Busch Brawls

[WDWRLD]

Disney is currently massively limiting attendance by holders of pass products through their park reservations system

Have you been to The Magic Kingdom since Oct 1st? Nightly now the crowds look like 4th of July very night. Heck the end of the line for the resort monorail started inside the park one night. 2 Hour waits for popcorn and 1 hour waits once you submit a mobile food order was never a thing before covid and the park reservations which limits guests.

 

[qdeathstar]

I’m surprised people are willing to wait more than 15 minutes for popcorn….

 

[finalcloud]

I’m surprised people are willing to wait more than 15 minutes for popcorn….

But it's the 50th anniversary magical popcorn!!!!!!

 

[Nicole]

I know. Your just being rude and shouting straw man over and over again instead of 1) specifically saying what the straw man argument was in relation to the argument I was making ( because we have talked about several different things in the topic) or 2) addressing the arguments at hand. BTW, a rolls eyes emoji is also rude and a weak form of expression.


The person I was talking to admitted they had no data. So if that’s the case then defacto, they are believing in things without evidence.

I didn’t say I knew what the price elasticity of demand or marginal cost of a guest was, but that I am sure Busch Gardens knows what it is and has chosen the appropriate revenue maximizing price point accordingly.

The closest someone has came to providing any evidence that the violence is caused by low prices is a study that people value higher priced things more. So we are all talking with limited data or evidence. We have a little of anecdotal evidence, most of which discredits the popular theory on this forum.

I don’t think the vendiagram of price value and violence perfectly over lap.


Shouting straw man over and over again while pretending to not make an argument is rude. straw man straw man…. Pointing out what limited evidence we do have partially discredits a theory is not a straw man argument. Your making a lot of accusations simply because you disagree with what I am saying. I haven’t been rude to anyone but if you insist on clapping at me it’s only fair to expect a clap back

I am "shouting?" Really? No, I am identifying the rhetorical construct you are using, rather than engaging in reasonable and polite debate.

I was clearly responding to the specific post that I quoted. In that post, which was specifically directed at me, personally, since you only quoted me, you said, "You all say whatever you say, make assumptions about what will happen when what you say is enacted, for sure. I agree you haven’t explicitly said 'I want less people at the park.'” My point was that I never said those things, so accusing me of advocating for opinions I do not actually hold and then criticizing those made-up positions, is a straw man argument.

I identified another straw man argument that you made about other people's theories. They addressed both day tickets and Fun Cards. You ignored the day tickets, which are clearly relevant to people from NC, and instead focused entirely on the Fun Cards, which may or may not be relevant. Based on that inaccurate representation of their argument, you provided a sneering response. The straw man in this case was the false representation of their position.

Since my post (again the one you decided to respond to directly) had nothing to do with price elasticity of demand, marginal value, Venn diagrams, or any other specifics of the discussion, I'm not sure of their relevance. My point has been and will continue to be that your approach to the debate is consistently and unnecessarily aggressive.

I am not "pretending" not to make an argument. My only interest in this discussion is to keep it civil. As I said previously, I believe this is a wicked problem and none of us have the data or expertise to assess the complex system that is leading to the uptick in violence, nor do we have the tools assess the best solution.

 

[WDWRLD]

But it's the 50th anniversary magical popcorn!!!!!!

Its not even the popcorn they want....its the popcorn buckets!

 

[Zachary]

could you quote a personal attack I made against you?

Direct ad hominem:

"an argument only a privileged person can make"

Misrepresenting arguments and inserting dog whistles to engage in an ad hominem (opposition = racist):

"Raise prices to keep the riff raff out."

"you all wanted to raise prices in order to keep unwelcome people out"

Intentionally misrepresenting an argument to engage in an ad hominem (opposition = selfish):

"The logic is “it would be good for me if there were less people at the park”


Instead of debating ideas and concepts on their merits you repeatedly regress to attacking the people making them within just a few posts of someone engaging with you. Anyone can see it all throughout this thread @qdeathstar.

Again, this is why I'm done arguing the merits of these ideas with you. You're willing to sit there and feign innocence when collecting those quotes took me literally 30 seconds. I'm sorry, but it's just way too late to claim you're arguing in good faith now.

Anyway, that's all from me until I spy another blatant falicy being employed to shut down good faith conversation 'round here.

 

[qdeathstar]

Direct ad hominem:

"an argument only a privileged person can make"

Misrepresenting arguments and inserting dog whistles to engage in an ad hominem (opposition = racist):

"Raise prices to keep the riff raff out."

