Not sure how you came to that conclusion from what I said but you really need to get some help!
COVID-19’s Impacts on BGW
- Thread starter WDWRLD
- Start date
Not sure how you came to that conclusion from what I said but you really need to get some help!
I’m all for direct discussion. What can I elaborate on to help you understand how I came to my conclusion?
I think his point was actually pretty fairly made. All though it definitely isn't just those in church this morning that will be doing it. To that point it was a different group who over spring break completely ignored the mask mandate and were rather forceful with park staff about their "religious freedom" to the point that park staff stopped trying to enforce it at the time.
I’m confused at how baseless, blanket assurances of any manner can be considered fairly made? Let’s break this down:
What is the basis for this assertion? Unless he somehow has access to the vaccination status of said churchgoers, or their propensity to wear masks in public, what is this assurance based on, and what makes it fair?
Based on what knowledge? Again, how is this a fair argument if there is no knowledge to back it up?
If he has (or you have) knowledge to back this up, I’m always open to learning. My issue is specifically with the blanket assertions/assurances. As I stated previously, there have always been people, both religious and non-religious, who have used religious reasons as excuses for things. This was a thing way before Covid. But to use that as a reason to make baseless assertions about an entire single religion and their actions both in church and out is neither fair nor supportable.
I think, and I could be wrong here, that when one of those people who use their misguided belief in how religious exemptions actually work they generally claim they're a Christian.
Of course, same could happen for Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Mormons, sun worshippers, followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Pagans, Wiccans, etc - but as everything here is anecdotal and, from what I can tell based on claims made, none of the other religious groups were the ones causing the major problems at the park.
Again, could be totally wrong here, just what I got out of this discussion.
In any case, I'd think the park would have worded their policies to allow for true religious exemptions but to generally prevent a mass amount of abusing them (and causing their front-line staff they're already hard-up to hire to be subjected to any verbal and/or physical abuse).
Of course, same could happen for Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Mormons, sun worshippers, followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Pagans, Wiccans, etc - but as everything here is anecdotal and, from what I can tell based on claims made, none of the other religious groups were the ones causing the major problems at the park.
Again, could be totally wrong here, just what I got out of this discussion.
In any case, I'd think the park would have worded their policies to allow for true religious exemptions but to generally prevent a mass amount of abusing them (and causing their front-line staff they're already hard-up to hire to be subjected to any verbal and/or physical abuse).
I am struggling to see why religion was brought into this conversation to begin with. All that could result from such a reach would be derailment of the thread. Absolutely unnecessary.
To recap...
@WDWRLD wanted to know why BGWFans emphasized that unvaccinated persons must wear a mask at BGW.
I replied, stating that well-meaning fans of the park and people with a religious opposition to lying should both care about not falsely representing their vaccine status since it's the wrong thing to do. There are MANY reasons someone would be opposed to doing the wrong thing by lying, but those are two groups I cited as examples to justify informing the public via BGWFans.
I never one said that a majority of religious people didn't want the vaccine. I never said that religious people made up the majority of people who don't want the vaccine. I never once said that many other people aren't also opposed to lying for a million other reasons. I never suggested that religion was causing vaccine hesitancy. I never claimed any exclusive relationship between religion and vaccine resistance. I'd encourage everyone to read my actual words and actually tell me what I have wrong here.
There are many societal groups who are displaying a disproportionately large degree of vaccine hesitancy. That is a well documented fact. There doesn't need to be a causal relationship between the group and the hesitancy for the group to be relevant to the discussion. In this case, the societal groups of "religions opposed to dishonesty" are relevant because their religion forbades them from lying about their vaccine status.
Again, I spesifically cited Christians because I have personally interacted with anti-vax Christians on social media via BGWFans who intend to lie about having the vaccine so I can speak to the existence of those people first-hand. Additionally, I grew up Christian, attended church every Sunday, went to a Christian school, debated theology for much of my young life, etc. Hence, I feel I can reasonably speak with a degree of authority on Christianity that I can't speak with in relation to other religions (having only studied them in an academic setting and never actually having held their faiths myself).
@WDWRLD wanted to know why BGWFans emphasized that unvaccinated persons must wear a mask at BGW.
I replied, stating that well-meaning fans of the park and people with a religious opposition to lying should both care about not falsely representing their vaccine status since it's the wrong thing to do. There are MANY reasons someone would be opposed to doing the wrong thing by lying, but those are two groups I cited as examples to justify informing the public via BGWFans.
