COVID-19 Impacts on Kings Dominion

[MikeLovesKD]

I feel like calling the park and finding out for myself.

I'm not going to be all that bent out of shape if I305 is open. Now if May comes and they can't even get an outdoor coaster working; I'd expect there would be backlash. I'm am well prepared for the park to make an announcement about "LIMITED ATTRACTIONS". I won't be too mad about it, if we at least get I305 and Twister Timbers.

 

[BGWnut]

If all the rides are open, that would be great.

The only thing left to speculate would be operations hours. I've been crossing my fingers for 10:00am-8:00pm for the month of May. Once mid June hits, you could start doing Mon-Thurs: 10:00am-8:00pm and Fri-Sun: 10:00am-10:00pm.

In the normal world, we would be doing 10:00pm closing daily operation; but with a pandemic it's probably wise to save a few dollars. Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays could be your late closing hours. Remember; not everyone is going to stay the entire day. Some people will arrive at the park by 1:00pm or 2:00pm. I doubt with the pandemic that the water park will be open, so it's all games and rides.

So what will the park do with Flight of Fear? We've all speculated that it would be closed due to it being a enclosed building. There is a simple way to deal with this. I've mentioned this before. They could do a reverse queue. The exit would become the entrance. Once a full train is filled, the next group of people can enter the station. The returning train, then exits through the flying saucer, before the next group of people enter the station.

I think you are being pretty optimistic with those hours. With the capacity restrictions I think you will see shorter days. Maybe something like 10-5 or 10-6. They will want to limit the money they spend while the capacity is restricted. It's ultimately the same reason why BGW is doing two sessions. It allows them to have more people visiting the park on a day than otherwise possible. I understand that SFA does it differently. However under the VA guidelines it hasn't really been possible for the parks to do that.

I would expect more rides to be open, but I also think it's unrealistic to expect every ride to be open. BGW is planning on opening up more of the park in March. However, I think there is no way that the every ride is open. I think it's very likely that we see a ride currently open sacrificed for Apollo and Tempesto. Hopefully I'm wrong about that. But it's the fact that right now these parks don't have a lot of staff because there aren't a lot of people exactly lining up to work there.

In addition to rides being closed, it also seems likely that but every restaurant and snack stand will be open.

Now a lot can change between now and Memorial Day weekend. They might be able to get more people hired and be ready for a closer to normal operation.

 

[bill s]

I wouldn't be surprised anymore by anything they do. However, the normal reason for waiting would be to do it right. Or, in this case, to allow conditions to improve to allow everything to approach normal. There may be a couple of things delayed a few weeks, just like sometimes a ride is closed for spring maintenance.

Of course, the only thing they need to do to make me happy is reopen smoking areas.

 

[warfelg]

This shouldn't be a shocker, but things aren't going to approach "normal" you'll be waiting til likely 2022. Restrictions and mask mandates are likely to stick around for a while even after we reach 'herd immunity' because we're going to be studying the effects of the vaccine on the fly, which will still require caution.

 

[MikeLovesKD]

I wouldn't be surprised anymore by anything they do. However, the normal reason for waiting would be to do it right. Or, in this case, to allow conditions to improve to allow everything to approach normal. There may be a couple of things delayed a few weeks, just like sometimes a ride is closed for spring maintenance.

Of course, the only thing they need to do to make me happy is reopen smoking areas.

10:00am-5:00pm?

It makes sense; but I'm wondering who is going to show up with such limited times? Take into account that Maryland, Northern VA and Washington D.C. have not experience this yet. What I mean by that; is that KD opened for a short period of time and you could stay until close. Same with Six Flags America. That was because both state governors allowed the parks to operate with higher capacity numbers. This decision came much later for Virginia. Bush Gardens continued with the time slots, where KD only required arrival time. If the park had a choice; I would think it's smarter to let guest stay until closing. It would be such a major drop in enthusiasm for guest to visit KD's page and greeted with only two slot times. If the month of May, allows the park to operate at fifty percent of it's normal capacity; I don't see what the harm is with letting guest stay until close.

As for available staff; I can see your argument to that. If there aren't many staff members, it is rather difficult to have everything open. Here is my list with limited attractions.

