London Rocks!
- Thread starter Zachary
- Start date
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
Three sums up the crowd that is pleased at Country Fairs and is fine with that quality everywhere. Worst kinda of person to weigh in an opinion for a park that relies on heavy hamlet theme. Their acknowledgement of zero are on cohesion negates their points by their lonesome.
Zachary pid=91471 dateline=1391449455 said:
Three sums up the crowd that is pleased at Country Fairs and is fine with that quality everywhere. Worst kinda of person to weigh in an opinion for a park that relies on heavy hamlet theme. Their acknowledgement of zero are on cohesion negates their points by their lonesome.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
Yes, those wonderful 1600s telephone booths.
Zachary pid=91480 dateline=1391454115 said:
Yes, those wonderful 1600s telephone booths.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
I think my biggest issue with the show's preview, is that if the actual show is going to be anything remotely near what was shown, I feel it's just going to be an awful English stereotype.
There are still plenty of people out there who firmly believe that England is still like that. That it's nothing but Beatles, flower power, and confetti. And it's just not. It never really was.
I'm not shouting or advocating for extreme historical accuracy here. I just find it extremely bothersome that, they're planning a show on a heavily skewed American stereotype of England in the 1960s.
That's my problem.
The 60's was not that long ago. There are plenty of people who were alive then, who are still alive now. And it just bugs the crap out of me that they're doing something like this.
On top of the fact that they are labeling it as a "British Invasion" type of show. It's impossible for the British Invasion to have happened in England, as that's where most of the music came from. It's their music.
I think my biggest issue with the show's preview, is that if the actual show is going to be anything remotely near what was shown, I feel it's just going to be an awful English stereotype.
There are still plenty of people out there who firmly believe that England is still like that. That it's nothing but Beatles, flower power, and confetti. And it's just not. It never really was.
I'm not shouting or advocating for extreme historical accuracy here. I just find it extremely bothersome that, they're planning a show on a heavily skewed American stereotype of England in the 1960s.
That's my problem.
The 60's was not that long ago. There are plenty of people who were alive then, who are still alive now. And it just bugs the crap out of me that they're doing something like this.
On top of the fact that they are labeling it as a "British Invasion" type of show. It's impossible for the British Invasion to have happened in England, as that's where most of the music came from. It's their music.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
I think it is the British Invasion as they are invading Busch Gardens.
Matt, I am probably a mutt. A mix of 2 and 3. I do believe the park should keep it hamlet themes and that theming is important, however there have been plenty of shows inside theaters that do not match the hamlet theme that people have come to love. This was back when the shows were more broadway style. Celtic Fyre is on that kind of level and I truly believe that London Rocks! may not be a terrible show.
Now I personally have no major fears about the show concerning the hamlet. The most I could probably see is some signage and painting mainly done in front of the theater. Otherwise, I highly doubt there will be any major changes.
Your more than welcome to PM me for more of my thoughts if you'd like.
I think it is the British Invasion as they are invading Busch Gardens.
Matt, I am probably a mutt. A mix of 2 and 3. I do believe the park should keep it hamlet themes and that theming is important, however there have been plenty of shows inside theaters that do not match the hamlet theme that people have come to love. This was back when the shows were more broadway style. Celtic Fyre is on that kind of level and I truly believe that London Rocks! may not be a terrible show.
Now I personally have no major fears about the show concerning the hamlet. The most I could probably see is some signage and painting mainly done in front of the theater. Otherwise, I highly doubt there will be any major changes.
Your more than welcome to PM me for more of my thoughts if you'd like.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
I mean, we had a group of vampires sing about being a drag queen...
I mean, we had a group of vampires sing about being a drag queen...
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
Yes, in a hamlet named Vampire Point.
I certainly never said that the park has always stuck to the themes it has set forth. The case for Banbury being set in the 1600s is a very easy one to make. How you ask?
Anyway, as I said, the park has never hit a particular time period on the head and, I, as well as most other people from what I can gather, are really ok with this. Der Autobahn in Oktoberfest is a prime example. It's themed to something that clearly doesn't match the overarching time period in which the hamlet has always been set however, like a few phone booths, it's an element that is extremely easy to overlook. It in no way intrudes upon the overall feel of the hamlet. Furthermore, it's far from a centerpiece attraction. Problems arise when the themes of the most notable attractions in one area of the park or another change to vastly out of place themes or time periods- Europe in the Air for example.
