Gift of Harmony
- Thread starter Alf33
- Start date
It would be a huge mistake for Il Teatro di San Marco to ever house one of BGW's headlining shows. Just from a capacity and logistical standpoint, shows in San Marco should be smaller, cheaper, less marketable productions.
Not to aim this directly at you, but you're just the most recent person to bring it up, but Gloria or a Gloria-like show wouldn't work in San Marco. Not just because of the logistic side (the stage type, cold weather is bad for singers (and dancers) etc.) But because of what the content of the show is.
The show is about the story of Jesus. It's religious content. Not everyone who goes to Christmas Town is religious, and those of us who don't celebrate the religious side of the holiday (or don't celebrate the holiday at all) shouldn't have to be subjected to that side of the holiday if we happened to have poor timing. Because of the theater type the music is gonna loudly bleed into the area, and while it fits since San Marco is themed to the religious side of the holiday (Even if Frosted Pop Tart Jesus is an odd choice), some people just breeze through that area for one reason or another.
Having it in the Abbey Stone makes a ton more sense, you are then actively choosing to participate in the experience. You are making that active choice to go sit down and watch a show about the story of Jesus. It's the exact same reason why Fiends didn't work in the Festhaus when they brought it back and used Tampa's nurse designs. Its inappropriate for the location. The subject matter is ultimately fine for the holiday in question (Fiends for Halloween and Gloria for Christmas) But not everybody wants to see that or hear it or be exposed to it in any capacity.
As for something to use the specific theater for, they got the rights to the costumes for Rudolph, why not just play it and the other specials in that theater, like they did old movies during HoS for one year. It uses the theater. It involves very little people, which means no strained vocal chords or risk tearing a muscle or ligament or something else. It gives people who want to eat in Italy and watch something, something to look at.
Not at all trying to be cynical, confrontational, or minimize that perspective - but I don’t know how to ask this without it possibly coming across that way.
How would religious music bleeding out into the area be anymore offensive than “oh holy night” playing on repeat by the stables, or just generally existing in public spaces during Christmas time? Most department stores are just playing the radio which usually plays a pretty healthy mix of Santa and Jesus stuff. You’d still be making a conscious choice whether to actually sit down and *watch* the show. And sure you could make an argument that you’re sort of ostracizing people from eating at one spot in the park, but that doesn’t seem to be your issue, since you commented on it bleeding out into the common area.
I mean just by the title of the event, Christmas Town, one can reasonably assume there will be at least one reference to Jesus in a show. I'd say if someone has enough free time on their hands to get offended by a mentioning of Jesus at a Christmas event, go on and go to Winterfest instead.
As for comparing it to Fiends it is quite different. Fiends is innappropriate for young ones due to its adult content and profuse amounts of cringe. Christmas music these kids grow up listening to is not innappropriate.
Someone who gets offended by Jesus shouldn't be at a Christmas event to begin with.
As for comparing it to Fiends it is quite different. Fiends is innappropriate for young ones due to its adult content and profuse amounts of cringe. Christmas music these kids grow up listening to is not innappropriate.
Someone who gets offended by Jesus shouldn't be at a Christmas event to begin with.
I didn't see the term "offended" anywhere in the post by Applesauce. They just suggested that the explicitly religious aspect of the holiday be avoidable. There are plenty of secular ways to enjoy the holiday and despite not being a fan, Christmastown does a decent job in playing to as many ways as possible.
Not sure the point is to caught up on semantics. Applesauce said “not everyone wants to be exposed to it in any capacity”. That kind of implied offense being taken, but again, that’s not the point. Going back again, how would the music bleeding out into the one walkway in Italy be any different exposure than oh holy night by the stables, or just generally any public area during Christmas?
This is kind of a moot point anyway, because I don’t see the park moving it over there anyway without having to completely rewrite the show. I’m just not entirely understanding the objection, as explained.
This is kind of a moot point anyway, because I don’t see the park moving it over there anyway without having to completely rewrite the show. I’m just not entirely understanding the objection, as explained.
I agree, my point was not to focus on the exact wording of the post, rather the intent.
Apologies if it came across as me putting words into Applesauce's mouth, I meant no bad words towards Applesauce personally.
