Christmas Town

[horsesboy]

Also, tons of people were walking over to Scotland/Bavaria when I left the England lot around 10:25, and the police were not restricting them from crossing the street, they actually stopped them so they could help them cross. There's no way they would still send people all the way back after they had already walked that far.

Ok thanks for the info there must have been something else going on with the group I saw it was only a few people but the officer was defiantly pointing back towards the park and arguing with them I just assumed that was true of all the people that were trying.

I've seen people walk to that lot many times at closing.  My guess is what you saw was a massive crowd trying to cross 60 to get to the Scotland/Bavaria lots.  If I recall correctly, there are no designated crosswalks to that lot so the cops must assist the people walking to their cars there.

To be clear what Isaw was a group of about 5-7 people they were stopped by the officer and he was pointing back toward the park I could hear him say you have to go back. From what others are saying this seems to be an isolated incident not the norm but that is what I witnessed. Does anyone know what the actual park/PD policy on these things is or even if there is one? Could it be at the officer discretion.

 

[horsesboy]

Regardless, I think the basic point is valid.  If the park is going to allow crowds at the levels we have been seeing this CT, they need to have the staff, resources, and plans in place to handle them.  They must have known how many cheap tickets they have sold, as well as the effects of warm, dry days on attendance rates.

That is part of what got me I counted only 4 trams going when I finnally caught one come on I know I seen more then that in the park. Yes it's off season and they do maintenance on them but if you are going to try to sell tickets with the intent that you are going to fill to capacity then you need to plan to have resources on hand to handle that. And yes I am in decent shape and could have made that walk but there are some especially during Christmas town that cant do that. I really felt for the families with strollers as I walked pass that line which was going down the hill almost pass the guest services building. It would not want to try and walk that far and then cross 60 with small children in tow.

 

[Jrbgwfan06]

I think the park should also consider an increase in ticket price. It they increase CT's general admission price to $40-45, they could still have a cheap ticket promotion, but make it $20-25 dollars and in turn make a lot more money, but maybe not sell quite as many. Because frankly, CT is still in high demand even without cheap tickets. The four days I have visited CT this year, none of them have been twinkle ticket days, but they have all been extremely busy.

Also, today will be the first Sunday that isn't a twinkle ticket day, but I bet it will be extremely busy, probably in part because of the great weather.

 

[Zachary]

The park really has three options here as I see it:

Increase capacity by opening Forest of Fun (rides and Christmas overlay), Land of the Dragons (lower level only as a children's holiday village area), Festhaus Park (with the old planned Rudolph villiage concept), and/or additional rides (Alpengeist, Griffon, Tempesto, Europe in the Air, DarKastle). The main drawback to this approach is increased operating and staffing costs which make the potential of slower nights more risky to the park.

Alternatively, it may be time to seriously start pricing people out of the event. Go to a tiered, pick-a-day-in-advance pricing structure with Saturdays being the most expensive and weekdays being the least. The con to this method is that the park will have to accept lower attendance numbers and probably less profit made off of food, drink, and merchandising. Obvious pro is increased profit from ticket sales. I don't know that it ends up balancing out though.

The last option I see is to go back to the old way of putting a hard stop on the capacity of the park and turning people away at the gate. The obvious downsides here are a lot of very angry potential customers and leaving money laying on the table.

The crowds are seriously overwhelming right now- cheap ticket day or not. I feel like we're on a real breaking point as far as crowds go. Guests who aren't in the know and don't know what they're doing arrive at five and have a miserable time because they literally can't move. Those aren't people who will turn into repeat customers.

 

[Nicole]

Something else they could do is have specially-designated days for tour groups. I think part of the problem yesterday, which was not a cheap ticket day, was that they were expecting to fill half of the England lot with buses. The park was already heavily crowded and hard to navigate at 3pm, as a result. When the warm weather and date (a Saturday close to Christmas) brought in even more waves of people, the paths and shops were flooded.

Perhaps group sales should be limited to weekdays or Sunday's early in the season? Or maybe there should be a couple tour group-only dates?

Just a thought.

