Adding EV Chargers

[warfelg]

You're looking at this as a single product when, actually, it's part of a package. If you pay $20 to park your car and that $20 more than covers the cost of electricity why should they pay more? Why get all hung up on someone getting more than you? For that matter, when I go to through the drive through at McDonald's my meal should be cheaper because I'm not using the tables and chairs that they put in the lobby -- why should I have to pay for someone else's ability to sit when I never use it?

So funny (ish) story about a former friend of mine (you'll fine out why in a second). He used to complain about "handouts" like this all the time. In college he got pissy with me one semester because the professor used to "sell" her students her books, which were basically a set of short form test essay questions. And her tests were open book. The deal in her class was that you buy the book for $1 at the start of the semester, and if you pass, you get $5 back when you turn the book back in. (It was actually a hard class and the book was more of an outline, if you wrote exactly what's in the book you would fail the class). He also once (and this is why former) complained about handicapped parking being in the front saying that just because someone is handicapped doesn't mean they should get closer parking.

So the funnyish part of this story. I thought for a while just this was a "bootstraps, everyone gets the same treatment" type person. Nope. Turns out this person was gaming the system however they could. He worked in a retirement home dinner area, and when he would be allowed to get his employee meal would often double up on what he was taking so he could have a "free" meal later. When Hersheypark was closing, he would go to all the venders on the way out asking if they were just throwing stuff away and could he have it.

Turned out (after I stopped being friends with him) that he would complain all the time when there were benefits to something that he couldn't take advantage of. Basically things like free EV parking would piss him off because he couldn't get it, but if he had an EV he would do something like buy a BGW pass and abuse the ability to park there so he could keep his car charged "for free".

Sadly, based on past comments from people and their stance here, I'm seeing some of the same thing. People who would game the system of the dining pass and going to the park for dinner and leaving. People who knew each spot to go to when to get things for free. People who complained when there 10 year old grandfathered rate was forced to match the 'fair share' of what everyone else is paying. It sounds like some complaining about this benefit being a potential good thing are more so upset that its a benefit they can't abuse than understanding how it's a good thing.

 

[Nibbins]

Kinda silly of some people to complain that someone might get free electricity while they are at the park that wouldn't benefit them, because they don't have an EV.

The park also provides free toilets that don't benefit the guests that don't have to go. Why do those other guys get a handout of free toilet paper and a flush?

They have rides specifically designed for kids that don't benefit me, because I am too tall. Why do I have to pay for them?


If one is so concerned that they miss out on free electricity they always could get an electric car I guess.

 

[Icer]

One disadvantage of electric cars for the park is guests might wait to eat if charging on the road. If spaces are limited, though, encourages getting there early.

I in no way can see how this is a disadvantage to offering charging. In fact, all the more incentive to offer the charging at the park. People don't have to wait to charge on the road and take up that charging time with something like eating when they can charge their car in the park and spend more time at the park. More time in the park, more likelihood they will eat there and drive home around closing time with a fully charged car rather than leave at 6 or 7 to go charge nearby and have dinner.

If you mean this is a disadvantage to electric cars simply existing then maybe I see your point? But at that rate, it is a disadvantage that free liberties exist, else they could force guests to eat at the park against their will, become an eternal prison upon entry. Turn the Festhaus into a people barn type beat.

 

[bill s]

If you mean this is a disadvantage to electric cars simply existing then maybe I see your point? But at that rate, it is a disadvantage that free liberties exist, else they could force guests to eat at the park against their will, become an eternal prison upon entry. Turn the Festhaus into a people barn type beat.

That's what I meant. But only as an unintended consequence. It would be offset by offering charging, but that gets the park back to where it was before (in itself).

Ummm... I'm not sure what the hell of the above post is supposed to be a logical argument

It was 4 different points, only 2 tied together and not necessarily an argument. More:

Flat fee. Not worth it to just top off.

Could charging be used to smooth the load to the grid during coaster launches? I don't know how far they go to condition the power surges already, but you could charge some cars matching them!

 

[Jonesta6]

I just talked with Subaru about the Solterra, and the one I liked is $49,000; but with incentives and the limited amount on my trade I would be only financing $34,000.

I know this isn't exactly related to BGW EV chargers, but I am thinking my next vehicle will be some kind of EV - I was curious how the Solterra is (assuming you may have at least had a test drive)?

I currently drive an Outback, and have had issues with the transmission and oil systems as apparently my model year was the first year of both the CVT and low friction oil system. Based on that experience I'm wary of purchasing a 1st gen offering from any manufacturer, though my understanding is unlike the Big 3 Subaru is using Toyota's EV systems.

 

[warfelg]

You're looking at this as a single product when, actually, it's part of a package. If you pay $20 to park your car and that $20 more than covers the cost of electricity why should they pay more? Why get all hung up on someone getting more than you? For that matter, when I go to through the drive through at McDonald's my meal should be cheaper because I'm not using the tables and chairs that they put in the lobby -- why should I have to pay for someone else's ability to sit when I never use it?

