Busch Brawls

[warfelg]

I think if you go back and read posts you’ll realize you’ve missed the point. What we object to is the idea that higher prices will keep out the unworthy. That is a discriminatory thought.

I’ve read it and I wouldn’t make the comments if I didn’t.

The reason you think that raising prices is a discriminatory thought isn’t on @Zachary ’s end for suggesting it. In my opinion it’s on your end for the assumption that there’s a certain race that would be effected by the issue more than Another.

The only reason I don’t assume that raising the rates will solve the issue is because the underlying issues that cause them have more to do with mentality than income level. Which has nothing to do with race.

FWIW it’s also quite insensitive to assume that poor people will be priced out. My family was objectively poor but we did everything we could to save pennies and took every experience at a discount we could. Just because we didn’t have money doesn’t mean we couldn’t do things. When we couldn’t get a discount we understood that it meant having to sacrifice elsewhere.

 

[Icer]

This is a fun place

 

[bill s]

A higher price will make it so only those fully interested will be willing to pay it, and reduce crowding. In some cases it can increase perceived value, but in this case it could also result in feeling let down. I think of the problem is tensions and attitudes being brought in from outside the park, and not leaving all that behind which is the main purpose. However I speculate that some of the combatants could consider fighting part of having fun, and therefore not see it as that out of place.

As to Fun Cards, they would be at the beginning not the end of their term, so visits aren't "free" yet. Maybe other deals are really cheap -- or BAFF?

This isn’t a brawl, but I wasn’t sure where to put this:

I was walking in Meat Market when a woman behind me started running from a creature and fell on top of me. I was ready to move on because I’ve been through worse, but the First Aid team was very courteous and eager to help. I had blood running down my leg, which they cleaned up, amd they gave me some ice for my cheekbone, which I fell on. All in all, great customer service experience, but why would you go to HOS if you know you’re going to be so afraid you’re going to run people down? Oddly enough, her kid didn’t seem afraid at all, and made sure I was okay.

I was nearly trampled by 4 large people once, startled by a chainsaw, and jumped out of the way in the nick of time. I doubt they expected being scared would be that much of a problem, although don't know why their unanimous response was to run, it wasn't mine, although I wasn't as close. Mixed feelings about this, it was a good scare!

This is somewhat relevant as a point of comparison of risk.

 

[qdeathstar]

I’ve read it and I wouldn’t make the comments if I didn’t.

The reason you think that raising prices is a discriminatory thought isn’t on @Zachary ’s end for suggesting it. In my opinion it’s on your end for the assumption that there’s a certain race that would be effected by the issue more than Another.

Well there is no assumption because the wealth and income gap is well documented and caused by systematically racist policies. And it’s not that raising prices is racist, it’s that raising them with the belief that it will keep x people out is. You choosing to focus on half of what I said.

 

[Zachary]

And it’s not that raising prices is racist, it’s that raising them with the belief that it will keep x people out is. You choosing to focus on half of what I said.

Hey now, whatever word you're implying with your variable there (x) really matters to this conversation.

If the goal is to "keep [a race, gender, etc] out," that is clearly an awful form of discrimination—racism, sexism, etc. If the goal, however, is to "keep [people with less ability/willingness to pay] out," that is just standard, everyday pricing. This is where I'm having a problem with your posts—you keep conflating raising prices to limit a product's market with racism or another horribly immoral form of discrimination.

Prices, by their very nature, are exclusionary/discriminatory. That doesn't make prices immoral though, right? Scratch that—I won't even argue this on the standard pricing front. Lets stick to luxury purchases.

Luxury goods and services are, by their very nature, priced in such a way as to exclude people from their audience. Does that mean that "luxury goods = immortal discrimination (or even racism)?"

 

[belsaas]

Luxury goods and services are, by their very nature, priced in such a way as to exclude people from their audience. Does that mean that "luxury goods = immortal discrimination (or even racism)?"

Ah, and now we get to the real point. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism my comrades!

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[Zachary]

Ah, and now we get to the real point. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism my comrades!

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I'm more receptive to this argument than people may think given my stance in this discussion.

That said, I'm taking a "don't hate the player, hate the game" position as it relates to the park. Unfortunately, one private entity can't reasonably be expected to fix our country's horribly broken and inequitable systemic economic injustices.

 

[WDWRLD]

Normal bag check or x-ray machines (which Uni and some Six Flags parks have added) are more likely to find small bottles than the metal detectors. They could also take stroller checks more seriously.

Perhaps they should focus on improving their screening, rather than setting potentially dangerous policies.

Refillable cups are allowed to be filled when they pass through security…..what waste money on airline bottles?

Not just liquor a friend that is a JCC cop said that they are seeing a significant increase in hard drugs this year connected to Howl-O-Scream. He said that there have been several reports and even a few arrest for drug use in the parking lot and that is a major factor in the no reentry policy.

We already determined everyone here says weed is fine and should be allowed.

 

[horsesboy]

We already determined everyone here says weed is fine and should be allowed.

When did we determine that? Because I seem to recall another of us saying. These things.

The entire park smells like weed during hos.

