Howl-O-Scream 2013: Rumors Have a Way of Spreading

[Ghost of Pretzel Kaiser]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

Maybe they are looking for more than just clubs, you can want two things at the same time it is possible. There is a balance in the force somewhere. Plus how many clubs are in Williamsburg? If you going to a park to get drunk, you should be able to go and clubbing too. After all, drinking isn't something out of the ordinary isn't?

But like I said, I originally didn't want this to happen, I was hoping for fire and facades and everything, but I am trying to embrace the worst of the situation so I am not too disappointed.

In all seriousness, I just realized that Scott is actually a genius, but his plan takes a few years. I think it would work something like this.
1) Take control of park.
2) Drive away customers who had any standards by slowly doing things that the park never did or had to do.
3) Create attractions which only appeal to teens/hip twenty somethings.
4)Sell sponsorships to Mountain Dew, MTV, whatever. Nobody will care at this point because the park has driven everybody who enjoyed the party for being beautiful and unique.
5) ???
6) Profit

That's what the park is doing. They're killing everything that made the park stand out from Six Flags.

 

[Nicole]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

Being complacent doesn't bring about change.

Being consistently negative doesn't bring about change either. Unless you wish to lose credibility, you need to pick your fights and focus on the specific things you really want to see changed. Possibly more importantly, positive reinforcement is more effective than punishment. There is value in highlighting what you like and what people are doing well. When people are recognized for their successes they are generally more motivated to try to achieve more.

There is such a thing as learned helplessness. If all you ever hear is negative feedback, you eventually stop even trying to be successful, because you feel that you can't. Even if you are, you never get that feedback.

Positive reinforcement is also more generalizable than punishment. If you punish a specific behavior, that exact behavior in those specific circumstances are less likely to be repeated, but similar behaviors are not likely to change. Reinforcement, however affects similar behaviors, making more likely to be repeated.

Sorry. Stepping off the soapbox.

 

[chickenking]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

Well said. You must have taken the same behavior management course I had in college. Not to mention having kids.

 

[Planeteer]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

I agree. If they do a disco hell, will that ruin all of HOS? We need to say, "Giardino Magico and the Village bands were awesome, do more of that and less pop." Instead of the negative taking the lead, give the positive credit!

 

[Ghost of Pretzel Kaiser]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

The problem with that the park did good things this year and did get lots of praise from here for it. Even last HoS did get lots of praise from the forums.

The forums aren't always negative, for whatever reason this year we've gotten bad thing after bad thing, with the things being shockingly outside of the park's normal realm. Often the ones who are negative are because we have a standard for the park established already. 75% of the reason I have a pass is because HoS is (used to be) so much fun and we're not happy that one of the brand new immersive attractions is a club. The park we spent so much time and money at is not living up to the standards of it's customers.

 

[Nicole]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

Well said. You must have taken the same behavior management course I had in college. Not to mention having kids.

Actually, my mom is an Organizational Psychologist and taught behaviorism at a local college.

(Thanks, BTW)

 

[Zachary]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

For the record, I agree 100% with Nic- but if there truly isn't anything worthy of praise, we can't force ourselves to praise the best thing that's currently present. We have to hold our standards in the same place they've always been and continually push the park to reach them- not make our standards more accessible given the current state of the park. When we do that, those standards we hold the place to will never move back up to where we truly want them again. When money has to be made, corporations will only do enough to get by- the internal need to better themselves vanishes if no one expects them to do so.

We need to say, "Giardino Magico and the Village bands were awesome, do more of that and less pop." Instead of the negative taking the lead, give the positive credit!

We did. The Aquitaine Village Band, the Aquitaine waitstaff, the Aquitaine renovations, the Emporium renovations, the Killarney Village Band, the Italian Ensemble, and Giardino Magico have all been highly praised by the large majority of the forum throughout the season. Ever since IllumiNights hit though, every cent seems to have dried up and everything is collapsing.

 

[Planeteer]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

Look, I hated KK as much as the next guy, but I didn't allow that to ruin my day at the park. I have said it a thousand times, "A bad day at the park is better than a good day at work." I sent my e-mail to Mr. Atchison, I have complained about what sucks, but I never let that ruin my life. I am really looking forward to HOS! I am even bringing my best friend, who hasn't been before. I don't think Nic sees the whole forum as negative, just a few people who decide to be more vocal about it. I personally see the park as a meeting place for like minded people, who love the park. If you are gonna bitch about everything while you are there, hang with someone else, because I am there to enjoy myself.

 

[Nicole]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

The problem with that the park did good things this year and did get lots of praise from here for it. Even last HoS did get lots of praise from the forums.

The forums aren't always negative, for whatever reason this year we've gotten bad thing after bad thing, with the things being shockingly outside of the park's normal realm. Often the ones who are negative are because we have a standard for the park established already. 75% of the reason I have a pass is because HoS is (used to be) so much fun and we're not happy that one of the brand new immersive attractions is a club. The park we spent so much time and money at is not living up to the standards of it's customers.

