Verbolten (Project Announcement Fall 2011 Through Opening Discussion August 2012)

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RE: Verbolten

Bring Back Questor 87 said:
shb5007 said:
Bring Back Questor 87 said:
shb5007 said:
IMO the park has made some poor choices in the recent years (DarKastle...Kinda, Griffon, and EITA).

I don't think Mach Tower was a poor choice...and I don't think Verbolten will be either.
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How was Griffon a poor choice??
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1.) It was a 90% clone of SheiKra which I think is an overall better coaster.

2.) It was not innovative in any way.

3.) It was billed to be the 'best new thing' at BGW, yet Apollo's Chariot is still superior.

In my opinion that 15+ million dollars could have been spent on a MUCH more innovative, exciting, and overall better coaster.
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I would have to disagree on it being a poor choice, simply because it improved on an already excellent ride (Sheikra), was actually the 1st coaster in the world with 10-across seating (innovative), is the only dive Coaster in VA, and your comparison of AC to Griffon is very subjective I'm afraid, seeing as the two coasters are quite different in type, and Griffon came nearly 8 years after AC, which does make it the best "new" thing they received at the time, seeing as nothing else was built between 1999-2007.

Verbolten, I agree with you, will not be a poor choice, but Griffon may not necessarily need to be lumped into the underwhelming arena of Europe in the Awful.
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I am not saying it was a mistake or a huge let-down, I just think it was a poor choice. I would have much rather seen something like Bizarro, or even Cheetah Hunt. I also don't really think it was innovative at all, especially because SheiKra went floor-less at the same time (I think only 8 wide though). I also wouldn't say that SheiKra nor Griffon are 'excellent' coasters, they are pretty solid...probably only top 15-20 steel in the US. Again, when you are investing over 15 million dollars I would aim for 'excellent', not average.

ADDED: I also wouldn't say Griffon is that big (if any) of an improvement over SheiKra. I know a lot of people who prefer the Immelmann on SheiKra and also like the drop into the 'cave'.
 
RE: Verbolten

All of this considered, fingers crossed that this is a hit for a sizable majority of the public, including the insatiable thrill seekers that are BGWfans forum members.:D

Of course, the biggest mystery to be uncovered about Verbolten is the positioning of the on-ride photo....:shocked:
 
RE: Verbolten

I don't recall ever putting down Verbolten. I think/hope that it will be a great ride, but I can also see it from the other point of view as well. Ever since the addition of Griffon, things have been flying down hill. Here's their track record:

Griffon (2007): Repetitive and under-themed. Still a good coaster.
Forest of Fun (2009): Not European themed in the least. Ok children's area.
Europe in the Air (2010): This needs no explanation. Most awful thing ever.
Mach Tower (2011): Months late. Not a very good drop tower, but an ok addition.
Verbolten (2012): ...

It's not all that great. My main concern with the ride is that Zierer may be biting off a whole lot more than they can chew- the situation seems very Mach Tower-like. The park can't swallow their pride and just work with Intamin so instead they go with two basically unknown companies who are just coping things that Intamin specializes in.

Also, the park can, and has, impressed me. Illuminights was a great addition in 2010 as was Christmas Town in 2009- I just haven't been impressed by anything that has come out of the rides department since DarKastle (the original version, not the current one).
 
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RE: Verbolten

The park is not looking to please the enthusists. As far as the general public is concerned all of the recent additions (besides EITA) are great. Most guests are not going to let the theming or amount of firsts affect what they think of the ride. IMO Mach tower is pretty good and Griffon is my favorite. More often than not you will find a longer line for Griffon than any other coaster...
 
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RE: Verbolten

Guys. Let's all chill out first off...

Secondly, we aren't going to see a full POV of this ride. We didn't see one for DarKastle either. They aren't going to give away the secret and they aren't going to spend the money to successfully render the inside of the ride. Besides, we know the drop is the same and that it just kind of, enters the building. Conversation over.

How about we all realize that this ride is about the same thrill level of BBW, it will probably be awesome, and we have no idea if Zierer has biten off more than it can chew because we don't know what's been going on behind the scenes. Busch has NEVER debuted a "bad" coaster or one significantly behind schedule. B&M had never built a hyper, Arrow built the world's tallest and fastest coaster with interlocking loops, and Arrow also built the first successful suspender coaster all around the time these companies were trying to prove themselves. Busch does coasters right. Give them some credit.

You all suck right now. How about some frickin perspective, positivity, and acknowledgement that the ride will be fun regardless...and isn't fun what it's all about anyways?
 
