Curse of DarKastle

[BGWnut]

they do if the cost of ownership far exceeds the earned value. If it needed a whole bunch of expensive work or if something critical for safety goes sideways, it may prove to be a fast shut down. Look at Volcano. Unless I am mistaken and missed some confirmed RUMINT, then we simply do not have the data to make bold claims like, "They have a 5 year plan and part of it is SBNO."

I completely agree with you. This is essentially what was done with Big Bad Wolf. It was shut down due to the costs to operate and needs for some major repairs without a plan to immediately replace the ride. It took BGW 3 years to replace. It is not without a precedence for a ride to close without a plan in place to replace it. That does not mean that they did not start thinking about it added it to the 5 year plan. Just it wasn't necessarily in the plans.

 

[Ryan]

Would another park build the entire castle?

Just put all of it in a dark warehouse if they have to XD

 

[Mushroom]

I still think KD should buy the ride video and play it in the Action Theater.

 

[Thomas]

It would be the best attraction at KD.

 

[GrandpaD]

Well there you go. Meet the all new CoDK, just like the old CoDK...
I
fully expect a reborn 4D ride using the same ride system. It will be to CoDK as BfÉire was to Questor->EitA.

And as it turns out, Falcon Creative did the theming for both CoDK and BfÉire.

I can't wait.

I guess I'm confused by "same ride system" comments I see. In reading today, each of their vehicles is individually programmed. So any updates in programming (since CODK) could be incorporated. The remainder of the ride (new computers, projectors, screens, amplifiers, etc.) would be "the latest" as it's not at BGW anyway.

The only thing I see as perhaps hindering might be the actual mechanics of the vehicles (servos, hydraulics, drive motors, etc.). Maybe they'll be limited in what they can do as compared to a new vehicle. I'm guessing the fiberglass body (seats) could be changed out on the existing chassis.

If so, they could adapt to a Justice League type interactive (not story) setup with two tiers of 3 riders all facing the same direction.



Maybe that's what they were thinking when they closed CODK...but someone at Falcon convinced them Eire would be better.

 

[whanna]

(Sorry for the posts...wife is watching the Oscars. I'm not ?)

It dawned on me that today's interactives are accomplished by video projection. I thought it interesting that Wonder Mountain in Canada's Wonderland changes the ride from Guardian to Zombies for Halloween. The ride developer promotes "at the press of a button" to change the ride. Obviously queue lines and signage would have to be changed.

So, conceivably (with $$$) this could be 2 (or maybe 3) "different" rides. Your normal "family"; a scary Howl O Scream and (maybe, if you're good boys and girls) a Christmas Town edition. How cool would that be?

(And the Oscar goes to....blah blah)

Oscars - same (well, last night).
I proposed the same for BfE, able to change it out for different seasons, including a fly-along with Santa for CT. Didn’t seem to be a popular opinion, but I really don’t feel BfE would be a difficult reprogram, it is only one screen/motion map. CoDK was what, seven or eight screens? Still doable if you want to do it, especially since each scene is only 10-30 seconds.

For Halloween in CoDK v2 you are shooting zombies to escape the castle and get to the candy corn before it is all gone. Or picking out the best pumpkins from a series of fields, so that you can carve jack o lanterns with all of your friends. Maybe the ride changes at six, when the scares come out...
For Christmas: Santa overslept, and needs your help to deliver presents. Place a marker on the chimney of each good kid in the city, and Santa will deliver the presents to them. Don’t mark a bad kid’s chimney or you’ll lose points because of wasting presents. Of course the good kid’s chimneys would be green vs red, so they’re already marked, maybe you are shooting the presents into the right chimney and get points for successful deliveries.

The ride that we visited the most on both trips to Universal Orlando was easily Men in Black. From the edit straight back to the entrance, easily five times in a row, two or three times a day. Reridability is easy when you’re trying to beat your score. And those cars, like RXCC, are a back row looking over a front row.

I would need to review on overhead maps but Laff Track’s building can’t be much bigger than CoDK. A portion of it is queue space too, like Darkastle. Height would be a concern I guess.