At the end of the day, though trying to nail down time periods for each hamlet is an extremely interesting discussion to have, that's not really what matters, it's the feel and atmosphere of the hamlets. Allow me to quote the park's Media Kit from 2002 (not the 70s or 80s- this was 2002):
Preserving that is what matters most. London Rocks is Banbury's centerpiece attraction next year and probably for year's to come. Hamlet's primary attractions have far-reaching atmospheric effects throughout the entirety of the hamlets in which they're located- whether intentional or not (see: Entwined). Even ignoring the fact that there is an intentional push to theme Banbury after London Rocks, the impact would exist regardless.
Cody pid=91489 dateline=1391458785 said:
Yes, in a hamlet named Vampire Point.
Alpenghöst pid=91485 dateline=1391457229 said:
I certainly never said that the park has always stuck to the themes it has set forth. The case for Banbury being set in the 1600s is a very easy one to make. How you ask?
- Since the park opened, The Globe Theatre has been Banbury's centerpiece structure. The actual Globe was opened in 1599, burned in 1613, rebuilt in 1614, and closed in 1642.
- For ages now there have been constantly reoccurring Pirate sub-themes within the hamlet. Examples include Pirates 4D (the hamlet's main attraction for years up until halfway through this last season) as well as years and years of intricate pirate-themed Howl-O-Scream overlays. The Golden Age of Piracy took place between 1660 and 1726.
Anyway, as I said, the park has never hit a particular time period on the head and, I, as well as most other people from what I can gather, are really ok with this. Der Autobahn in Oktoberfest is a prime example. It's themed to something that clearly doesn't match the overarching time period in which the hamlet has always been set however, like a few phone booths, it's an element that is extremely easy to overlook. It in no way intrudes upon the overall feel of the hamlet. Furthermore, it's far from a centerpiece attraction. Problems arise when the themes of the most notable attractions in one area of the park or another change to vastly out of place themes or time periods- Europe in the Air for example.
At the end of the day, though trying to nail down time periods for each hamlet is an extremely interesting discussion to have, that's not really what matters, it's the feel and atmosphere of the hamlets. Allow me to quote the park's Media Kit from 2002 (not the 70s or 80s- this was 2002):
Busch Gardens Williamsburg said:
Preserving that is what matters most. London Rocks is Banbury's centerpiece attraction next year and probably for year's to come. Hamlet's primary attractions have far-reaching atmospheric effects throughout the entirety of the hamlets in which they're located- whether intentional or not (see: Entwined). Even ignoring the fact that there is an intentional push to theme Banbury after London Rocks, the impact would exist regardless.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
That's not what this show is(I don't think), this show is about the British Invasion coming to America and/or BG. The flower power and confetti is representative of the American landscape(hippies and youth), not England's. Also, "British Invasion" is known in the music world, so from a marketing stand point, they would be dumb not to use that phrase. As soon as you say it, people will know what type of music they're talking about. While it may be stereotypical, not using it would just be ignorant.
Zach, great post. That helps me understand where you're coming from and I get it. Question: Do you think a Shakespearean show would do well in the year 2014?
I just did a little Googling and the Union Jack flag was adopted by the King in the 1600, so I don't think it's that far of a stretch to say that some people painted their houses and building the red and blue colors. Do you think maybe we are stereotyping what we think an Old Town village actually looks like?
Also, the Red Phone booth wasn't designed until 1924. They didn't really start getting installed until the 1940's and they installed them through the 1980's, so that piece is really a modern design.
^^this is only because I "researched"(typed it into Google) it and I like to show everyone how smart I am.
That's not what this show is(I don't think), this show is about the British Invasion coming to America and/or BG. The flower power and confetti is representative of the American landscape(hippies and youth), not England's. Also, "British Invasion" is known in the music world, so from a marketing stand point, they would be dumb not to use that phrase. As soon as you say it, people will know what type of music they're talking about. While it may be stereotypical, not using it would just be ignorant.
Zach, great post. That helps me understand where you're coming from and I get it. Question: Do you think a Shakespearean show would do well in the year 2014?
I just did a little Googling and the Union Jack flag was adopted by the King in the 1600, so I don't think it's that far of a stretch to say that some people painted their houses and building the red and blue colors. Do you think maybe we are stereotyping what we think an Old Town village actually looks like?
Also, the Red Phone booth wasn't designed until 1924. They didn't really start getting installed until the 1940's and they installed them through the 1980's, so that piece is really a modern design.
^^this is only because I "researched"(typed it into Google) it and I like to show everyone how smart I am.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
If that's what they're truly planning, the British Invasion of America and/or BG, then they should not be retheming England to make England fit the show or vice versa. Because it wouldn't matter. The show is the show, and the hamlet is the hamlet.
