"Weather" Closures

[Mushroom]

Logic says its to pump up their bottom line AT THE EXPENSE OF THE EMPLOYEES. That's the most disgusting thing a corporation can do.

Can you explain how you think it’s at the expense of the employees? Because I and others have explained to you countless times how this is baseless and employees are always welcome to come in for additional shifts to make up for closures.

Follow up question, why do you seem to enjoy posting the same tired arguments over and over again even when those arguments have been shown to be baseless?

 

[Thriller]

Can you explain how you think it’s at the expense of the employees? Because I and others have explained to you countless times how this is baseless and employees are always welcome to come in for additional shifts to make up for closures.

Follow up question, why do you seem to enjoy posting the same tired arguments over and over again even when those arguments have been shown to be baseless?

I post the same arguments because some people have no compehension or logical skills.

For example, Miss Nicole states that you cannot come to a conclusion without hard data despite the visible facts (which i have listed (low attendance, off and on rain, employees do not get paid for cut hours, parks are currently in full cost cutting mode). Yet she does not provide one other theory to dispute my conclusion based on these facts. So i repeat them. When someone provides a legitimate reason for early closing under these circumstances other than pure cost cutting, i will consider that reason as well.

Employees are scheduled work hour, which they get paid for. The company cuts their hours with no notice, and cuts their wages with no notice. The cost savings is at the expense of the employees, losing their wages. Management is on salary. They don't lose a dime of wages when this happens. In fact, they do it to get or pad their bonus.

I understand the locals don't care about these ghost weather closures. They go when the weather is good, or haven't traveled far. They are oblivious about the employee wage cuts. They get their cheap season passes and meal plans and that's all they have invested in attending other than a few gallons of gas.

 

[Coasternerd]

Employees are scheduled work hour, which they get paid for. The company cuts their hours with no notice, and cuts their wages with no notice. The cost savings is at the expense of the employees, losing their wages. Management is on salary. They don't lose a dime of wages when this happens. In fact, they do it to get or pad their bonus.

*sigh*
I said it earlier and I’ll say it again. A large majority of positions at theme parks are part time positions. Full time positions will be above your regular supervisors. Those supervisors are going to be the fulltime people, and likely in charge of all of their department, and not just a couple of locations within the department. “Regular” supervisors are going to be in charge of an area (like Area 1, 2, etc), whereas Full-time supervisors are going to be in charge of areas 1 AND 2, for example.

Employees that work at a theme park, ESPECIALLY in a part time position, are NOT guaranteed 40 hours, and those hours are subject to change with little notice. This is known upon being hired.

 

[Zachary]

(low attendance, off and on rain, employees do not get paid for cut hours, parks are currently in full cost cutting mode)

There are a myriad of other factors that you are not privy to and your picture of the items you listed is limited to only your own anecdotal experience. You can not claim fact. You can believe you know why all of these parks are always closing, but you cannot know.

I'm perfectly comfortable admitting that I can't know. I don't know why you're not.

 

[netdvn]

Theme parks exist to make money. If a park is completely empty, its not making a profit.

Parks aren't making a profit when they close, so this isn't a decision they'd take lightly.

On top of that, you have to think about the staff that have to stand in that rain. Yeah they're getting paid, but I wouldn't wanna get paid a little over minimum wage in the rain, nor do I think its a good idea to force your staff to travel to and from the park in shitty weather.

Sometimes parks do make the wrong call and close despite the weather clearing up, but if the park is already open and they don't think the park will get that busy after, they're still losing money. Sometimes the weather stays nice and that's a bad call on the park. I believe the park definitely should be vocal about that on social media. Most of the time, parks will allow you to use tickets on a future date, so that benefits most people visiting the park anyway.

Weather changes all the time. Its tough to make a call like closing your business down so you're not making any money. I don't think parks want to go out of their way to upset their guests. If they make a bad call, its a bad call. I wouldn't be too hard on the park because weather changes.

Disney and Uni are pretty much the only parks that don't do weather closures like regional parks do, but they're destination parks that people pay tons of money to visit, so people are gonna visit regardless of weather. And those parks also have plenty of indoor rides/attractions to ride when it rains.

 

[Nicole]

I post the same arguments because some people have no compehension or logical skills.