"Offended" is like dislike to an extreme level. You can dislike something and not be offended by it. Using that term implies an extreme negative reaction instead of a preference against. I'm not offended by any holiday music but I sure has hell avoid it when possible. I personally think this is an important distinction to also avoid faux-outrage given the religious nature. Is that fair?
I can't speak for Applesauce, but background music is just that, background noise that can be focused out or rushed through, like religious decor. A show atmosphere is a lot more present in addition to the crowds around the shows make it more difficult to bypass. Yes, the theater does have seating, but if people stop outside of the theater they block the pathways of the exits. CT has bad enough crowds as it is.
While I don't think it's intentional, a terribly generic feel-good show is probably the best thing for the venue. Generic enough so not everyone stops and those that are interested can find seating inside.
I can't speak for Applesauce, but background music is just that, background noise that can be focused out or rushed through, like religious decor. A show atmosphere is a lot more present in addition to the crowds around the shows make it more difficult to bypass. Yes, the theater does have seating, but if people stop outside of the theater they block the pathways of the exits. CT has bad enough crowds as it is.
While I don't think it's intentional, a terribly generic feel-good show is probably the best thing for the venue. Generic enough so not everyone stops and those that are interested can find seating inside.
Just to address what seems to be discontent towards my use of the word "offend":
I was not directly replying to Applesauce's post, hence why I did not use the "Reply" function on this forum; I did not want my post to seem as a reply, rather its own statement on a potential issue that may or may not have been brought up based on one's interpretation. My post should not be seen as addressing Applesauce's post, as I have no issue with their post.
But that's just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
I was not directly replying to Applesauce's post, hence why I did not use the "Reply" function on this forum; I did not want my post to seem as a reply, rather its own statement on a potential issue that may or may not have been brought up based on one's interpretation. My post should not be seen as addressing Applesauce's post, as I have no issue with their post.
I agree entirely, I probably could have included this whole paragraph. I was however just referring to those who are offended by the music, since I do believe it is ridiculous to get offended, though I do not believe it is ridiculous for someone to just have discontent towards the religious atmosphere. I for one am not religious in the slightest, so I too get slightly uncomfortable by heavily religious events, so I just avoid them as necessary. I do not think a Christmas event should have to accommodate this personal dislike of mine however, just like how a Halloween event shouldn't have to accommodate a potential dislike for scares by having ways to get around the park without being scared.
But that's just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
Fair enough. Not sure I entirely agree with there being as much of a distinction as you laid out, but the differences are pretty trivial and well worth an “agree to disagree” especially considering the fact that this is pure fan discussion anyway, and won’t actuslly be implemented by the park.
So going back to where this all began, and agreeing to keep Gloria over in Ireland, I still wish they would put something a little better in this spot. A Capella isn’t a bad idea if it’s executed well. But IMO it’s not being executed well here, so if we don’t want to shift it to another venue (since the weather point is very valid) I’d still rather there be something else here. I know the shows there are generally not great, but I think there’s still a distinction between a show being “less good” and a show coming across as rather amateur. And I tend to feel like this show falls more in line with the latter
So going back to where this all began, and agreeing to keep Gloria over in Ireland, I still wish they would put something a little better in this spot. A Capella isn’t a bad idea if it’s executed well. But IMO it’s not being executed well here, so if we don’t want to shift it to another venue (since the weather point is very valid) I’d still rather there be something else here. I know the shows there are generally not great, but I think there’s still a distinction between a show being “less good” and a show coming across as rather amateur. And I tend to feel like this show falls more in line with the latter
I think the frustrating thing for me, which I will have to reconcile, is that Miracles was a really good show! Like I say, it drove me to tears (granted, occasionally commercials or just walking by puppies does that too).
I'm saddened that it was an unsafe place to perform ballet, it was really beautiful. Hopefully there's a solution to a show that doesn't require an indoor theater's level of acousitcs/production, but can still be really showy. I think both Mix It Up and Scarelight Orchestra do a good job of that.
I'm saddened that it was an unsafe place to perform ballet, it was really beautiful. Hopefully there's a solution to a show that doesn't require an indoor theater's level of acousitcs/production, but can still be really showy. I think both Mix It Up and Scarelight Orchestra do a good job of that.
Woowwww I guess I should come out an address somethings lmao.
HOWEVER, that being said, and I'll address the second part of your post in a minute. I've got other things to say to make this as cohesive as possible.