But so far, between what has been said about the show, and the given preview, it doesn't seem like an invasion coming to the US or BG. (Outside that it's in the park.) It sounds like a show that is based in London, in the 1960s. There were plenty of stock images used showcasing modern day London and England in general.
So it tends to lean more towards this is going to be a show about London, rather than a show about British music coming to the US.
I think I'd be more okay with the show, if it was more like American Jukebox. Where it covered several decades of music. Rather than specifically an era that is probably the most stereotyped.
Matt Conkle pid=91494 dateline=1391462913 said:
If that's what they're truly planning, the British Invasion of America and/or BG, then they should not be retheming England to make England fit the show or vice versa. Because it wouldn't matter. The show is the show, and the hamlet is the hamlet.
But so far, between what has been said about the show, and the given preview, it doesn't seem like an invasion coming to the US or BG. (Outside that it's in the park.) It sounds like a show that is based in London, in the 1960s. There were plenty of stock images used showcasing modern day London and England in general.
So it tends to lean more towards this is going to be a show about London, rather than a show about British music coming to the US.
I think I'd be more okay with the show, if it was more like American Jukebox. Where it covered several decades of music. Rather than specifically an era that is probably the most stereotyped.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
Honestly, the use of "British Invasion" is probably more of a marketing tool to help guests understand the type of music and general theme of the show being British/London/England/ect, but not nessacarily the plot.
The retheming of England is more of a marketing tool to basically advertise the show through the look of the village. Which, is basically how Entwined worked. With the addition of Verbolten, everything in Oktoberfest had to be "Black Forest" themed. So we ended up with Entwined, Wunderbarn, the Oktoberfest retheme. Those were all things to help promote Verbolten and it's storyline.
Honestly, the use of "British Invasion" is probably more of a marketing tool to help guests understand the type of music and general theme of the show being British/London/England/ect, but not nessacarily the plot.
The retheming of England is more of a marketing tool to basically advertise the show through the look of the village. Which, is basically how Entwined worked. With the addition of Verbolten, everything in Oktoberfest had to be "Black Forest" themed. So we ended up with Entwined, Wunderbarn, the Oktoberfest retheme. Those were all things to help promote Verbolten and it's storyline.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
My biggest peeve is that they have stated they are re-themeing an entire hamlet based off a single show! Now even in Theme Parks where the same show runs a long time you won't have a show last more than 5 or so years (and most shows run 2-4 years) so that means they would have to re-theme the entire hamlet to match the new show.
For that reason alone I would hope they do stuff that can be redone cheap and easy. And that is reinforced by the fact that there has not been any permits pulled for the hamlet itself. IF they were adding or changing buildings (beyond paint and some interior work) they would need to file permits and by now I would think we would have seen them pop up.
My biggest peeve is that they have stated they are re-themeing an entire hamlet based off a single show! Now even in Theme Parks where the same show runs a long time you won't have a show last more than 5 or so years (and most shows run 2-4 years) so that means they would have to re-theme the entire hamlet to match the new show.
For that reason alone I would hope they do stuff that can be redone cheap and easy. And that is reinforced by the fact that there has not been any permits pulled for the hamlet itself. IF they were adding or changing buildings (beyond paint and some interior work) they would need to file permits and by now I would think we would have seen them pop up.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
I'm wondering if they will also be changing the music lineup for that hamlet to Beatles and 60-ish tunes?? Oh man...that would be ghastly to me. I guess I'm too much of a purist. But while I DO accept that things will eventually change...I am VERY opinionated on exactly what changes, how much it changes, and how far the changes go into a hamlet and what else it affects. I think if they just had the show in the Globe, and left the hamlet untouched...I'd probably be somewhat upset, but I could live with that. But I'm VERY far away from the type of person who accepts a total re-theming of a hamlet to advertise/promote a ride or show. To me...if the ride or show is THAT good, then there's no NEED to change an entire hamlet. It should stand on its own! If it's outstanding, the people will come. But it seems like the park has been trying to 'pump up' its rides/shows in recent years by re-theming.
Quite frankly, BGW will always be 'The Olde Country' to me, and I really miss that aspect about the park. What I always loved about BGW in the past was that it was SO different from all the other theme parks. The road I see it taking lately is trying to do what the other parks are doing. That...is a recipe for disaster, imho. But that's just me...