I really have avoided saying anything, but in for a penny; in for a pound.

I don't know what the probably well-meaning intention is, but I can say that viewed from the outside, this site looks increasingly like a feeding frenzy. It feels as if people are piling on, trying to find every little thing wrong with the park that they can. To be honest, it comes across as gleeful and mean.

I am certain that everyone here likes and cares about the park. Why else would we visit a ParkFans site? Why else would people get so emotional about what they see as poor management, poor product, and inexcusable treatment of employees?

But recently if I were a Park manager reading this site, I would just see mean-spirited attacks that appear to be some cruel form of entertainment for the the group. I would write-off everything that is posted here.

*I* certainly don't want that to happen. There are a few serious issues that really need to be highlighted. But you simply can't do that, when every thread turns into another complaint about what the park is doing wrong.

I'm sorry to upset y'all (I sure I am), but I guess I felt I needed to say something.

 

[Planeteer]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

We need to say, "Giardino Magico and the Village bands were awesome, do more of that and less pop." Instead of the negative taking the lead, give the positive credit!

We did. The Aquitaine Village Band, the Aquitaine waitstff, the Aquitaine renovations, the Emporium renovations, the Killarney Village Band, the Italian Ensemble, and Giardino Magico have all been highly praised by the large majority of the forum throughout the season. Ever since IllumiNights hit though, every cent seems to have dried up and everything is collapsing.

I hear you Zach, I do. I know, you and a others praised that stuff. But we have heard it the budget stuff already. There is nothing that can be done about the budget now. They seem to be trying to get back on track by doing things a little different to save money. I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. Allow yourselves to see it as well, and maybe you guys can love the park again.

 

[Nicole]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

Look, I hated KK as much as the next guy, but I didn't allow that to ruin my day at the park. I have said it a thousand times, "A bad day at the park is better than a good day at work." I sent my e-mail to Mr. Atchison, I have complained about what sucks, but I never let that ruin my life. I am really looking forward to HOS! I am even bringing my best friend, who hasn't been before. I don't think Nic sees the whole forum as negative, just a few people who decide to be more vocal about it. I personally see the park as a meeting place for like minded people, who love the park. If you are gonna bitch about everything while you are there, hang with someone else, because I am there to enjoy myself.

Well said.

And no, I like this forum. And I don't object to people pointing out where standards are slipping. I just feel that there needs to be more balance.

I have to say that this is really ironic coming from me. If y'all knew me, you'd understand. My mother used to look at me about once a week and say, "Nicole, tell me something good." But "good" isn't as funny as "stupid" or "ironic." I guess maybe I have improved as an adult. Who knows?

 

[Ghost of Pretzel Kaiser]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

I'll send you a PM of all my recent praise of the park if you want.

The park reads this site and they have taken that feedback and made changes based off of that. (My post helped Root last year, Zach can confirm). The thing you have to keep in mind is that this level of critisim is nothing new, I was even on your side before (Zach can confirm as well). There's a certain point where you have to raise alarm bells because you see the park going in a very bad direction because if you don't say anything, nobody's going to know that's a bad thing. If they ignore you, they're going to do it no matter how loud you are.

 

[Owls R A Hoot]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

So back to Howl-O-Scream...does anyone have any updated pictures of the park and the decorations for the Terror-torries.
We know about Demon Street and Ripper Row but any more information on the Ports of Skull or Vampire Point?

 

[Zachary]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

I hear you Zach, I do. I know, you and a others praised that stuff. But we have heard it the budget stuff already. There is nothing that can be done about the budget now.

I agree- I really do. As I said in an earlier post, I've been fortunate enough to see what was originally supposed to be done in Aquitaine for this year's event and, as I have assured you all, it was absolutely fantastic. I can't say "the money that was put towards ________ thing at this year's event should have been put towards acting upon those original plans" because that money isn't going elsewhere- it simply doesn't exist. Sure, I could say "the money that was put towards IllumiNights should have been saved for this year's Howl-O-Scream" but what good does that actually do? None. Thus, I can't really go on the offensive towards the park's management on this topic because, put in their shoes, I'd do the same thing.

All that said, what I can and will criticize are people in this community who will allow their expectations to become eroded by what the park is having to do right now. We all know the park is in dark times, but that doesn't mean we have to pretend to be happy about it. Again, complacency is what we have to proactively keep ourselves away from at all costs. Why? Because one day the money will come back and when that day comes, we have to be ready to expect greatness- not greatness in comparison to what we have now, but true greatness.

So back to Howl-O-Scream...does anyone have any updated pictures of the park and the decorations for the Terror-torries.

Now that the park is closed during the week, we'll just have to wait till Saturday to see what all has been done I'm afraid.

 

[Haberdasher1973]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

I was even on your side before (Zach can confirm as well).

I can back him up on that, too.

