I said this weeks ago and people said they need less security "bullying" people in the park......but they need more security that is there to take no shit from anyone.
Busch Brawls
- Thread starter Murphy
- Start date
Perp walking them through the park in handcuffs for everybody to see and it might sink in that this type of behavior won't be tolerated.
So, and this is just me issue with this statement, if it were only BGW where issues were happening I'd agree. Did you catch the story of what happened in NYC where three men jumped a female hostess at a restaurant because she was just asking for their proof of vaccination like she's supposed to? My family had someone pass away from complications, where the family member was rear ended, got out of his car to settle things, and the guy that rear ended ran him over (broke his leg, other complications lead to a heart attack killing him).
I think the shift in behavior is a larger issue with society today and unfortunately BGW is a place where it's rearing it's ugly head right now.
BGW has a lot of strings to pull here. Ticketing, pricing, security staffing, security positioning, security abilities, surveillance infrastructure, reporting systems, response speed and procedures, etc, etc.
Just throwing more security at the problem doesn't help when all of the security just bunches up in one place, stands in a circle, and talks to their security friends all night. We're seeing violence break out in coaster queues over and over again. Why isn't the park stationing security in coaster queues like MANY other parks do? We know that a ton of violence happens in the houses. Why aren't there security cameras to capture the behavior and to better facilitate IDing the perpetrators? Same thing with coaster stations and queues. Same thing with gift shops to catch some of the rampant shoplifting that BGW just seems to shrug off.
Seriously. Why is my home surveillance system far more robust than BGW's? Why is Wal-Mart's surveillance infrastructure far better than Busch Gardens Williamsburg's? Why do the cops have to rely on cell phone video shot by onlookers to have photos to use to attempt to identify assaulters? BGW is a closed bubble. Everyone enters and exits the same way with tickets—many of which are linked to a lot of personal information. BGW controls everything inside that bubble too. This shouldn't be that hard.
Just throwing more security at the problem doesn't help when all of the security just bunches up in one place, stands in a circle, and talks to their security friends all night. We're seeing violence break out in coaster queues over and over again. Why isn't the park stationing security in coaster queues like MANY other parks do? We know that a ton of violence happens in the houses. Why aren't there security cameras to capture the behavior and to better facilitate IDing the perpetrators? Same thing with coaster stations and queues. Same thing with gift shops to catch some of the rampant shoplifting that BGW just seems to shrug off.
Seriously. Why is my home surveillance system far more robust than BGW's? Why is Wal-Mart's surveillance infrastructure far better than Busch Gardens Williamsburg's? Why do the cops have to rely on cell phone video shot by onlookers to have photos to use to attempt to identify assaulters? BGW is a closed bubble. Everyone enters and exits the same way with tickets—many of which are linked to a lot of personal information. BGW controls everything inside that bubble too. This shouldn't be that hard.
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I worked at a concert venue and can assure you that I saw dozens if not hundreds of guest walked through crowds in cuffs and it didn't seem to phase other guest behavior in the least.
I would add possibly higher alcohol pricing along with a drink cap to the list of tools that may help.
Which is what exactly? look at the crime statistics violent crime and murder are sky rocketing lately. Does that mean BGW doesn't have a responsibility to act no but it's also a really good indicator that this isn't just a BGW issue and that there may not be a quick and easy solution here.
While I don't disagree with anything you're saying here, I don't think it's a bad thing to point out incidents like this are on the rise everywhere across the country. Especially as we become more ideologically divided from each other and unknown things can become a trigger.
Yes, BGW needs a better security infrastructure from a surveillance perspective. They need a better reporting system (you put together this great app and there's no "report issue to security" button?). They need a more visible staffing presence with the better positioning.
But at what point do those things become too much? It's a touch balance in the first place and BGW isn't even trying to find it.
While I do think it seems to be true that violence between guests is on the rise, violence at Howl-O-Scream isn't a new problem at BGW at all. We're just now starting to see what the scare actors have known and dealt with for ages now—guests at Halloween events tend to really fucking suck. BGW should have long since implemented a lot of this to protect their casts. Hell, they shoulda implemented a lot of this to deal with the shoplifting too.
So yeah, sure, maybe the violence between guests caught on camera is new and BGW will need some time to figure out solutions, but in the cases of the houses especially, this isn't new—we just never see it because there aren't bystanders filming.
So yeah, sure, maybe the violence between guests caught on camera is new and BGW will need some time to figure out solutions, but in the cases of the houses especially, this isn't new—we just never see it because there aren't bystanders filming.
The night of 9/11, I know from speaking personally to JCCPD officer that they only had 5 officers supporting that night for 17,000 in attendance. That’s not enough to supplement security.
In what way did I imply that there is a quick and easy solution? And where did I claim to somehow know the answer? How could anyone without access to all of the data possibly make such a claim?
I said they need to address the root causes of the problem. Investigating and analyzing what is actually leading to the surge of violence -- and whether there really is a measurable increase in violence -- is a wicked problem. Determining the best set of responses to address the issue is a complex process. I am not claiming any of this is easy. I am saying that the park is obligated to make the effort to do the real problem solving.
Honestly, throwing more cops at the situation is much closer the description, "quick and easy solution."