Just correcting you a little bit in that the 1st group (me) is also super enraged at what the park is plotting to do in Banbury. I'm actually in between the 1st and 2nd group...but definitely more towards the 1st. I remember being upset when leaving the park some years ago, and they were playing Beatles music in Banbury. I mentioned my concern in a letter, and the response was that the park felt it would help visitors leave on a more 'up' kind of feeling. I didn't like it, though. I LOVE entering the park and walking through Banbury Cross while hearing the classical music playing in the background. Leaving is the same for me.Zachary pid=91471 dateline=1391449455 said:
I'm wondering if they will also be changing the music lineup for that hamlet to Beatles and 60-ish tunes?? Oh man...that would be ghastly to me. I guess I'm too much of a purist. But while I DO accept that things will eventually change...I am VERY opinionated on exactly what changes, how much it changes, and how far the changes go into a hamlet and what else it affects. I think if they just had the show in the Globe, and left the hamlet untouched...I'd probably be somewhat upset, but I could live with that. But I'm VERY far away from the type of person who accepts a total re-theming of a hamlet to advertise/promote a ride or show. To me...if the ride or show is THAT good, then there's no NEED to change an entire hamlet. It should stand on its own! If it's outstanding, the people will come. But it seems like the park has been trying to 'pump up' its rides/shows in recent years by re-theming.
Quite frankly, BGW will always be 'The Olde Country' to me, and I really miss that aspect about the park. What I always loved about BGW in the past was that it was SO different from all the other theme parks. The road I see it taking lately is trying to do what the other parks are doing. That...is a recipe for disaster, imho. But that's just me...
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
I don't think anyone's looking for a full production of King Lear or anything, but an entertaining show+ humor + sticking to the theme would work perfectly there IMHO.
Of course, the issue here is "What is 'sticking to the theme'.
I realize I'm not Zach, but I do think a Shakespearean show would work really well- think Ghosts of the Globe or even a revamped Haunts of the Old Country.Matt Conkle pid=91494 dateline=1391462913 said:
I don't think anyone's looking for a full production of King Lear or anything, but an entertaining show+ humor + sticking to the theme would work perfectly there IMHO.
Of course, the issue here is "What is 'sticking to the theme'.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
This questions is really for anyone, this is an open forum, the point is to discuss what others are saying/asking. So that's perfect.
Actually, I think that question could spur some really good discussion. I can't start a new thread, so maybe one of the moderators could if you think it fits. I'm all for ideas, and since we're in the off season without much else to do, maybe we can have a thread that asks the question:
Opinion Thread: What would be the ideal show in Globe Theater?
There's no right or wrong answer, it's just interesting to hear other peoples ideas.
VTBGWFan pid=91520 dateline=1391491444 said:
This questions is really for anyone, this is an open forum, the point is to discuss what others are saying/asking. So that's perfect.
Actually, I think that question could spur some really good discussion. I can't start a new thread, so maybe one of the moderators could if you think it fits. I'm all for ideas, and since we're in the off season without much else to do, maybe we can have a thread that asks the question:
Opinion Thread: What would be the ideal show in Globe Theater?
There's no right or wrong answer, it's just interesting to hear other peoples ideas.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
Think about the kids man!
My kids would not sit through a Shakespearian style show. They will sit through Beatles music because they played it on Rock Band! I know what the park is doing. The stuff that grabbed you when you were young, mostly, will not grab a kid in 2014. The last 5 years or so at the park have been an attempt to lure in the younger crowd. A kid see a neon green sign that says "Busch Gardens", that looks cool. A kid sees a sign that says "Busch Gardens: the Old Country", they focus on the word "Old". The young have very short attention spans and need to be wrangled in with "shiny" stuff. My businesses main colors are lime green, orange and red because they pop and catch your attention. People noticed the London Rocks! tree at CT. They danced to the music as they passed. It worked! Here are some more examples:
Bitten = Twilight
Verbolten = fast cars, black lights
Entwined = Once Upon a Time, Snow White and the Huntsman, Hansel and Gretel, every other "hot" fairy tale show and movie out.
Blood Banquet = Vampire Diaries/True Blood/Equality movement in america
Fiends = sex sells
Young people just walk through Banbury to get to the shiny stuff! I am not saying you have to like it, but it makes good business sense. Since their marketing department can't get the job done, they have to get the kids already going to tell their friends, "Come to Busch Gardens. They have new shiny stuff". Right now Banbury is a Librarian in a brown and tan dress, they want to make it the hot chick in the red dress. Again, not saying it is right or wrong, but that is the 21st century mentality.
Think about the kids man!