So here's a question: How come the park can't do anything good enough for us?

Edit: And by "us", I mean "you guys"

 

[Ghost of Pretzel Kaiser]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

Those were the days, Dasher.

 

[Nora]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

I feel like I have always been on neutral ground and in this debate at the moment, I am smack dab in the middle of both sides. My posts are written as much for people here on the forums as someone at the park who cares enough to take in consideration their most avid fan base.

Personally, my hopes are not all that high for HOS this year. My reasoning is that the park is struggling to keep up with demands of high quality, no budget, and people expecting more every year. This formula will always be a recipe for disaster; it is like squeezing blood from a stone.

I, like everyone here, chooses Busch Gardens for quality. To see it dip way below their traditional standard, is like watching paint peel of the Mona Lisa. No one can fix the park's money issues....

But we can stand up and say that we are not happy in the direction it is going.

Like Cody, it will always be fun for me regardless of the quality. I could never turn my back on a park that has given me so much joy and happiness.

However, I also feel that if a lower standard is to be the "new norm" for the future of Busch Gardens, they should not to expect people to pay their high price tag for mediocrity either. That will be their undoing.

The folks here on the forum whether they agree with you or not, all love the park. Some people are more passionate about Christmas Town, some Howl-O-Scream, some thememing, some rides.. we all have our particular interests.

With that said; what I would love to see is a HOS, given the state of the park and their budget, to do a "less is more" approach. I would rather have three well done- high quality attractions than several that are rehashed and halfheartedly built.

If the money is spent on bars and "terror-tories" then have one really good bar and not several just tossed together in a few days.

My only hope is that this turn to stretching a penny for the sake of just "having something new" is just a phase and things will find a balance soon.

HOS is just around the corner. I hope we are all pleasantly surprised.. but then again... I'm not sure they can pull a rabbit out of a hat like the Food & Wine festival again this year. We will see soon enough how things turn out.

 

[BGWScream]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

I have mixed feelings about what I've heard so far about Howl-O-Scream. Part of me hates it while the other half wants to like it. I'm trying to reserve my judgment til I see it for myself.

 

[SukaVayne]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

Same here just gonna wait and see. I agree with everyone here, it's just knowing what park is going through right now we don't want be disappointed. I think after knowing what has happened during the last few days of the regular park season, I think people are worried is it gonna happen again, attractions, shows, scares gonna go dark, are we gonna have walk outs again, and see people confused why isn't this or that open during middle of HOS when it was open at beginning. That would be awful a house for HOS just closed. I love what all you guys said. With that I can say this I m excited to see HOS and do the events and if doesn't improve, well that's fine I will still go to ride the coasters. This is HOS 15th year, so who knows maybe BGW will improve to do something bigger for her sweet 16th.

For the most part for me to say anything wrong I do, no one wants to be left down. I just don't like how the park is hyping it up so much, only than to us "oh we are cutting back now due to so n so reason", to sugar coat if you will, when we know its $$. Same thing with MIU some people were just told, oh need to set up HOS earlier, we all knew what was happening. I can say from one thing you guys have a lot of employees on your side, they want everyone to be excited for HOS, and not let down.

I can't wait only a week to go until HOS I m there, and hope to see people enjoy themselves.

 

[chickenking]

RE: Howl-O-Scream 2013: Fear Has a Way of Spreading

...but I didn't allow that to ruin my day at the park. I have said it a thousand times, "A bad day at the park is better than a good day at work."

I just feel that there needs to be more balance.

Enter the Almighty chickenking!!

Almost a year ago I joined this group. My goal is to have fun, no matter how crappy things get. When I am a little upset I go ride the train. When I can't find anything fun to do, I make my own fun; engaged with several multimedia projects around the park, messing with and swapping stories with employees, scaring people in the Wild Reserve...err I mean meeting them in the fog on the sidewalk, working my way up the ladder to meet the right people to bring my concerns to (did I mention the power is rising?), etc. I have seen the changes and consequences of posting on these forums. Some have affected ME personally, and some I would like to think I had a hand in bringing about...recently.

Always have fun. Even if you have to be proactive about it. Nothing wrong with bitching about stuff, just do it in a constructive way. Some of the things that are said here do come across as arrogant and condescending to some. Regardless of intent, you have to step outside sometimes and try to see it as someone on the outside. Even between members here in the forums, I'd personally like to see some of the infighting toned down. Everyone has their opinion and some are more informed than others. That doesn't mean that someone should be browbeaten for stating their opinions. If you don't like something here, ignore it. And for goodness sake, don't have signatures that are meant to embarrass someone here.

-Catch my breath- That being said, I look forward to HOS, no matter how bad it may be. I'm still gonna find those hidden treasures and have fun!! Can't spend all of our time hatin'. Enjoy yourselves!! If there is nothing that suits you at the park, give me a holla'! I'll be happy to let you see how I have a good time. Maybe you'll learn something new, share something with me, and laugh a little.