- Planet Snoopy
- Dominator
- Blue Ridge Tollway(Limited Hours)
- Delirium
- Wave Swinger
- Twisted Timbers
- Racer 75
- Carousel
- Dodgem
- Anaconda
- I305
- Avalanche
- Stunt Coaster

Notice, in the list; I chose a lot of family attractions. I almost left I305 out to give Anaconda some attention. The only major thrill rides on the list being; Twisted Timbers, Dominator and Anaconda if you don't include Intimidator. I still feel the park could turn a decent crowd at fifty percent of it's normal capacity if I305 was not on the list. The psychology is convincing people who live past Fredericksburg, VA to book reservations and visit a park that may potentially not have everything operating. The enthusiasm would be family and a few thrilling favorites. As the park starts to see more reservations; they could open more attractions.

 

[BGWnut]

10:00am-5:00pm?

It makes sense; but I'm wondering who is going to show up with such limited times? Take into account that Maryland, Northern VA and Washington D.C. have not experience this yet. What I mean by that; is that KD opened for a short period of time and you could stay until close. Same with Six Flags America. That was because both state governors allowed the parks to operate with higher capacity numbers. This decision came much later for Virginia. Bush Gardens continued with the time slots, where KD only required arrival time. If the park had a choice; I would think it's smarter to let guest stay until closing. It would be such a major drop in enthusiasm for guest to visit KD's page and greeted with only two slot times. If the month of May, allows the park to operate at fifty percent of it's normal capacity; I don't see what the harm is with letting guest stay until close.

As for available staff; I can see your argument to that. If there aren't many staff members, it is rather difficult to have everything open. Here is my list with limited attractions.

- Planet Snoopy
- Dominator
- Blue Ridge Tollway(Limited Hours)
- Delirium
- Wave Swinger
- Twisted Timbers
- Racer 75
- Carousel
- Dodgem
- Anaconda
- I305
- Avalanche
- Stunt Coaster

Notice, in the list; I chose a lot of family attractions. I almost left I305 out to give Anaconda some attention. The only major thrill rides on the list being; Twisted Timbers, Dominator and Anaconda if you don't include Intimidator. I still feel the park could turn a decent crowd at fifty percent of it's normal capacity if I305 was not on the list. The psychology is convincing people who live past Fredericksburg, VA to book reservations and visit a park that may potentially not have everything operating. The enthusiasm would be family and a few thrilling favorites. As the park starts to see more reservations; they could open more attractions.

I never said that KD would do two sessions. Simply attempted to explain the logic why it was a smart decision by BGW and would have been by KD had they chosen to open last year beyond they very short opening they had.

I do think that it's rather likely that we could see 10-5 or 10-6 operations. I'm honestly not sure that there will be enough business/staffing for them to justify being open much longer than that.

 

[Memles]

Whoever came up with the two sessions plan at BGW is definitely deserving of a pat on the back, as it saved half an operating season. I would agree though that it’s unlikely for KD: I think you’re more likely to simply see shorter days to start, and then adjustments as they see what demos are up for visiting the park come May. Is it mostly families who tend not to stay late? Is it younger adults who are looking for more of an evening out? The one thing that the two session system did was isolate and target those two audiences: whichever one seems to be dominant might dictate where KD puts their schedule to start, and how they shift when kids get out of school.

 

[rswashdc]

Whoever came up with the two sessions plan at BGW is definitely deserving of a pat on the back, as it saved half an operating season. I would agree though that it’s unlikely for KD: I think you’re more likely to simply see shorter days to start, and then adjustments as they see what demos are up for visiting the park come May. Is it mostly families who tend not to stay late? Is it younger adults who are looking for more of an evening out? The one thing that the two session system did was isolate and target those two audiences: whichever one seems to be dominant might dictate where KD puts their schedule to start, and how they shift when kids get out of school.

If Busch Gardens has to put caps on the number of attendees to get the park open and maintain social distancing you may see ticket price increase to bludgeon demand a bit and ensure there's enough revenue coming to cover higher operating costs per visitor. Alternatively you could see timed tickets (e.g. 2 or 3 block times each day) or some other limitation method to keep attendance down.

From last May. Let me know where to send the bill for my consulting fees.