My point in comparing Fiends and Gloria is still valid, Fiends is inappropriate for its original venue of having it in the Festhaus because of the content it provides. Something that's in the Festhaus (or in this case San Marco) should be something more family oriented and middle of the road inoffensive. It's why Deck the Halls and Night Beats work in that location. It's family friendly and middle of the road. (The actual production value of Night Beats is something else to be discussed at another time and place. I'm just talking show type here.) Fiends works in Abbey Stone because it's something more explicit, in this case its a more adult show. Gloria works in the Abbey Stone because its something more explicit, in its case a religious related experience, for those who would like to celebrate the more religious side of the holiday.
I hate to break it to you but there's A LOT OF PEOPLE out there who don't celebrate the religious side of the holiday at all. Myself included. There are many nonreligious people who go to Christmas Town because 1, Winterfest is new this year and if you're from NC or the southern part of Virigina, going to KD is entirely too much of a drive without planning. 2, because it's a time to go with friends and just look at lights, a friend could be really religious and celebrate the holiday for its religious purposes, but they want to share something with their friends. 3, Some holiday parties for busniesses throw in a pair of Christmas Town tickets, might as well use them. And so on and so forth. There are many reasons why a person who doesn't celebrate Jesus would be at Christmas Town.
Having a show with that focus of content out in the open is kinda imposing the idea of the religious part of the holiday, on to those who do not celebrate that part of the holiday. It isn't as easily ignored as a couple of statues, or in the case of Gloria, walking right past the theater without having to listen. and As PK said, there's many times where that area just kinda fills up with people not actively sitting to watch, but standing. Not only does it make it harder for those who want to actually eat a meal there, but it also just makes it generally harder to move around in that area.
This all being said,
All of y'all completely ignored my very good idea as to how to fix the issue of having a middle of the road Christmas show in San Marco without putting any actors, dancers or singers into danger oftheir well being. Because y'all would rather try and debate out Gloria (or a Gloria-like show) which is perfectly fine where it is for vastly more reasons than I originally provided.
EDIT: whoops forgot to reply to the second half of your post lmao.
But even then, I'm far, FAR MORE FORGIVING of listening to Christmas music at a Christmas event because I know what I signed up for. I know what I agreed to when walking into the park or even entering the parking lot. But, ultimately It feels like you're forcing the religious experience upon somebody who may not want it by having it in San Marco versus Abbey Stone.
Personally I avoid Scotland like the plague during Christmas Town, for nothing more than the blue lights over there mess with my eyes so bad it gives me a headache. I legit can't walk through Scotland, so I've never really gone by the stables and paid attention to the music choices. So that is one thing I can't comment on bc I've never heard it.
HOWEVER, that being said, and I'll address the second part of your post in a minute. I've got other things to say to make this as cohesive as possible.
I never said there was an issue with the show type, I expect there to be something related to the religious side of the holiday there. I just said the LOCATION is bad for the idea to move Gloria or a Gloria-like show to San Marco. Gloria is fine where its at.
My point in comparing Fiends and Gloria is still valid, Fiends is inappropriate for its original venue of having it in the Festhaus because of the content it provides. Something that's in the Festhaus (or in this case San Marco) should be something more family oriented and middle of the road inoffensive. It's why Deck the Halls and Night Beats work in that location. It's family friendly and middle of the road. (The actual production value of Night Beats is something else to be discussed at another time and place. I'm just talking show type here.) Fiends works in Abbey Stone because it's something more explicit, in this case its a more adult show. Gloria works in the Abbey Stone because its something more explicit, in its case a religious related experience, for those who would like to celebrate the more religious side of the holiday.
I hate to break it to you but there's A LOT OF PEOPLE out there who don't celebrate the religious side of the holiday at all. Myself included. There are many nonreligious people who go to Christmas Town because 1, Winterfest is new this year and if you're from NC or the southern part of Virigina, going to KD is entirely too much of a drive without planning. 2, because it's a time to go with friends and just look at lights, a friend could be really religious and celebrate the holiday for its religious purposes, but they want to share something with their friends. 3, Some holiday parties for busniesses throw in a pair of Christmas Town tickets, might as well use them. And so on and so forth. There are many reasons why a person who doesn't celebrate Jesus would be at Christmas Town.