"you all wanted to raise prices in order to keep unwelcome people out"

Intentionally misrepresenting an argument to engage in an ad hominem (opposition = selfish):

"The logic is “it would be good for me if there were less people at the park”


Instead of debating ideas and concepts on their merits

I did debate the idea. I explained why they were meritless, as above. I explained why it was racist.

I did say I didn’t think you were being explicitly racist, but the policy itself is inherently racist. I wasn’t attacking you, I was attacking idea of the racist policy.

I don’t think I misrepresented what you want. You want to keep people who start fights out of the park. The riff raff. I think if you look it up in the dictionary that’s what riff raff means.

And, in the end, you are being selfish. So I reckon one truthful adhominable attack is just fine.

Anyway, that's all from me

But you still keep coming back for more quotey goodness.

 

[netdvn]

So this took place at HHN last night. It was apparently slammed

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So it doesn't matter how much you charge your guests. People will act entitled and be really shitty to each other no matter where you are. Throw in a couple mixed drinks and watch the fireworks fly.

I was there last night, but I arrived after most of the crowd left so it was smooth sailing for me.

 

[rswashdc]

So this took place at HHN last night. It was apparently slammed

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So it doesn't matter how much you charge your guests. People will act entitled and be really shitty to each other no matter where you are. Throw in a couple mixed drinks and watch the fireworks fly.

I was there last night, but I arrived after most of the crowd left so it was smooth sailing for me.

The common denominator in these incidents seems to be how crowded the parks are and them becoming unmanageable, though price drives crowd size so it’s a factor. A different model with smaller crowds and higher prices on what are typically very busy days would help significantly, maybe looking at Discovery Cove as a model.

 

[warfelg]

The common denominator in these incidents seems to be how crowded the parks are and them becoming unmanageable, though price drives crowd size so it’s a factor. A different model with smaller crowds and higher prices on what are typically very busy days would help significantly, maybe looking at Discovery Cove as a model.

Variable pricing is great and all but you run the risk on a run of tickets last minute due to lower rates.

Honestly, to me the simplest answer to me is they have to find a way to get staffing up or cut back on hours massively. Hell I’d be ok with 11-4 it’s The front half of the park only and 4-10 it’s the full park so they need less staff and can save them for later.

Truth is though the employment base post-ish pandemic is no where near the size it was pre-pandemic. And it doesn’t look like there’s going to be any change to this anytime soon. We’re in this for a while.

 

[Zachary]

The impressive thing about that Uni video that really sets it apart from the BGW videos we've seen is just how many uniformed security and cops showed up and how quickly they arrived.

 

[qdeathstar]

So this took place at HHN last night. It was apparently slammed

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So it doesn't matter how much you charge your guests. People will act entitled and be really shitty to each other no matter where you are. Throw in a couple mixed drinks and watch the fireworks fly.

I was there last night, but I arrived after most of the crowd left so it was smooth sailing for me.

Still waiting for people here to see enough of this evidence to reevaluate their half baked solutions.

 

[qdeathstar]

The impressive thing about that Uni video that really sets it apart from the BGW videos we've seen is just how many uniformed security and cops showed up and how quickly they arrived.

Yes, because that is the best way to deal with the issue. If that means closing some attractions until you can provide adequate security for them, so be it. Btw, flossing attractions will also lower the demand for tickets, while also lowering bge’s operating cost.

 

[Zachary]

Maybe it should mean raising prices until you can afford that level of a security force. (Read: Uni's actual method.)

 

[qdeathstar]

Maybe it should mean raising prices until you can afford that level of a security force. (Read: Uni's actual method.)

Your goal is to stop fights. How did that go? Derp.

 

[Nicole]

Derp.

Rude

 

[qdeathstar]

Maybe it should mean raising prices until you can afford that level of a security force. (Read: Uni's actual method.)

There is a labor shortage. There aren’t people to hire. You can’t just throw any schmo into a uniform and call them a security guard. Also there isn’t a shred of evidence to suggest BGE can’t afford security guards.

 

[WDWRLD]

The impressive thing about that Uni video that really sets it apart from the BGW videos we've seen is just how many uniformed security and cops showed up and how quickly they arrived.

At about 30 seconds into that video both park security and uniformed officers were there. Now who knows how long that incident had been going on when video started and its really hard to see when security first arrived. Another diffrence I noted between this and the say Apollo video is the bystanders. At Uni many tried to seperate people where at BGW the bystanders all began running around creating secondary chaos to the primary event.

 

[Ryan Carter]

my friend is at BGW tonight and he told me yes there is a fight over by Dystopia by Pompi. Can anyone explain exactly what happened if anyone sawed it? Also were there other incidents going on tonight as well? Please let me know.

 

[qdeathstar]

My friend was there last night and he didn’t see any fights, must of been a false alarm!