For example, Miss Nicole states that you cannot come to a conclusion without hard data despite the visible facts (which i have listed (low attendance, off and on rain, employees do not get paid for cut hours, parks are currently in full cost cutting mode). Yet she does not provide one other theory to dispute my conclusion based on these facts. So i repeat them. When someone provides a legitimate reason for early closing under these circumstances other than pure cost cutting, i will consider that reason as well.

Employees are scheduled work hour, which they get paid for. The company cuts their hours with no notice, and cuts their wages with no notice. The cost savings is at the expense of the employees, losing their wages. Management is on salary. They don't lose a dime of wages when this happens. In fact, they do it to get or pad their bonus.

I understand the locals don't care about these ghost weather closures. They go when the weather is good, or haven't traveled far. They are oblivious about the employee wage cuts. They get their cheap season passes and meal plans and that's all they have invested in attending other than a few gallons of gas.

Once again, it is not logical to extrapolate a consistent pattern of behavior from a few individual experiences. You do not know what happens every day that you are not at KD, and given how far you purport to live from Doswell, it is reasonable to assume that you do not visit with enough regularity to draw any conclusions. Moreover, you do not have any way of knowing what factors go into the decisions being made by park leadership.

You are welcome to continue to post the same rants over and over, but your unsupported claims are nothing more than your opinions.

Similarly, you have no idea how far any of us travel to visit any park, nor have many of us shared how we feel about early park closures. So, you do not have a basis for making assumptions about our views.

 

[Mushroom]

I post the same arguments because some people have no compehension or logical skills.

It’s funny that you accuse others of having “no compehension [sic] or logical skills” when you have repeatedly demonstrated an unwillingness or inability to comprehend and respond to rebuttals to your arguments. I guess that irony is lost on you.

For example, take this argument from your last post:

Employees are scheduled work hour, which they get paid for. The company cuts their hours with no notice, and cuts their wages with no notice. The cost savings is at the expense of the employees, losing their wages. Management is on salary. They don't lose a dime of wages when this happens. In fact, they do it to get or pad their bonus.

I have responded to this exact same argument of yours at least twice, and I know others have too. For example, I responded to it here:

I worked for a major theme park through high school and part of college for about 5 years. The park would sometimes close for weather (or, as you say, low attendance). Anecdotally, no one I worked with, across multiple departments, ever seemed to mind.

Frankly, because of staffing issues, the hours were usually so long — I typically logged about 60 hours a week during summers, and so did most everyone I worked with — that people usually jumped at any chance to go home early or take a day off that they could get. In my experience, weather closures were almost universally received as a gift of a day off or a free chance to go home early. And even if a whole day got knocked out, most employees were still probably hitting 40+ hours for the week. (And if you really wanted those extra hours, trust me, the park would gladly let you come in on one of your scheduled days off to make up for it.)

I’m sure there are employees out there who feel differently, but I can’t recall a single employee who was vocally upset about weather closures during my entire 5 years at that park — quite the opposite. So, I don’t really buy your argument that early closures constitutes poor treatment of employees.

And in another instance, I responded to your same argument here:

Not true. When I worked in the industry just a few years ago, employees always had the option of adding hours, even if the park closed for the day or closed early. You could come in 7 days a week if you wanted to. If the park closed early on a day you were scheduled to work, you were always welcome to pick up extra shifts or come in early. Always. I know for a fact this is true for CF.

Your point about the cost of living since COVID is also, shockingly, wrong. KD’s 2019 starting wage was $9.25. Its 2023 starting wage was $15. That’s a 62% increase. By contrast, the cost of living has increased by approximately 18% since before the pandemic. So no, the cost of living has not come close to offsetting CF’s wage increases. Source 1 Source 2 Source 3

“Cedar Fair has increased their prices as well. It’s obscene how much anything at the park cost now.” Maybe because they have to pay for the over 60% increase in labor costs, which you say still isn’t enough? You think they should hugely increase their operating expenses while leaving prices stagnant?

In every instance, you ignored these counter-arguments entirely — even though they seem to be squarely negate your claims — only for you to go on and make the same tired, and unchanged, argument again.

It leads me to wonder if your statement of a lack of “compehension or logical skills” is less of an attack, and more of a projection.