Getting back to this side of the issue. Busch Gardens is a theme park, they are trying to make money. Having the event being as in the middle of the road as possible to appeal to a wider audience is their goal. And of course, this is still part of the Bible Belt, so we have to have Jesus thrown in or others will say they're ruining Christmas, so they got Gloria and the visuals of San Marco. Which again is 100% fine. (Except Frosted Pop Tart Jesus, please change that statue I'm begging @ Busch Gardens.)
Having a show with that focus of content out in the open is kinda imposing the idea of the religious part of the holiday, on to those who do not celebrate that part of the holiday. It isn't as easily ignored as a couple of statues, or in the case of Gloria, walking right past the theater without having to listen. and As PK said, there's many times where that area just kinda fills up with people not actively sitting to watch, but standing. Not only does it make it harder for those who want to actually eat a meal there, but it also just makes it generally harder to move around in that area.
This all being said,
All of y'all completely ignored my very good idea as to how to fix the issue of having a middle of the road Christmas show in San Marco without putting any actors, dancers or singers into danger oftheir well being. Because y'all would rather try and debate out Gloria (or a Gloria-like show) which is perfectly fine where it is for vastly more reasons than I originally provided.
EDIT: whoops forgot to reply to the second half of your post lmao.
I work retail, I've always worked retail, and the amount I don't want to listen to the same 10 Christmas songs over and over again sung by different people is, so high it can see Jesus, alright. But even then you're forcing those who don't celebrate the holiday to listen to that music. Because people still need to go grocery shopping.
But even then, I'm far, FAR MORE FORGIVING of listening to Christmas music at a Christmas event because I know what I signed up for. I know what I agreed to when walking into the park or even entering the parking lot. But, ultimately It feels like you're forcing the religious experience upon somebody who may not want it by having it in San Marco versus Abbey Stone.
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This makes me feel as though you didn't read my follow ups. If not, I suggest you do, as it clarifies where I am coming from with my first post, since the goal of my first post was not to blatantly disagree with you on any point except for the Fiends comparison.
As I said in my follow-ups, I too do not celebrate the religious side of the holiday, or any holiday for that matter. So do not take my statement to be a statement from the perspective of a Christian who is angered by someone not worshipping Jesus.
I'm just someone who thinks people are too sensitive.
Oh no I did read them, I read everything after I posted last night. You said that they shouldn't do something specifically for you, IE removing a religious experience so you a non-religious person can enjoy something more. And that religious events in general make you uncomfortable.
However, that non-religious group is FAR LARGER than just you or me. A good percentage of people out there now a days don't celebrate the religious part of the holiday. And just want pretty lights, Santa and maybe a ride or two, or they go for their kids. So again having that bleed over into a main pathway, is imposing the religious side of the holiday. We all know its partly a religious holiday. We do. Everyone who doesn't is likely a child who isn't quite old enough to understand yet.
That's what I was getting at. They wouldn't be doing something specifically for you, as if you were in a small minority. They would be doing it to appeal to the most amount of people possible.
Also, what's wrong with being sensitive? There's nothing wrong with taking other things or people into consideration.
However, that non-religious group is FAR LARGER than just you or me. A good percentage of people out there now a days don't celebrate the religious part of the holiday. And just want pretty lights, Santa and maybe a ride or two, or they go for their kids. So again having that bleed over into a main pathway, is imposing the religious side of the holiday. We all know its partly a religious holiday. We do. Everyone who doesn't is likely a child who isn't quite old enough to understand yet.
That's what I was getting at. They wouldn't be doing something specifically for you, as if you were in a small minority. They would be doing it to appeal to the most amount of people possible.
Also, what's wrong with being sensitive? There's nothing wrong with taking other things or people into consideration.
There's nothing wrong with being sensitive. I said I think people are too sensitive. In that a lot of people let things upset them that really shouldn't. Like if I had to mark from 1-10 how much a Chriatmas show about Jesus bothered me, it'd be far less than how bothered I'd be if a party I was planning on going to was rained out. Or if a movie I was looking forward to seeing was postponed a month.
I just see it as a small issue, and I have spent far too much of my time talking about it instead of studying for finals, so if we want to have a more in depth discussion about it, feel free to PM me so I can address specific things when I can instead of attempting to get caught up to a whole thread when I return.