Re: KD, the main concern I see trimming back while BGW is moving full steam ahead is they are effectively rebranding the park as a lower tier park than it has been. I'm not saying the strategy is wrong if the financials can't support a larger operation under COVID restrictions, but it's definitely concerning as a passholder where this is going and if the park is going to be worth it anymore.

 

[BGWnut]

From last May. Let me know where to send the bill for my consulting fees.

Re: KD, the main concern I see trimming back while BGW is moving full steam ahead is they are effectively rebranding the park as a lower tier park than it has been. I'm not saying the strategy is wrong if the financials can't support a larger operation under COVID restrictions, but it's definitely concerning as a passholder where this is going and if the park is going to be worth it anymore.

I think KD has to look more at what BGW is doing. BGW seems to be moving forward with a plan to have the entire park open in March. If that's what happens and BGW continues to increase what's open that will definitely have to factor into their plans.

As if that wasn't enough of a wrinkle, you add in the fact that BGW is moving to year round operations. I think of all things putting pressure on KD it's that. That's a huge value add for BGW. There are no longer dead months where you pay even if you can't go.

 

[horsesboy]

the other item that will make KD look bad is if SFA opens early to. Being sneezed between two competitors who both elect to open before you is really not a good place to be. Hinting to this is that while a sedchule doesn't seem to have been announced SFA is currently taking job application. I can't imagine that they are waiting till May if they are starting to look for employees NOW.

 

[rswashdc]

My best guess in KD taking this pull back path is that Taste of the Season didn't even make an operating profit before indirects. KD probably extrapolates that to the conclusion they cant make money in the spring, so is simply taking the hit and hoping for a better operating environment.

The problem is their loyal customers may start going elsewhere beginning what could be a death spiral to a smaller park.

 

[wombat96]

I think there are three big factors as to why KD is choosing to stay closed this spring.

1. They don't have the staff. It's a very common occurrence to see the park with shuttered rides and closed stands, not because of maintenance, but simply because they don't have enough humans to operate them. Opening in the spring allows them to get more part-time staff like students to help run the park that normally can't in the spring. With the park only opening for a month last year and since we are still in a pandemic, working at a theme park isn't exactly the most sought job at the moment. Opening in May gives the park plenty of cushion room to hire staff and get the park ready for opening without having to close rides due to staffing.

2. They want to open KD and Soak City at the same so the park can debut Coconut Shores at the opening. With BGW shifting to year-round operations and opening a massive new coaster down the road, it seems logical that KD has to respond with some sort of new attraction to warrant a visit. Maybe the park hopes that guidelines will be different come May and they can open the full water park in addition to the regular park. KD has always held an ace over BGW with a water park included with admission, a two-for-one park deal for guests buying day tickets, or even new season pass holders, on paper provides much more value than a single park membership.

3. Why open the park for pass holders when 2021 is already free? Since the 2020 season was a total dud, pass holders received the 2021 season for free. The park isn't going to be receiving any monthly payments from the thousands of pass holders who attend the park. It makes no sense to open the park for some of the least profitable people who visit the park. They don't pay for parking, many of them are on the meal plan, and unless there's some really cool merchandise, they most likely won't spend any money in stores. Virginia in early-spring can be fairly iffy weather-wise, and opening the park with no spring break rush and locals being the majority of the audience isn't going to lead to high attendance numbers.

 

[Mushroom]

I think people need to remember that, from the parks that have announced their opening dates so far, every Cedar Fair park is opening May 22. This isn't some "kiss of death" that Cedar Fair is specifically aiming at Kings Dominion.

The leg-up that BGW gets competition-wise is a different (and legitimate) issue, I just wanted to address the posts that seemed to be arguing that CF has some issue with KD in particular.

 

[horsesboy]

My best guess in KD taking this pull back path is that Taste of the Season didn't even make an operating profit before indirects. KD probably extrapolates that to the conclusion they cant make money in the spring, so is simply taking the hit and hoping for a better operating environment.

The problem is their loyal customers may start going elsewhere beginning what could be a death spiral to a smaller park.

It appears to be a CF corporate call not a KD call as all of their parks are holding back till late May.