I never one said that a majority of religious people didn't want the vaccine. I never said that religious people made up the majority of people who don't want the vaccine. I never once said that many other people aren't also opposed to lying for a million other reasons. I never suggested that religion was causing vaccine hesitancy. I never claimed any exclusive relationship between religion and vaccine resistance. I'd encourage everyone to read my actual words and actually tell me what I have wrong here.
There are many societal groups who are displaying a disproportionately large degree of vaccine hesitancy. That is a well documented fact. There doesn't need to be a causal relationship between the group and the hesitancy for the group to be relevant to the discussion. In this case, the societal groups of "religions opposed to dishonesty" are relevant because their religion forbades them from lying about their vaccine status.
Again, I spesifically cited Christians because I have personally interacted with anti-vax Christians on social media via BGWFans who intend to lie about having the vaccine so I can speak to the existence of those people first-hand. Additionally, I grew up Christian, attended church every Sunday, went to a Christian school, debated theology for much of my young life, etc. Hence, I feel I can reasonably speak with a degree of authority on Christianity that I can't speak with in relation to other religions (having only studied them in an academic setting and never actually having held their faiths myself).
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Right? Incredibly inappropriate for what this forum is for. This derailed conversation had a lot of ignorance in it, and it is clear people are bringing in their personal baggage to something they are misinformed about. I'm not sure what is worse. the opinions or the fact the people giving them think they are saying something insightful.
I get what you're saying @Zachary and there isn't anything inherently offensive with what you said (at least to me), I just think it is generally in poor taste to bring religion into the discussion unless it is very directly related. A historically contentious issue has no place being brought into a modern contentious issue, especially when painting one specific religion to be a culprit of being the "bad guy" in today's issue of COVID. (Not saying you are directly saying Christians are being bad, but it comes off as "Christians = antimaskers") Regardless of if you are the most qualified person on Earth to talk about Christianity, it just seems inappropriate, and is bound to have more negatives than what could ever be added onto the conversation.
I think the “large number of vaccine resistant christians” is what you have wrong here.
Observations from the park today...
1) Parking booth employee hands me a slip and states "masks are no longer required"
2) 95% of folks in park without masks
3) Park way more crowded today than the past three Sundays, and staffing issues are clearly rearing their ugly head
1) Parking booth employee hands me a slip and states "masks are no longer required"
2) 95% of folks in park without masks
3) Park way more crowded today than the past three Sundays, and staffing issues are clearly rearing their ugly head
I thought the CDC was having a bad week, but then I saw Zachary's post.
It's not wrong. I literally linked the data.
There are, objectively, a "large number" of COVID-19 vaccine reluctant Christians. I never said a majority of Christians were vaccine hesitant or that the majority of the vaccine hesitant are Christians—just that there are many vaccine hesitant Christians. I used the word "many" very deliberately and my statement is reflected in the data.
There are a large number of vaccine hesitant members of other groups too. I never claimed otherwise. That said, many of the other groups the vaccine hesitant also belong to don't also profess a strong, group-associated adversity to lying, in turn, making those groups far less rhetorically relevant to my case.
You don't have to like my take. I made it knowing there were going to be people who wouldn't like it. That said, I believe it was worth making regardless due to the fact that it's a blatant hypocrisy that I have seen NUMEROUS members of the larger (read: on social media) BGW community commit and one I believe that we, as reasoned folk with a natural distaste for hypocrisy, shouldn't allow to slide by unchecked.
To bring this back to parks, the industry has left this—appealing to people's basic morality—as society's only option to encourage mitigation compliance or vaccination. With different rules for the vaccinated and unvaccinated but no enforcement mechanism by which to divide those groups, social pressures are our only option.
There are people who read BGWFans' Facebook and Twitter posts who both claim not to be vaccinated and who also repeatedly suggest that they intend to ignore the park rules for the unvaccinated while at BGW. We shouldn't mince words—that is wrong. It is a black and white issue. These people commit to abide by the park's safety rules by attending BGW and then intentionally, willfully, knowingly violate those rules—falsely representing (read: lying) about their vaccination status to the park and other guests. These people are bad BGW fans, bad park enthusiasts, bad members of society, and, if they belong to a religion that identifies lying as a sin, they're bad members of that religion too.
That's all my cards on the table—I've said my peace. I'm sure there is someone who will cherry pick quotes from my case to paint me as some sort of religion-hating extremist who is arguing in bad faith against Christianity or something, but the reality is far from that. I'm arguing against people who don't want to get vaccinated yet who also intend to intentionally violate park policy because they can't handle wearing a mask or whatever. One strategy for doing that is to confront people with the requirement of that position (read: to lie) and let them ponder whether or not their moral framework—whatever it is—is compatible with that behavior. As someone who spent a lot of time in Christianity, I can say that, from my experience, the prohibition against lying is really straightforward. Intentionally misrepresenting one's vaccine status to BGW or to other guests certainly DOES NOT fit within that religious framework.
