in the super detailed animation.
Normal bolted connection, as seen in the super detailed animation.
VB06Hokie
Mostly wit & sarcasm, but contributes occasionally
Am I the only one that thinks it's weird to see a B&M invert without wheel covers ?
It feels wrong. The trains look like Vampire's current running stock at Chessington.
Phoenix Rising tested yesterday at approximately 10 PM EST.
Here is Midway Mayhem's video:
Direct Link to Embedded Media Source
Here is Midway Mayhem's video:
Direct Link to Embedded Media Source