 

[Thriller]

Once again, it is not logical to extrapolate a consistent pattern of behavior from a few individual experiences. You do not know what happens every day that you are not at KD, and given how far you purport to live from Doswell, it is reasonable to assume that you do not visit with enough regularity to draw any conclusions. Moreover, you do not have any way of knowing what factors go into the decisions being made by park leadership.

You are welcome to continue to post the same rants over and over, but your unsupported claims are nothing more than your opinions.

Similarly, you have no idea how far any of us travel to visit any park, nor have many of us shared how we feel about early park closures. So, you do not have a basis for making assumptions about our views.

Once again. You failed to provide any other reason why these parks would close under the circumstances. Lots of words, but no substance.

It’s very easy to dispute someone else’s opinion on a situation. But it’s hard to actually come up with valid reasons that disprove the theory. I don’t know why you waste so much time writing so much verbiage when you say absolutely nothing.

Defending the companies right to make a profit is not a valid argument for this discussion. Our company supposed to make a profit no matter what?

Are they supposed to short change employees and customers just to make a short term profit? Eventually, those kind of practices turns against the business, and they lose profits, long-term.

These chains are not increasing in revenue, despite their increasing prices. They are only maintaining their bottom lines by cost cutting. And it’s backfiring. They are losing attendance.

Additionally, for an industry that is complained about not being able to get employees they don’t treat their employees well. Even part-time employees want to have guaranteed hours so they can budget for their expenses.

It’s hilarious the people that will justify anything a theme park does just because they like to go there. .

There’s a reason these companies stock is losing value currently even though the entire stock market is raging at record rates right now

It’s funny that you accuse others of having “no compehension [sic] or logical skills” when you have repeatedly demonstrated an unwillingness or inability to comprehend and respond to rebuttals to your arguments. I guess that irony is lost on you.

For example, take this argument from your last post:

I have responded to this exact same argument of yours at least twice, and I know others have too. For example, I responded to it here:

And in another instance, I responded to your same argument here:

In every instance, you ignored these counter-arguments entirely — even though they seem to be squarely negate your claims — only for you to go on and make the same tired, and unchanged, argument again.

It leads me to wonder if your statement of a lack of “compehension or logical skills” is less of an attack, and more of a projection.

every time I have been exposed to one of these early closures, I make a point to talk to a few employees and ask them if their hours have been cut when this happens. They all have always frowned and noddrd their head yes.

So maybe years ago people were able to get extra hours, but it doesn’t appear to be current practice.

Additionally, you cannot provide one other reason why these parks would be closing early under the listed circumstances other than to cut cost

 

[Mushroom]

every time I have been exposed to one of these early closures, I make a point to talk to a few employees and ask them if their hours have been cut when this happens. They all have always frowned and noddrd their head yes.

Yeah, I totally believe you. Lol.

 

[bill s]

It’s hilarious the people that will justify anything a theme park does just because they like to go there.

No absolutely not. I delivered some pretty nasty feedback to SFA after my last visit. I have mentioned a couple times a closing seems incorrect. Seen more where I understand. Yes it is a risk to push the weather limits on a longer trip, but you truly must have bad luck.

I think return tickets determine the threshold, and it's not high. If enough people bought day tickets, a park will sit there with rides closed for weather for hours and not close. That's the other half of the argument something's going on.

I have many times gone to KD and noticed that there were as many cars in the employee lot as in the guest lot. Obviously this is not making money, except as part of a business model where variation is inherent and dramatic, and they still don't close on account of a little rain unless it's even worse. How many employees per guest should they go? I've had an embarrassment of riches from light crowds at VA parks over the years as it is.

 

[horsesboy]

Once again. You failed to provide any other reason why these parks would close under the circumstances. Lots of words, but no substance.

It’s very easy to dispute someone else’s opinion on a situation. But it’s hard to actually come up with valid reasons that disprove the theory. I don’t know why you waste so much time writing so much verbiage when you say absolutely nothing.

Defending the companies right to make a profit is not a valid argument for this discussion. Our company supposed to make a profit no matter what?

Are they supposed to short change employees and customers just to make a short term profit? Eventually, those kind of practices turns against the business, and they lose profits, long-term.