 

[WDWRLD]

Oscars - same (well, last night).
I proposed the same for BfE, able to change it out for different seasons, including a fly-along with Santa for CT. Didn’t seem to be a popular opinion, but I really don’t feel BfE would be a difficult reprogram, it is only one screen/motion map. CoDK was what, seven or eight screens? Still doable if you want to do it, especially since each scene is only 10-30 seconds.

For Halloween in CoDK v2 you are shooting zombies to escape the castle and get to the candy corn before it is all gone. Or picking out the best pumpkins from a series of fields, so that you can carve jack o lanterns with all of your friends. Maybe the ride changes at six, when the scares come out...
For Christmas: Santa overslept, and needs your help to deliver presents. Place a marker on the chimney of each good kid in the city, and Santa will deliver the presents to them. Don’t mark a bad kid’s chimney or you’ll lose points because of wasting presents. Of course the good kid’s chimneys would be green vs red, so they’re already marked, maybe you are shooting the presents into the right chimney and get points for successful deliveries.

The ride that we visited the most on both trips to Universal Orlando was easily Men in Black. From the edit straight back to the entrance, easily five times in a row, two or three times a day. Reridability is easy when you’re trying to beat your score. And those cars, like RXCC, are a back row looking over a front row.

I would need to review on overhead maps but Laff Track’s building can’t be much bigger than CoDK. A portion of it is queue space too, like Darkastle. Height would be a concern I guess.

I think Laff Trak is taller, but smaller footprint wvwn with queue. I really wouldnt want that ride though, while fun once a year or so that would be it.

 

[Zachary]

I really enjoy Laff Trak. I rode it three or four times on my last trip alone.

Do I think BGW should be able to do better than Laff Trak? Yes. That said, I won't lie and say I wouldn't enjoy a coaster on par with Laff Trak either. I may be disappointed (Vikings invading Canada-style), but I'd still enjoy the addition (a la InvadR).

 

[Icer]

If Laff Trak is the replacement for something as huge as DK was to this park, I'd be insulted.

It's different if that is a ground up addition, like InvadR. It's tolerable, but when something amazing is replaced by something that is just a filler, it's a slap in the face. If DK is not replaced by a dark ride, I'd rather it never be replaced by a ride, but perhaps some other use of the space.

 

[warfelg]

Laff Trak is a really really fun coaster....but it was a massive disappointment to HP pass holders. But on the flip side, HP had been looking to install a family thrill coaster like that for about 15 years before it finally went in. Where it was the biggest disappointment was the fact that they have a wild mouse and it's right across the walkway from Laff Trak.

 

[GrandpaD]

I gotta figure it's going to be a new dark ride. But, if we go by Riley's ”one new show/attraction a year” philosophy, then you're looking at maybe 2021 (if Festa does happen next year).

 

[WDWRLD]

I was gong to compare Laff Trak to the Wild Mouse at HP but didnt. But think of this...at one point Wild Izzy stood where DK is todaay. Not saying that is what I think will be added there just saying its funny.

 

[warfelg]

They aren't really comparable TBH. Gimmie LT 10/10 over WM. More so the group I spend time in the park with, we were all confused on the fact that they put them so close together. Most felt as though you got a majority of your family friendly coasters all in one place.

Anyways DK. I think it's hard to repurpose the interior to hold a coaster, unless it's really not that forceful. The pad was not poured with the forces of a coaster in mind. It was poured to handle weight though.

 

[thopping]

I guess I'm confused by "same ride system" comments I see. In reading today, each of their vehicles is individually programmed. ...
The only thing I see as perhaps hindering might be the actual mechanics of the vehicles (servos, hydraulics, drive motors, etc.). Maybe they'll be limited in what they can do as compared to a new vehicle. I'm guessing the fiberglass body (seats) could be changed out on the existing chassis.

Well, yeah, that's exactly what I meant by different ride system--the vehicles, motors, hydraulics, etc. (conveyance)--and they are very much linked to their parentage, if you will. The Oceaneering system is a motion simulator developed by a company that does marine/space engineering, ROVs, dive support, etc. and simulators for the same. This one happens to move around a course and have entertainment programming. Sure, it can be reprogrammed, and I'm 99.9% sure that's what SEAS will do with a new story, but it's still a motion simulator constrained by what it can do...