I know this isn't exactly related to BGW EV chargers, but I am thinking my next vehicle will be some kind of EV - I was curious how the Solterra is (assuming you may have at least had a test drive)?

I currently drive an Outback, and have had issues with the transmission and oil systems as apparently my model year was the first year of both the CVT and low friction oil system. Based on that experience I'm wary of purchasing a 1st gen offering from any manufacturer, though my understanding is unlike the Big 3 Subaru is using Toyota's EV systems.

No test drive.

 

[Celticdog]

Kinda silly of some people to complain that someone might get free electricity while they are at the park that wouldn't benefit them, because they don't have an EV.

The park also provides free toilets that don't benefit the guests that don't have to go. Why do those other guys get a handout of free toilet paper and a flush?

They have rides specifically designed for kids that don't benefit me, because I am too tall. Why do I have to pay for them?


If one is so concerned that they miss out on free electricity they always could get an electric car I guess.

But, the electricity is not free. That is the myth. Someone is paying for it. Sure in the beginning BG will cover the cost as it will look good from a PR/Environmental perspective. However as the program continues they will realize that it is becoming more expensive not only in electricity cost, but in the maintenance of the charging stations. Then parking rates will go up and we'll all be paying for that "free" electricity through higher parking rates and/or ticket prices.

The toilet reference is not a fair comparison as everyone has access to those, not just EV drivers.
The rides for kids reference is not a fair comparison to EV and it disingenuous to do so. You don't specifically pay for those rides, you pay for the park experience. Do you feel slighted if you don't experience all BG has to offer? Do you feel you should pay less for arriving at 2pm verses 10am?

Should BG allocate an area for EV charging? ... yes.
Should EV drivers pay for that service?... yes.

The only other way to make this completely fair is for BG to install fuel pumps to provide gasoline.

 

[Jonesta6]

No test drive.

I should have figured - when even Toyota is advertising to reserve a vehicle for purchase before going to a dealer...

Though tbh, having worked at a dealer before, I'm curious how flipped around that business is considering the massive changes in inventory availability and consumer spending in the last few years.

 

[Jonesta6]

But, the electricity is not free. That is the myth. Someone is paying for it. Sure in the beginning BG will cover the cost as it will look good from a PR/Environmental perspective. However as the program continues they will realize that it is becoming more expensive not only in electricity cost, but in the maintenance of the charging stations. Then parking rates will go up and we'll all be paying for that "free" electricity through higher parking rates and/or ticket prices.

The toilet reference is not a fair comparison as everyone has access to those, not just EV drivers.
The rides for kids reference is not a fair comparison to EV and it disingenuous to do so. You don't specifically pay for those rides, you pay for the park experience. Do you feel slighted if you don't experience all BG has to offer? Do you feel you should pay less for arriving at 2pm verses 10am?

Should BG allocate an area for EV charging? ... yes.
Should EV drivers pay for that service?... yes.

The only other way to make this completely fair is for BG to install fuel pumps to provide gasoline.

If they build solar charging stations, where we assume the overall output of the panels is more than the usage, then this cannot compare to gasoline in any other way than being a fuel source.

I don't see the park drilling for crude and running their own refinery to get a natural supply for their guests.

Also, how much maintenance would the park really have to do to such a charging setup over time? I assume some, but I'd also think it'd be minimal unless an extraneous event such as a hurricane caused damage... Which if that happened they've probably got bigger issues anyways.

Though this whole thing about solar has me thinking - would the park be able to benefit if they either added panels to the rooftops of park buildings and/or was able to convert some of their land (maybe near the boneyard) into a solar power farm similar to the one that's powering Facebook's (Meta) data center up 64 in Henrico County?

 

[Nibbins]

You don't specifically pay for those rides the electricity, you pay for the park experience.

fixed it

 

[mikes]

If they build solar charging stations, where we assume the overall output of the panels is more than the usage, then this cannot compare to gasoline in any other way than being a fuel source.

I don't see the park drilling for crude and running their own refinery to get a natural supply for their guests.

Also, how much maintenance would the park really have to do to such a charging setup over time? I assume some, but I'd also think it'd be minimal unless an extraneous event such as a hurricane caused damage... Which if that happened they've probably got bigger issues anyways.

Though this whole thing about solar has me thinking - would the park be able to benefit if they either added panels to the rooftops of park buildings and/or was able to convert some of their land (maybe near the boneyard) into a solar power farm similar to the one that's powering Facebook's (Meta) data center up 64 in Henrico County?

I'd rather see the park focus on being green. Solar for whatever they can power within the park. I'm done with free vs not, I can't argue that without it becoming political.

 

[Nicole]

I honestly just don’t understand begrudging someone else getting a perk I might not. When someone else gets a nice benefit or an unexpected freebie or whatever I am just happy for them. I don’t know why I’d feel resentment.