These chains are not increasing in revenue, despite their increasing prices. They are only maintaining their bottom lines by cost cutting. And it’s backfiring. They are losing attendance.

Additionally, for an industry that is complained about not being able to get employees they don’t treat their employees well. Even part-time employees want to have guaranteed hours so they can budget for their expenses.

It’s hilarious the people that will justify anything a theme park does just because they like to go there. .

There’s a reason these companies stock is losing value currently even though the entire stock market is raging at record rates right now


every time I have been exposed to one of these early closures, I make a point to talk to a few employees and ask them if their hours have been cut when this happens. They all have always frowned and noddrd their head yes.

So maybe years ago people were able to get extra hours, but it doesn’t appear to be current practice.

Additionally, you cannot provide one other reason why these parks would be closing early under the listed circumstances other than to cut cost

Funny because while I have never asked an employee about hour cuts for weather 9 times out of 10 the basic body language responds I get to a thank you for coming out and opening seems to that nice of you now go and run along so we can close and get out of this weather.

 

[OriginB]

Theme parks exist to make money. If a park is completely empty, its not making a profit.

Parks aren't making a profit when they close, so this isn't a decision they'd take lightly.

On top of that, you have to think about the staff that have to stand in that rain. Yeah they're getting paid, but I wouldn't wanna get paid a little over minimum wage in the rain, nor do I think its a good idea to force your staff to travel to and from the park in shitty weather.

Sometimes parks do make the wrong call and close despite the weather clearing up, but if the park is already open and they don't think the park will get that busy after, they're still losing money. Sometimes the weather stays nice and that's a bad call on the park. I believe the park definitely should be vocal about that on social media. Most of the time, parks will allow you to use tickets on a future date, so that benefits most people visiting the park anyway.

Weather changes all the time. Its tough to make a call like closing your business down so you're not making any money. I don't think parks want to go out of their way to upset their guests. If they make a bad call, its a bad call. I wouldn't be too hard on the park because weather changes.

Disney and Uni are pretty much the only parks that don't do weather closures like regional parks do, but they're destination parks that people pay tons of money to visit, so people are gonna visit regardless of weather. And those parks also have plenty of indoor rides/attractions to ride when it rains.

I would be disappointed or frustrated if I planned their trip in advance and the park closed unexpectedly. I might have travelled a long way, booked hotels, or taken time off work.

 

[bwick29]

This dumpster fire of an argument is exactly the reason why I plan 2 days for every larger park and add in flexible zero days for trips with multiple regional stops. Weather is like an old ex-gf of mine... unpredictable and can change it's mind before the hour is up. You have to plan for it, accept it, and hope for a little luck. Does it suck when things don't play out? Yep. Can you blame a park for closing when guest and employee safety is at risk? Nope.

Time for some shoddy napkin math... With most parks having 150+ operating days, and using the "Carowinds closed early 10 times last year" example provided earlier in the thread, we're talking about 6.5% of operating days. If we assume that those days were open for roughly half the posted hours, that drops to 3%-ish. 1 in 33 odds that a given hour of the park will be impacted by an early-closure. This really feels like we're making a mountain out of a molehill because someone is still salty their trip was impacted last year.

Amusement parks, as businesses, need to be able to operate at a profit or they'll cease to exist and then we can all find a new hobby to piss and moan about.


Side note: I do wish parkgoers had a better attitude toward non-storm rain as it would allow parks to remain operating in periods of reasonably-inclement weather. TBH, one of the best hikes I've ever had was in the rain. I've waterboarded myself with a COVID mask in the rain on Apollo's Chariot. I've had 1 or 2 (or let's be honest, 3) too many beers in the back of Grogan's, The Parched Pig, Last Chance Saloon (CP), and then got lucky the weather has cleared or said screw it and got soaked. I've spent too much on coin dozers that turn $20 into a tootsie roll's worth of tickets. I've abused the brakes off BGW's 90m all-day-dining on rainy days. Work on the Boo Blasters personal-best. See how many rides your body can handle on FoF before it falls apart. Grab a tasting card for food&wine/whatever. These scenarios often end up with the day being a blast if you keep a positive mindset and if you do an activity enough, the rain can often become a fun way to change it up a bit. Pro tip: Patagonia has good rain gear.