Again, I mean no rudeness nor personal attack of any sort throughout these posts, so I apologise if I'm annoying or bothering anyone. I don't want anyone replying out of emotional backlash or being irritated since I know it's kinda a touchy issue. I don't mean to come across as an asshat if that's what is happening here. Just to clarify ?
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Anyway.
I think this is a really interesting idea.
Honestly, I like the concept behind the Rudolph Movie Experience or whatever it is they're calling the film with lighting and snow effects in Festa's Three Point Challenge area. That said, the execution leaves a lot to be desired.
I think there is a real opportunity for BGW to "plus" that experience up a bit and put it into Il Teatro di San Marco. Play the full version of the film (not whatever odd 4D remake they are using now). Have a lighting display sync up with the film with lights around the stage and around the theater itself (basically an expanded version of what is currently done in Festa). The snow effect should return and it can snow on the non-dining seating area in front of the stage.
It seems like a cheap, easy, plenty-good-enough solution to me. Oh. And it doesn't risk the health of any performers. And it can run no matter the weather. It seems like a win-win to me.
Heavy investment into entertainment in Il Teatro (in its current shape) will always be ill-advised in my opinion. Unless the park wants to spend a lot of capital enclosing the entire theater, it will always have to be a low-tier performance venue due to its exposure to the elements, poor acoustics, poor lighting and audio setup, impossible crowd control, and countless other factors. Until big changes occur to address those issues, I'd love to see "plussed" films return to this venue for HOS and CMT.
I think this is a really interesting idea.
Honestly, I like the concept behind the Rudolph Movie Experience or whatever it is they're calling the film with lighting and snow effects in Festa's Three Point Challenge area. That said, the execution leaves a lot to be desired.
I think there is a real opportunity for BGW to "plus" that experience up a bit and put it into Il Teatro di San Marco. Play the full version of the film (not whatever odd 4D remake they are using now). Have a lighting display sync up with the film with lights around the stage and around the theater itself (basically an expanded version of what is currently done in Festa). The snow effect should return and it can snow on the non-dining seating area in front of the stage.
It seems like a cheap, easy, plenty-good-enough solution to me. Oh. And it doesn't risk the health of any performers. And it can run no matter the weather. It seems like a win-win to me.
Heavy investment into entertainment in Il Teatro (in its current shape) will always be ill-advised in my opinion. Unless the park wants to spend a lot of capital enclosing the entire theater, it will always have to be a low-tier performance venue due to its exposure to the elements, poor acoustics, poor lighting and audio setup, impossible crowd control, and countless other factors. Until big changes occur to address those issues, I'd love to see "plussed" films return to this venue for HOS and CMT.
As much as I hate to bring the topic back up, after @Zachary attempted a redirect...
I want to point out that the critical data point people seem to have overlooked is that Il Teatro is a dining venue (like DFH). Just as it was inappropriate to put Fiends in DFH, where people stop for dinner, so to it would be inappropriate (in my opinion) to put an overtly religious show like Gloria in the San Marco heated dining area.
All that said, I also really like the Rudolph idea, and am a bit surprised the park hasn't already done it.
I want to point out that the critical data point people seem to have overlooked is that Il Teatro is a dining venue (like DFH). Just as it was inappropriate to put Fiends in DFH, where people stop for dinner, so to it would be inappropriate (in my opinion) to put an overtly religious show like Gloria in the San Marco heated dining area.
All that said, I also really like the Rudolph idea, and am a bit surprised the park hasn't already done it.
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Thanks for the reply applesauce.
As I said when I asked those questions, I was trying to be anything but confrontational about it. I even apologized that it might come across that way before asking the question. I’m not a religious person either, to be frank, I was just trying to understand your point of view better about why it mattered that it bled out.
Sounds like it upset you which, as I have said from the very start of that post, was never my intention. So once again, my apologies if it comes across confrontational- never had any interest in getting to any kind of argument about it.
So anyway. Yes. I would love the idea of a Rudolph or a grinch type show over there.
As I said when I asked those questions, I was trying to be anything but confrontational about it. I even apologized that it might come across that way before asking the question. I’m not a religious person either, to be frank, I was just trying to understand your point of view better about why it mattered that it bled out.
Sounds like it upset you which, as I have said from the very start of that post, was never my intention. So once again, my apologies if it comes across confrontational- never had any interest in getting to any kind of argument about it.
So anyway. Yes. I would love the idea of a Rudolph or a grinch type show over there.