 

[rswashdc]

3. Why open the park for pass holders when 2021 is already free? Since the 2020 season was a total dud, pass holders received the 2021 season for free. The park isn't going to be receiving any monthly payments from the thousands of pass holders who attend the park. It makes no sense to open the park for some of the least profitable people who visit the park. They don't pay for parking, many of them are on the meal plan, and unless there's some really cool merchandise, they most likely won't spend any money in stores. Virginia in early-spring can be fairly iffy weather-wise, and opening the park with no spring break rush and locals being the majority of the audience isn't going to lead to high attendance numbers.

Passholders paid for 2020 and got nothing in return nor even the option for a refund. A full 2021 season was the compensation for 2020 being almost entirely closed, so anything less than that is a breach of contract by KD. If KD isn't going to compensate its passholders based on what they paid for, they will get sued and deserve to lose.

I'm giving KD the benefit of the doubt time wise to figure out how they will compensate passholders for the 2 months being pulled from the schedule (possibly more since we haven't seen a full schedule). KD is already charging less for season passes now then they did for early renewal in 2020 which is rarely a good move with customers.

 

[Mushroom]

Passholders paid for 2020 and got nothing in return nor even the option for a refund. A full 2021 season was the compensation for 2020 being almost entirely closed, so anything less than that is a breach of contract by KD. If KD isn't going to compensate its passholders based on what they paid for, they will get sued and deserve to lose.

BGW wasn't open for a full season either, would you say the same about them? While their season was longer, they were still closed for a significant portion of the year and were only open for four-hour special events. How is that any less of a "breach of contract?"

Also, if we want to get nitpicky, Taste of the Season was 12 days long. If the park typically opens the last week of March, there are about 12-14 operating days between opening day and Memorial Day weekend (assuming Saturday-Sunday operation). So, with Taste of the Season's operating days factored into 2021, the park has lost almost no operating days from previous years. Seems like it's a wash to me.

 

[rswashdc]

BGW wasn't open for a full season either, would you say the same about them? While their season was longer, they were still closed for a significant portion of the year and were only open for four-hour special events. How is that any less of a "breach of contract?"

Also, if we want to get nitpicky, Taste of the Season was 12 days long. If the park typically opens the last week of March, there are about 12-14 operating days between opening day and Memorial Day weekend (assuming Saturday-Sunday operation). So, with Taste of the Season's operating days factored into 2021, the park has lost almost no operating days from previous years. Seems like it's a wash to me.

BGW is extending out all memberships with a committed schedule that includes a full season. KD has put an opening date with nothing else - e.g. will Halloween and Winterfest happen in full, will the park be open during the week, etc.

IMO, nice weather spring days with short lines >> Taste of the Season.

 

[Mushroom]

BGW is extending out all memberships with a committed schedule that includes a full season. KD has put an opening date with nothing else - e.g. will
Halloween and Winterfest happen in full, will the park be open during the week, etc.

Sounds like you're just basing your comments on pure speculation. The fact that KD hasn't said anything about Haunt and Winterfest yet - in January - hardly constitutes a "breach of contract."

IMO, nice weather spring days with short lines >> Taste of the Season.

"Your honor, the defendant is guilty because of which type of weather I prefer."

 

[rswashdc]

Sounds like you're just basing your comments on pure speculation. The fact that KD hasn't said anything about Haunt and Winterfest yet - in January - hardly constitutes a "breach of contract."

A bait and switch is illegal and the contract is formed at purchase and typically requires bilateral agreement on modifications. Buying a KD pass based on the 2020 advertised calendar and then replacing it with a slimmed down calendar easily falls under these bait and switch contractual issues. A one for one 2021 replacement schedule or a proportional refund for the shorter calendar would put KD on better legal footing.

 

[warfelg]

A bait and switch is illegal and the contract is formed at purchase and typically requires bilateral agreement on modifications. Buying a KD pass based on the 2020 advertised calendar and then replacing it with a slimmed down calendar easily falls under these bait and switch contractual issues. A one for one 2021 replacement schedule or a proportional refund for the shorter calendar would put KD on better legal footing.

Have you ever read a contract for a park pass? I'm 99% willing to bet that there's a part in there that there's no guarantee of a certain amount of available days. A lawsuit based on "bait and switch" right now would not likely gain much traction. Somewhat like the class action lawsuits against parks for not opening in 2020 went nowhere, this would likely go nowhere.