 

[Imaginique]

There were a lot of groups there on Saturday; I was surprised by that. In fact they were blocking Guest Relations near opening, and we needed to get over there, so we had to ask some people to move so we could get to the line. Most of my complaints this season have had to do with rude guests more than anything else.

I love that the Royal Palace Theater now has a show, but there really needs to be a better path design in that area. We did our best to avoid that area for the first Twas That Night, and right as it was ending we hid in the gift shop nearby until the crowds left so we could get into the 8:00 showing. When the show ended, we sat until most people had exited, then took a right though New France. The queue for the Caribou Station was unreal! (I know they were holding the train at the station until the crowd in France dissipated). I think most people had turned to the Wolf Reserve because I saw later on FB the complaints about the gridlock in that area. I know there isn't really a good way to fix traffic flow in that area. My big complaint about BG has always been the tight layout, because when there are too many people there is nowhere to go. We weren't in a hurry, so we sat over at Josephine's awhile, and then sat over by Le Catapult too. (Bonus that they have a working fireplace outside the restrooms!) It may be an awful thing for me to say but I think they should demolish Griffon Gifts because it contributes to people running into each other.

We lucked out much of the night, and avoided most chaos, but if we weren't so lucky we would have had a lot of trouble last night. Since we bought the Christmastown passes we have that luxury of just sitting out of the crowds, but many people do not. I really hope this ends the Twinkle Ticket era.

 

[Ghost of Pretzel Kaiser]

As someone who has no interest in the holiday, these horror stories of crowds are not helping my apathy for CT. I'm not sure the park has much incentive to actually fix these issues, but sooner or later the word is going to get around that the event isn't fun due to the crowds.

In the mean time, I've figured out how to make peppermint cocoa at home.

 

[Imaginique]

Going to horsesboy's issue; I wonder if there is a way to have a walkway to the lots? Last night my group discussed whether or not there was a proper path to get to the Germany lot other than cutting through the France lot (I do know there are stairs once you cross the lanes that cut between France and Germany lot). I get there may be safety issues that make it unlikely to have sidewalks dedicated to that.

 

[Unagi]

If this 15 day forecast for Williamsburg holds, the crowds will get worse, especially the closer it gets to Christmas.

 

[Sky]

I'm headed over on the 20th and I'm genuinely hoping for rain...

 

[Jrbgwfan06]

Uh oh, looks like the weather people switched the forecast for Williamsburg with somewhere in Florida. They should probably fix that.

 

[Zachary]

It may be an awful thing for me to say but I think they should demolish Griffon Gifts because it contributes to people running into each other.

This isn't the right thread for me to say this in, but you're not the only one who has thought Griffon Gifts should go. There have been multiple years recently in which it has narrowly avoided demolition. I expect eventually Pepto-Bismol Tower will end up vanishing.

PS: If anyone is curious or wants to start a conversation about this (I can provide additional info), bring it up in the Aquitaine thread. I wanted to reply here because the fact that park management agrees the structure is a massive guest flow problem is relevant to the current Aquitaine overcrowding discussion.

 

[deacfan31]

The park really has three options here as I see it:

Increase capacity by opening Forest of Fun (rides and Christmas overlay), Land of the Dragons (lower level only as a children's holiday village area), Festhaus Park (with the old planned Rudolph villiage concept), and/or additional rides (Alpengeist, Griffon, Tempesto, Europe in the Air, DarKastle). The main drawback to this approach is increased operating and staffing costs which make the potential of slower nights more risky to the park.

Alternatively, it may be time to seriously start pricing people out of the event. Go to a tiered, pick-a-day-in-advance pricing structure with Saturdays being the most expensive and weekdays being the least. The con to this method is that the park will have to accept lower attendance numbers and probably less profit made off of food, drink, and merchandising. Obvious pro is increased profit from ticket sales. I don't know that it ends up balancing out though.

The last option I see is to go back to the old way of putting a hard stop on the capacity of the park and turning people away at the gate. The obvious downsides here are a lot of very angry potential customers and leaving money laying on the table.

The crowds are seriously overwhelming right now- cheap ticket day or not. I feel like we're on a real breaking point as far as crowds go. Guests who aren't in the know and don't know what they're doing arrive at five and have a miserable time because they literally can't move. Those aren't people who will turn into repeat customers.