My kids would not sit through a Shakespearian style show. They will sit through Beatles music because they played it on Rock Band! I know what the park is doing. The stuff that grabbed you when you were young, mostly, will not grab a kid in 2014. The last 5 years or so at the park have been an attempt to lure in the younger crowd. A kid see a neon green sign that says "Busch Gardens", that looks cool. A kid sees a sign that says "Busch Gardens: the Old Country", they focus on the word "Old". The young have very short attention spans and need to be wrangled in with "shiny" stuff. My businesses main colors are lime green, orange and red because they pop and catch your attention. People noticed the London Rocks! tree at CT. They danced to the music as they passed. It worked! Here are some more examples:Bitten = Twilight
Verbolten = fast cars, black lights
Entwined = Once Upon a Time, Snow White and the Huntsman, Hansel and Gretel, every other "hot" fairy tale show and movie out.
Blood Banquet = Vampire Diaries/True Blood/Equality movement in america
Fiends = sex sells
Young people just walk through Banbury to get to the shiny stuff! I am not saying you have to like it, but it makes good business sense. Since their marketing department can't get the job done, they have to get the kids already going to tell their friends, "Come to Busch Gardens. They have new shiny stuff". Right now Banbury is a Librarian in a brown and tan dress, they want to make it the hot chick in the red dress. Again, not saying it is right or wrong, but that is the 21st century mentality.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
I just want to point out that the reason the park has done so well in the past is that they DIDNT cater to 5 year olds. They focused on building record breaking coasters, providing an overall immersive theme park experience, and creating special events (specifically HOS) that catered to the older crowd.Cody pid=91526 dateline=1391522489 said:Think about the kids man!
Bitten = Twilight
Verbolten = fast cars, black lights
Entwined = Once Upon a Time, Snow White and the Huntsman, Hansel and Gretel, every other "hot" fairy tale show and movie out.
Blood Banquet = Vampire Diaries/True Blood/Equality movement in america
Fiends = sex sells
Young people just walk through Banbury to get to the shiny stuff! I am not saying you have to like it, but it makes good business sense. Since their marketing department can't get the job done, they have to get the kids already going to tell their friends, "Come to Busch Gardens. They have new shiny stuff". Right now Banbury is a Librarian in a brown and tan dress, they want to make it the hot chick in the red dress. Again, not saying it is right or wrong, but that is the 21st century mentality.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
The park always used to do a good job of keeping a wide age demographic. Now, it is slowly becoming a hangout place for what should be Kings Dominion's audience. Is Busch Gardens tries to be more like Kings Dominion, not only is that throwing their standards into the wind, but it is also something that the park really shouldn't strive for. The two parks have had a relatively good history of coexisting together. That's because they both cater two completely different audiences. For example, if you don't care too much about the quality of roller coasters but all you want is quantity, or if you don't care about rushing past trees you would go to Kings Dominion. Busch Gardens guests have completely different expectations from that. They love the adrenaline rush of speeding past beautiful scenery on a world-class roller coaster.
The basic rule that the park seems to be forgetting is that quality is greater than quantity.
The park always used to do a good job of keeping a wide age demographic. Now, it is slowly becoming a hangout place for what should be Kings Dominion's audience. Is Busch Gardens tries to be more like Kings Dominion, not only is that throwing their standards into the wind, but it is also something that the park really shouldn't strive for. The two parks have had a relatively good history of coexisting together. That's because they both cater two completely different audiences. For example, if you don't care too much about the quality of roller coasters but all you want is quantity, or if you don't care about rushing past trees you would go to Kings Dominion. Busch Gardens guests have completely different expectations from that. They love the adrenaline rush of speeding past beautiful scenery on a world-class roller coaster.
The basic rule that the park seems to be forgetting is that quality is greater than quantity.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
The thing is that if BGW wants to compete with KD on the same level, BGW will lose terribly because BGW doesn't have and can't get what the KD audience wants.
The thing is that if BGW wants to compete with KD on the same level, BGW will lose terribly because BGW doesn't have and can't get what the KD audience wants.
RE: London Rocks! (2014 to Present)
As I've said, if BGW wants to 'copy' what 'works' everywhere else...then they lose anything 'special' that has attracted legions of loyal customers over the years. For me, if that is the case, then why would I travel 6 hours to BGW...when Six Flags is only 2 hours away?? BGW has to have a pretty compelling reason for me to come back. And that compelling reason over the years has been that they were DIFFERENT than all the rest. Sadly, that reason has been diluted heavily over the past 5 or so years.
^^THIS^^Pretzel Kaiser pid=91562 dateline=1391553306 said:
As I've said, if BGW wants to 'copy' what 'works' everywhere else...then they lose anything 'special' that has attracted legions of loyal customers over the years. For me, if that is the case, then why would I travel 6 hours to BGW...when Six Flags is only 2 hours away?? BGW has to have a pretty compelling reason for me to come back. And that compelling reason over the years has been that they were DIFFERENT than all the rest. Sadly, that reason has been diluted heavily over the past 5 or so years.