Most of these people fighting look too young be buying drinks at the park. They need more cops. Lots of them. Every roller coaster line at this point. Arrest the people fighting and ban them for life. Ban the entire party with them. This is absurd. No reason to allow this on a weekly basis.
We caught the tail end of the fight at Three Rivers on Saturday night, and unfortunately the 2 officers that came over didn't do anything. They and the staff members (regular and managers) were trying to get the 2 main people to talk to them to find out what happened and I think one was talking to them but the other person just kept walking back and forth yelling into her phone. At one point, one of the staff members said I don't know what we're supposed to do, and they probably don't. The one lady that was talking to the officer said, the worst part is, I lost my place in line for funnel cake. I laughed at that, because I've stood in that line for what seems like forever and saturday night it was long. The one manager asked my husband and I if we were ok or needed anything, I jokingly said the apple drink from the stand down by Trappers since they closed the line at 9:30. Then my husband told him we were just standing there because we started to walk down the path to head out, but figured it would be better if we stayed put until stuff settled because that was the direction the groups that were with the women that were fighting were going. When we were heading out, a group walked by us, going the opposite direction, looking pissed and focused and he just looked at me and said that can't be good. It was almost 10:30 at that point.
We noticed on Saturday, that people in general are just angrier. We were sitting in England waiting for the scare actors to come out and so many walked by complaining about various things, arguing with the peeps they were with, all of it...and they were just getting there.
We noticed on Saturday, that people in general are just angrier. We were sitting in England waiting for the scare actors to come out and so many walked by complaining about various things, arguing with the peeps they were with, all of it...and they were just getting there.
Was there last night. Saw 0 fights or any other issues. Barely thought about it. Just good ol' BG.
Couldn't help noticing that 2 of the 3 videos I've seen have been girls fighting. Maybe I'm just out of touch and it probably isn't "sudden" but certainly seems like a shift in behavior since, say 40 years ago. Girls are fighting in the military and every other TV show now, so shouldn't be surprised, equal rights and all. That said, both of those videos look more like push/slap fights. The one where someone ends up on the ground is guys (?). The last one is really weird, suddenly that guy jumps in punching and WAY escalates it. What he's thinking, no idea, could be his chance to punch girls, maybe he wants to show them real fighting, maybe just had enough.
Even the case where the woman was "attacked" surely there was something going on already. I don't see any evidence that people are going "I feel like fighting, let's head to BG". Still, theme parks have long been one of the safest ways to mix with other people, so as a trend it's concerning. Also maybe a symptom of something worse.
Best I can recall the cases of fights at KD Haunt were earlier in the event run, yet crowds are highest later. The earlier nights that are too warm always feel "off" to me. Doesn't change the underlying problem, but it helps when more people are happy and drawn into the event, away from their everyday issues (and not sweating). Also earlier on there are more people that shouldn't be there such as young kids, apparently also hooligans.
Couldn't help noticing that 2 of the 3 videos I've seen have been girls fighting. Maybe I'm just out of touch and it probably isn't "sudden" but certainly seems like a shift in behavior since, say 40 years ago. Girls are fighting in the military and every other TV show now, so shouldn't be surprised, equal rights and all. That said, both of those videos look more like push/slap fights. The one where someone ends up on the ground is guys (?). The last one is really weird, suddenly that guy jumps in punching and WAY escalates it. What he's thinking, no idea, could be his chance to punch girls, maybe he wants to show them real fighting, maybe just had enough.
Even the case where the woman was "attacked" surely there was something going on already. I don't see any evidence that people are going "I feel like fighting, let's head to BG". Still, theme parks have long been one of the safest ways to mix with other people, so as a trend it's concerning. Also maybe a symptom of something worse.
Best I can recall the cases of fights at KD Haunt were earlier in the event run, yet crowds are highest later. The earlier nights that are too warm always feel "off" to me. Doesn't change the underlying problem, but it helps when more people are happy and drawn into the event, away from their everyday issues (and not sweating). Also earlier on there are more people that shouldn't be there such as young kids, apparently also hooligans.
I've read this a few times now and can't for the life of me figure out why the gender of anyone is relevant, why you seem to be minimizing fighting when it happens between groups of women, why "attacked" is in quotes, or why you seem more inclined to believe that fights between women are more likely the result of "something going on already." Like, I really, honestly don't know what the thesis of this pair of paragraphs is, but I'm pretty sure that it isn't a good look at all.
ANYWAY, I don't think there's much debate over the idea that there's a widespread, systemic increase in public violence post-COVID (I'm not saying it is or is not true, I've not read enough on it, but people don't seem to disagree on that point). Hence, it seems to me like this discussion is most useful if it focuses on mitigation strategies the park can pursue. What the discussion MOST CERTAINLY shouldn't be about though are people's perceptions of the physical characteristics of the people involved in the small percentage of violent altercations that we happen to see on video.
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emoji react?
You didn't need to date yourself, your blatant sexism did that for you.
Guess can't even bring some things up. That they are more slap fights than punches or whatever is significant -- that last one I'd barely take seriously until the guy butted in. Also maybe that would be a reason for up to twice as many fights!
"attacked" in quotes was showing a reference to a previous post. But think the worst of me automatically.
"attacked" in quotes was showing a reference to a previous post. But think the worst of me automatically.
That's definitely what you should take away from this.
Regarding the "girls" you noted fighting in the military: are they 8 years old, or are they 9 years old?