You could add that on Friday - Sunday, especially if they continue to sell the "twinkle ticket", and on known heavy that they could open the other areas of the park. At least that way they don't have to have full staffing on sometimes slower weekdays. And turn those days into "twinkle ticket days". I think a floating scale with admission to help with crowds could be good and bad but at this point all options should be on the table.

 

[Username]

Went to the park yesterday (Sunday) for a brief visit and agree that BG has a major guest flow issue with the event. The capacity really should be fine, they just need to better figure out how to distribute people throughout the park.

Park was busy but not slammed (main lots filled, overflow not open). Walking through the park, we kept noticing that one moment an area is crammed with people and you can barely move then all of a sudden, we felt like the park was empty.

Because the main focus is shows, people basically move in this giant hoard instead of being evenly distributed within a park that should be able to accommodate the masses.

 

[Imaginique]

Good point, MCMM. We had a running joke about that Saturday night; it seems like people would all bunch together, and then there would be an odd wide open area between the crowds. I guess humans tend to move in herds. We found if we stepped out of the herd, we could then get back on the walkways after they passed. Not ideal for everyone, so there does need to be improvements.

 

[James]

The biggest problem with people ending up in big groups is this event is so look and see. So you have people stopping a lot more in certain locations and it jams everyone up. Those places seem to be around Ireland, France, and England.

 

[PrincessArlenasDad]

I'm sorry, but I don't think they'll stop the Twinkle Tickets. One of the difficulties for Busch Gardens and Christmas Town is that the crowds are so weather dependent, and the park really isn't open that many days for the event. This year (and last year) have had amazing weather. But, if I remember correctly, 2013 had a lot of bad weather, especially in the early operating days, and the park was empty more often than not. I think it is significant that it was following this bad weather year that the Twinkle Ticket was introduced.

What the Twinkle Tickets do is get people to commit to coming to the park, and thus a minimum attendance, even if there is a bad weather year.

While, this year (and last year) has had great weather, and Twinkle Tickets probably are not needed, what if next year has bad weather again?

I'm thinking that the Twinkle Tickets are like insurance against bad weather.

Also, with this amazing weather, the park is going to be more crowded than they can possibly plan for. Given they must plan for this event months before the weather will be known, if they plan the event for this type of weather, and get weather like 2013, they will lose too much money.

Bottom line, they need to plan for average Dec weather. If the great weather brings extra large crowds, so be it.

My guess is they keep the current strategy (with maybe a tweak or so in regards to pricing and dates of Twinkle Tickets) and see how it goes next year (when, chances are, weather will be more average).

 

[Nicole]

I don't think most people are saying they should get rid of the cheap tickets. I think people are advocating that BGW make an attempt to manage the program better, and more importantly, manage the crowd issues across the board better.

I think several reasonable suggestions have been made for ways in which the park can control the massive waves of people we have been seeing on the paths this year. I do not thing leaving it the way it is, because next year the weather might be worse, however, makes a lot of sense.

 

[Jrbgwfan06]

One of the major issues that causes crowd packing in Banbury is they have the Carolers performing on the steps of the Globe. They desperately need to move them back to Big Ben because people gather around them in the middle of the very narrow path in that area. It's especially bad when they're doing their post-closing performance and everyone's trying to exit. This past Saturday, it literally took me 5 minutes to walk from Big Ben to the Scrooge and Marley facade, because there was almost zero flow. Speaking of which, they need to take out that facade, or shrink it back closer to the globe.

Anyways, I don't think they should necessarily get rid of the cheap tickets either. But honestly, they need to drastically increase general admission price, as Zachary said, they need to price people out of the event. That way they can still have a cheap ticket promotion, but make a ton more money out of it, but not have as many people purchase it because of the price.

 

[Luke]

I too have been stuck there...literally every visit to CT (which has been almost every operating day....livid...they do need to move them over to big ben. I hate large crowds but I can usually just "deal" with it. However, there have been a couple of instances were I almost panicked. Everyone gets packed tightly in there. I could easily see someone getting hurt.