The park offers a wide variety of experiences and opportunities. I see EV charging as just one more of those. If you pay for parking, you would have access to a variety of included options. Just as I don’t take advantage of concerts and shows at the park, so too I wouldn’t take advantage of free EV charging.

Essentially, there is no harm to me and it makes someone else’s experience better. So what is the downside?

 

[halfabee]

I'm done with free vs not, I can't argue that without it becoming political.

Smart move to avoid the overtly political stuff. Not everyone has that wisdom.

Happily, it's quite easy to keep the "free vs. not" discussion within the realm of the mathematical and physical.

A grid-tied solar system could quite feasibly reduce the park's net electricity costs, even while charging EVs.

So if anything, the pressure on the park's pricing for you as a customer would go down. Not up.

That sounds good, right?

 

[Jonesta6]

So if anything, the pressure on the park's pricing for you as a customer would go down. Not up.

But if supply (park entry) is finite but demand is high, wouldn't that usually equate to prices remaining high even if they find ways to reduce operating costs?

 

[CoasterTalkBob]

But if supply (park entry) is finite but demand is high, wouldn't that usually equate to prices remaining high even if they find ways to reduce operating costs?

That's kind of unrelated to the point, I think. SEAS isn't the kind of park that's ever going to say "oh, hey, we're saving money so let's lower the cost"..... The point is that while people are thinking this is going to be some huge increase of cost to the park the reality is that the cost to the park could go down. In real life that offset of cost wouldn't reduce the entry fee but would hopefully be money that could be used to improve the guest experience in other ways.

It's more an argument of logistics than it is how SEAS would actually respond to it. Really this discussion is all about the logistics and is unrelated to what SEAS will or won't actually do.

 

[WDWRLD]

Ok, because I have such a small view of things, at least that’s what people here say and what I see in no way represents what is the reality of the huge number of EVs on the road I was passing by these two EV charging stations which are the only two I know of and see regularly…..and since everyone here talks about the demand and how hard it is to find a open charger the one at Walmart on Jefferson as of 2pm has all 10 chargers open, across the street at Patrick Henery Mall
there 9 of the 12 open. The SUV at the end taking up a EV spot isn’t a EV or at least wasn't plugged in if it was. I understand the struggle so I would hurry, these spots won’t last long in this high demand EV market because i’m sure it’s a huge draw for those getting groceries for the weekend or getting a pair of swim trunks to have the convince of charging while they shop.

 

[halfabee]

everyone here talks about the demand and how hard it is to find a open charger

Who here says that?

Non-whiny answers only, please.

 

[horsesboy]

Ok, because I have such a small view of things, at least that’s what people here say and what I see in no way represents what is the reality of the huge number of EVs on the road I was passing by these two EV charging stations which are the only two I know of and see regularly…..and since everyone here talks about the demand and how hard it is to find a open charger the one at Walmart on Jefferson as of 2pm has all 10 chargers open, across the street at Patrick Henery Mall
there 9 of the 12 open. The SUV at the end taking up a EV spot isn’t a EV or at least wasn't plugged in if it was. I understand the struggle so I would hurry, these spots won’t last long in this high demand EV market because i’m sure it’s a huge draw for those getting groceries for the weekend or getting a pair of swim trunks to have the convince of charging while they shop.

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I would add the WAWA right down the road from BGW has over a dozen I think the most I have ever seen in use at a time is 4 much more frequently the issue is that after losing those spots to chargers there are not enough places for regular cars to park

 

[panopticon31]

Ok, because I have such a small view of things, at least that’s what people here say and what I see in no way represents what is the reality of the huge number of EVs on the road I was passing by these two EV charging stations which are the only two I know of and see regularly…..and since everyone here talks about the demand and how hard it is to find a open charger the one at Walmart on Jefferson as of 2pm has all 10 chargers open, across the street at Patrick Henery Mall
there 9 of the 12 open. The SUV at the end taking up a EV spot isn’t a EV or at least wasn't plugged in if it was. I understand the struggle so I would hurry, these spots won’t last long in this high demand EV market because i’m sure it’s a huge draw for those getting groceries for the weekend or getting a pair of swim trunks to have the convince of charging while they shop.

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Again as has been said time and time again. The push for EVs and charging stations isnt about today 3/25/2022. EV growth and demand is happening whether you like it or not. If people want to be able to charge convienently and not have "range anxiety" we need to start building the infrastructure NOW before the demand hits a crunch. There are an estimated 100,000-150,000 gas stations in the US. Do you really think these sprang up overnight?

Why is this concept of building and preparing for more than 30 days in the future so hard to grasp?

 

[halfabee]

Also relevant:

Over 80% of EV owners have the ability to charge at home. So counting the cars charging on a weekday at the local mall in Newport News is a LOL-level complete waste of time for the purposes of this thread.

On the other hand, a great many people visiting BGW do not, somewhat incredibly, actually live at BGW. Nor anywhere near it. So having destination EV chargers right at the park could be a very convenient, attractive, and possibly cost-neutral (possibly even better than cost-neutral) idea.

Anything to complain, though.