This is honestly just another big reason for the park to bite the bullet and ban all smoking inside the park like some CF parks did.

Ban smoking and vaping. Disney did it with no adverse effects, other than whining from smokers.

That doesn't sound like an and endorsement of it to me.

 

[Dogface]

I enjoy smoking cannabis and being high. I think it’s great fun to be stoned at BGW. And I love having a couple of beers in the Festhaus craft room. But I strongly dislike the smell of smoked marijuana, smoked anything really except for that trappers bbq. Smelling pot in the park is one of the quickest ways to break park immersion imo, like a good ol Busch brawl. If I want to be drunk or high in the park, I still want to enjoy the smells and atmosphere of the park. If Busch really wants to allow smoking in a themed park (in a time where KD doesn’t) then they need to create an Amsterdam in the trees for all the shitheads. That would be both amusing and themed. /s

 

[Nicole]

I think if you go back and read posts you’ll realize you’ve missed the point. What we object to is the idea that higher prices will keep out the unworthy. That is a discriminatory thought.

Who ever said anything about keeping out “the unworthy” or any other class of people? It appears that you have built a straw man, accused others of advocating for it, and them condemned the idea.

 

[qdeathstar]

Who ever said anything about keeping out “the unworthy” or any other class of people? It appears that you have built a straw man, accused others of advocating for it, and them condemned the idea.

Not really. That’s how the whole conversation got started. Raise prices to keep the riff raff out.

 

[Nicole]

No. You added “riff raff.”

Raising prices to increase perceived value and/or make people less likely to take a park visit for granted is not the same as pricing a class of people out of the market. It is rather insulting to assume one group of people cannot make budgetary decisions to choose and prioritize a park as a a preferred expense.

 

[Thomas]

Riff raff deserves to enjoy BGW just as much as anyone else. Especially at HOS.

 

[ryguyof87]

What in the world...

 

[Jonesta6]

It is rather insulting to assume one group of people cannot make budgetary decisions to choose and prioritize a park as a a preferred expense.

So much this - people have some kind of savior complex that makes them believe they know how poor people should spend their money. Just because they're not wealthy doesn't mean they can't decide for themselves if they can figure out a way to afford anything.

 

[Nicole]

Just be clear, I never said “poor.” I am referring to everyone. Very few people don’t have to prioritize expenses.

 

[qdeathstar]

No. You added “riff raff.”

Raising prices to increase perceived value and/or make people less likely to take a park visit for granted is not the same as pricing a class of people out of the market. It is rather insulting to assume one group of people cannot make budgetary decisions to choose and prioritize a park as a a preferred expense.

Look, you can can play games all you want but it is clear that the reason you all wanted to raise prices in order to keep unwelcome people out. You can dice it up all you like but the effect of raising prices is what it is. I’ve demonstrated what it actually does instead of some fairy tale perversion that you and your buddy Zachary seem to want to believe.

The idea is without merit and there isn’t a shred of evidence it would work. A trip to busch gardens isn’t a sofa. If raising prices was the answer everything would cost a million dollars.

 

[qdeathstar]

So much this - people have some kind of savior complex that makes them believe they know how poor people should spend their money. Just because they're not wealthy doesn't mean they can't decide for themselves if they can figure out a way to afford anything.

This is very naive. Sure people can save and budget. That ain’t the point. A price increase will have a higher impact on a poor person than a rich person, and because minorities tend to be poorer due to systematic racism raising prices will hurt them more. And if your doing it to keep a group of people out there is implicit racism in that, even if your goal isnt to keep minority out de facto.

 

[Zachary]

Look, you can can play games all you want but it is clear that the reason you all wanted to raise prices in order to keep unwelcome people out.

This is an assertion without evidence.

I’ve demonstrated what it actually does instead of some fairy tale perversion

You definitely haven't done that. I'm still patiently awaiting a coherent justification for—or even just a description of—your argument.

You've flopped between happier people aren't less likely to cause fights, luxury goods are racist, expensive things are immortal discrimination—I don't know what your actual argument is. I do know that you're suddenly being super aggro again though and I'm not sure what caused that either.

@UncleDuncan's case—as I understand it—correct me if I'm wrong—was that the potential collateral damage of higher prices could be to price certain people out of the experience and that potential collateral damage was too high a price to pay. Those are his opinions—I get where he's coming from—even if I disagree with him, I respect his position.

You, on the other hand, keep coming back to try to mischaracterize the price argument as an inherently immortal or even racist one—which, thus far, is a claim that CERTAINLY has not been substantiated by anything beyond your assertions.

A trip to busch gardens isn’t a sofa.

Explain the expensive wine and hotel studies linked previously. The influence of prices on perceived value of consumables seems to have already been demonstrated.


Anyway, if you agree with @UncleDuncan, just say so. He made his case. If you think capitalism is inherently immortal and prices above a good or service's actual cost to produce are unjustifiable discrimination, just say that. Hell, post random nonsense or don't reply at all—no worries there either—I'm very happy to drop this.

Basically, just do something that isn't calling the people who are arguing with you in good faith a bunch of awful racists.