 

[netdvn]

I would be disappointed or frustrated if I planned their trip in advance and the park closed unexpectedly. I might have travelled a long way, booked hotels, or taken time off work.

That happened to me in 2021. I was supposed to go to Cedar Point for my first time. Had plane tickets, hotel, transport and everything booked. Then two weeks before the trip, CP made the decision to not operate on weekdays in June. The trip had to basically be replanned from the start.

Yeah it sucks when parks close, but parks can't control bad weather. What if a staff member gets hurt trying to get to or from the park? What if a guest gets hurt at the park during bad weather? What if the park opens and the weather happens to get worse while people are in the park? Accidents end up costing the park more in lawsuits and bad press.

 

[OriginB]

That happened to me in 2021. I was supposed to go to Cedar Point for my first time. Had plane tickets, hotel, transport and everything booked. Then two weeks before the trip, CP made the decision to not operate on weekdays in June. The trip had to basically be replanned from the start.

Yeah it sucks when parks close, but parks can't control bad weather. What if a staff member gets hurt trying to get to or from the park? What if a guest gets hurt at the park during bad weather? What if the park opens and the weather happens to get worse while people are in the park? Accidents end up costing the park more in lawsuits and bad press.

I'm not saying safety isn't first. I completely agree with that. I am just saying what my reaction would be.

 

[Nicole]

I have an interesting data point about KD and weather closures. Obviously, this is just one instance and should not be generalized.

We were in the park this evening. There were very few other guests and storm clouds were clearly moving in. While we were there, we twice heard an announcement over the loudspeakers telling people to ride out any rain in restaurants and shops, and that the park would open back up after the weather cleared. Later, sitting in the car during a torrential downpour, I watched Dominator continue to run.

So, apparently, KD doesn’t always close when it rains and they have light crowds.

 

[Thriller]

I have an interesting data point about KD and weather closures. Obviously, this is just one instance and should not be generalized.

We were in the park this evening. There were very few other guests and storm clouds were clearly moving in. While we were there, we twice heard an announcement over the loudspeakers telling people to ride out any rain in restaurants and shops, and that the park would open back up after the weather cleared. Later, sitting in the car during a torrential downpour, I watched Dominator continue to run.

So, apparently, KD doesn’t always close when it rains and they have light crowds.

And I’m glad you did not travel 500 miles to get there to experience that as I have had quite the opposite experience after traveling 500 miles to get there in the past.


I have not noticed as many of these ghost weather closures this year at Kings Dominion or Carowinds on their Facebook pages. However, it has been a dry summer.

It could be that they’ve realized that these ghost weather closures in the past I’ve actually heard their attendance because it encourages people not to come if there’s any rain in the forecast. Perhaps they have corrected their way.

 

[bill s]

I have an interesting data point about KD and weather closures. Obviously, this is just one instance and should not be generalized.

We were in the park this evening. There were very few other guests and storm clouds were clearly moving in. While we were there, we twice heard an announcement over the loudspeakers telling people to ride out any rain in restaurants and shops, and that the park would open back up after the weather cleared. Later, sitting in the car during a torrential downpour, I watched Dominator continue to run.

So, apparently, KD doesn’t always close when it rains and they have light crowds.

Park closing time is 10, this report is at 7. Best I can figure from queue-times last night and now, KD site and FB, everything was closed after 6:46 even the carousel etc., but park didn't close, just nothing to do. More support for my free tickets theory, even a rainy day with 100% humidity was attractive to enough people after the muggy heat that they couldn't technically close early.

 

[guy305]

I was there around noon and figured it was gonna be an early closure day. They were sending out empty trains on Dominator. Good on them for staying open! They might’ve sent some employees home because both Chicken Shack and Jungle Market Eatery were empty with the lights off.

 

[Coasternerd]

I can’t tell you the last time I’ve seen all 4 eateries in Jungle X open at the same time. (Outpost, Jungle Market, Excavators, and Chicken Shack) 9/10 it’s usually Outpost and Chicken Shack, and if you’re lucky Excavators will be open.

They might’ve sent some employees home because both Chicken Shack and Jungle Market Eatery were empty with the lights off.