Reply away if you wish, but I believe I've stated my position in the best way I can.
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Note: This post may contain false or misleading statements relating to COVID-19. Visit CDC.gov for the facts.
As a Christian, and as someone who never covered my face since day one of all this nonsense of rule changing and vax shamming, I’m gonna just do what I’ve been doing. I don’t owe anyone my personal health information, and I will gladly let the park know I’m exempt from covering my face. I don’t have to tell them that I don’t want the vaccine/therapy shot. My prerogative. See ya at the park.
Real Christians accept folks for who they are. The real hypocrisy is the folks that want to try and judge others for not getting a vaccine that doesn’t even have a track record and is actually killing people and people still get sick from taking the shot. By the way, all you pro vaxxers on here, if you are so scared of the anti vaxxers then why are you scared? Aren’t you confident in being protected by the shot? If you live in that much fear just stay home. Folks can make their own responsible decisions when it comes to being out in public . As a healthy young lady, I’m confident enough in my health, save a medical condition which I won’t wear a mask for, I’ll also say hard pass to the vaccine. You want it fine, I won’t judge, no one should judge or shame those who don’t want the vaccine. It’s simple as that, don’t want to have the self confidence in yourself around others, just stay home. We’ve been doing this for centuries. I can’t actually think of someone who would be ignorant enough to go out in public by feeling rough or being sick. But to imply silly rules and start to ask about personal health of people, that’s a big no-no.
Well I never cared much about pro vaxxers thoughts either but still gotta respect it, and whether you like it or not, you have to respect those like me and more than half of the country that don’t want any part of the vaccine.
I'd say closer to 80%, at least in my experience, but that's of course a guesstimate.
Here's what I'll say:
1) Although staffing issues were definitely an issue, I don't necessarily think that it would have been dramatically different under normal circumstances? Finnegan's not operating does create a potential issue, and Nessie and Apollo's were down for at least some of the time, but all the coasters were open and they just all had really long lines. I think there were just a lot of people there, and outside of throwing a second team on Verbolten to run both stations I don't really know what the options were.
2) Obviously, the food booth lines remain an issue with fewer dining options available, but both Festhaus and Trapper's seemed to have reasonable lines every time I was there, so at least there was some options on that front.
3) In terms of masks, it was really fascinating trying to parse people's decision-making. I wondered at times if people realized the mask policy had changed or not: the parking booth told you the policy had changed, but that wasn't communicated to me at all, and if you didn't read the piece of paper the fact that none of the signs in the park have been changed over created some confusion. That said, there's no question that there is zero enforcement at this point: while adults may be on an honor system, I saw zero efforts to police masks for kids under 12 (or, technically, under 16, since those 12-15 cannot be fully vaccinated for weeks).
4) I basically spent the whole time trying to figure out who wasn't wearing a mask for what reasons, and the only time I got any clarity was the dude with the "Vaccinated AF" t-shirt.
The venn diagram of people who are refusing to get the vaccine and are also christian is basically a circle.
It is absolutely not a coincidence.
Where is your peer-reviewed scientific proof that the vaccine is killing anyone?
Also, people getting sick from vaccinations is actually kinda normal in general - the 'sickness' can vary per individual but ultimately is the body's immune system learning to recognize the virus so it can destroy it. Source: https://www.hhs.gov/immunization/basics/safety/side-effects/index.html
I can't speak for everyone, but anti-vaxxers don't cause panic or fear, but heavy concern and frustration.
I may not convince you since you seem set in your way here, but with vaccinations (which contrary to conspiracy theories was rigorously tested and used medical science knowledge from previous breakthroughs) there is a chance of eradicating this virus.
Problem is when people start using flawed logic that means we're in this limbo state for potentially ever.
I don't know about you, but I'd much rather not hear about an unvaccinated individual visiting a park and potentially being the cause of viral spread - something that the previously enforced mask and distancing rules helped to mitigate.
You're simply wrong. The data does no bare out your claim at all.
Religious Identities and the Race Against the Virus: Engaging Faith Communities on COVID-19 Vaccination: (Wave 1: March 2021)
Findings from the 2021 PRRI-IFYC Religious Diversity and Vaccine Survey.
www.prri.org
Vaccine skepticism runs deep among white evangelicals in US
The president of the Southern Baptist Convention, America’s largest evangelical denomination, posted a photo on Facebook last week of him getting the COVID-19 vaccine.
apnews.com
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