Vastly different, at least IMHO, are all of the other ride comparisons, which are typically smaller cars that ride a track and whose parentage tend to be companies that specialize in themepark attractions. Laff Trakk is actually an indoor coaster and arguably as different from TSM/Maus/Reeses as CoDK is, but point is that none of these can easily replace CoDK with a program update--the underlying ride system and associated investment will limit what's possible.

 

[GrandpaD]

Ok @thopping, we're on the same page. I just watched the POV of Justice League again and, when it really comes to it, the vehicles (IMHO) are a minor part of the whole experience. They go slow, fast, spin, turn and lean now and then. What (to me) makes the ride complete are the immersive sets, crystal clear video and sound as well as lighting. Add to that the interactive "laser guns" and you've got a great experience.

I agree with you that's what SEAS envisioned by keeping the vehicles. Let's hope they get more creative than BfE.

 

[thopping]

Now where you have a point is that different companies with different ride systems may all "believe" they can address the park's design intent--and arguably, one "should" be able to retrofit some laser guns on the CoDK cars, add the surrounding set/themeing, and have something "similar"....

I just think it will always feel more like a moving motion simulator than something like TSM/Maus/Reeses, and arguably, will be a clumsy, far less nimble, implementation. Plus, the time for bidders to argue they can address the park's intent differently/more cost-effectively has passed (I think) as SEAS will probably want to reuse the ride system investment, and thus be limited by it.

Another analogy of clumsy implementations may be using the Reflectone motion simulator in EitA and thinking it was anything like Soarin' just because of a similar intended experience....

 

[GrandpaD]

I just get drawn back to Justice League. Using the Oceaneering vehicles, it doesn't look like a moving motion simulator. Of course, that ride was done by Sally Corp. So, in that case, another company has used their vehicles. So....would BGW leave Falcon's?

 

[thopping]

I have a feeling they may ask Falcon to implement a new ride concept using the Oceaneering ride system/simulators... Or they could open it up to others with the ride system being owner furnished equipment...

Though I know a thing or two about procurement processes, private companies working with themeparks is out of my area of expertise. I really don't know how they'll proceed....

I just think the economics and and SEAS MO of reusing investments, plus the prior relationships (we debate a lot about big, visible ones, e.g. whether Intamin would be ever considered for a coaster--apparently, yes--but there are others like Falcon) mean that I'm thinking a Falcon retheme with Oceaneering motion simulators is in the works, so meet the new CoDK, just like the old CoDK...and nothing like TSM/Maus/Reeses.

 

[GrandpaD]

Though I know a thing or two about procurement processes, private companies working with themeparks is out of my area of expertise. I really don't know how they'll proceed....

I just think the economics and and SEAS MO of reusing investments, plus the prior relationships (we debate a lot about big, visible ones, e.g. whether Intamin would be ever considered for a coaster--apparently, yes--but there are others like Falcon) mean that I'm thinking a Falcon retheme with Oceaneering motion simulators is in the works, so meet the new CoDK, just like the old CoDK...and nothing like TSM/Maus/Reeses.

If it's anything like my former career, there's probably 2 ways -

1. (Heaven forbid) The client crafts a story outline. "Blah blah, in a Castle...blah blah" and what they envision (interactive? motion? RPH?) They send it out to Falcon, Sally, whomever - "Could you make this work within these budget constraints? Could we save money using our old vehicles?"
2. (Hopefully) "We have a building X number of square feet located in Germany. We have a budget of $X. What could we do? Could we save money using our old vehicles?"

Like you said regarding Intamin...maybe SEAS wants to step up their game, broaden their horizons, so to speak. And (A big and...and a long reach) Sally Corp is about to unveil a Sesame Street dark ride in Europe. Could be a good partnership down the line.

But, I think we could debate this for years...I don't see it happening any time soon.

 

[BGWPinGuy]

Does anyone think Busch execs read these discussions to make discisons on stuff because we do all the tough thinking for them lmao