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RE: Verbolten

That sounds like a great idea, Carter! Why don't we just forget about Mach Tower's terrible delays, Europe in the Air's terrible crappiness, and Griffon's terrible theming? Let's all jump into that alternative universe where the park hasn't made any major mistakes recently. The repeated blunders the park has made over the last few years are undeniable. I'm not judging the ride, I'm calling into question the choices that the park has been making over the last few years. The best way to predict the future is by looking into the past- the park's recent history doesn't give me much faith.
 
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RE: Verbolten

Sky, I think a big reason for most of the complaints regarding the park is because these are coming from older people who grew up with the park and hate to see the things that they came to know and love be destroyed, modified, or replaced. We are all going to find something wrong with everything because of what we have experienced in the past.

It doesn't just exist with BGW. There are old fans of certain long-running TV shows that will constantly complain about newer episodes, new writers, new actors, etc. There are old fans of certain bands that will complain about new albums, new members, etc. The list goes on. It's part of being in a fandom.

Decades from now, our generation will be gone. The park will be completely different. And there will be people complaining about rides and shows that replaced the rides and shows that replaced ours.
 
RE: Verbolten

CarterGee said:
Guys. Let's all chill out first off...

Secondly, we aren't going to see a full POV of this ride. We didn't see one for DarKastle either. They aren't going to give away the secret and they aren't going to spend the money to successfully render the inside of the ride. Besides, we know the drop is the same and that it just kind of, enters the building. Conversation over.

How about we all realize that this ride is about the same thrill level of BBW, it will probably be awesome, and we have no idea if Zierer has biten off more than it can chew because we don't know what's been going on behind the scenes. Busch has NEVER debuted a "bad" coaster or one significantly behind schedule. B&M had never built a hyper, Arrow built the world's tallest and fastest coaster with interlocking loops, and Arrow also built the first successful suspender coaster all around the time these companies were trying to prove themselves. Busch does coasters right. Give them some credit.

You all suck right now. How about some frickin perspective, positivity, and acknowledgement that the ride will be fun regardless...and isn't fun what it's all about anyways?
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No need to put Carter's great post down like that (you know who you are). IMO, carter, your post makes perfect sense. I couldn't have said it any better myself!

There's no point in joining these forums if all you're going to do is put each other down. This website was intended for fun, but you guys don't seem to know that. BGW IS doing the best they can, and there's no use complaining about it if you don't like that.

Let's not turn this site into the bottom of your screen on Youtube with all those...um, "nasty" comments.

Everyone, including the peeps at BGW, has different opinions, guys, so please accept that.
 
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RE: Verbolten

Wow, the first piece of track hasn't even been laid yet, the foundation hasn't finished curing, you can still see the outline of the exit stairs for BBW, and this is already horrible ride?

While I agree that some of the additions in the past haven't meshed with the European theme (FoF) and some rides have definitely lacked theming period *cough* Griffon *cough* it would appear that the park is making an effort to bring back some theme elements. Remember, the Oktoberfest redecoration was said to take 2 years, there is still time. While I might not be a big fan of some of the new decorations for Oktoberfest, I have to admit that they are very colorful, festive and show a desire from the park to freshen up an area that hasn't changed much overall in 35 years. Also, take a look at all the awesome track pics and concept art that Chris and Swiftman posted back in May, pay close attention to the concept art for Gunter & Gerta's offices, and the station interior and exterior, if that isn't intense theming I don't know what is.

Busch Gardens is a FAMILY theme park not a park specifically for coaster enthusiasts. As much as we might not like FoF, Grover's coaster is a favorite of my kids. I was almost a teenager before I really got into coasters. My dad drug me on BBW before I was ready and it turned me off for a long time. My daughter is almost 7 and wants to ride the bigger coasters, but she is nervous about the loops of LNM. Verbolten will be a nice step up coaster, just like BBW was. Just like a lot of people here I love coasters, but we are not going to live forever. A new generation of coaster enthusiasts can't come about if all the coasters have Immelman's, loops, and travel 90 mph. You don't develop a love for something like this by being thrown into the most intense ride there is, it has to be cultivated.

Nostalgia is a four letter word (yes, I know there are really 9 letters). I grew up with "The Old Country" but it was just a brand. Like any product, it has to be redesigned from time to time. The memories are always sweeter than real life, and if the park ever decides to go that route again it still won't feel the same. Lets wait for the last rider of the first train to get off before we start putting it down.

So as a group lets take a step back *deep breath* let it out...
 
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RE: Verbolten

shb5007 said:
IMO the park has made some poor choices in the recent years (DarKastle...Kinda, Griffon, and EITA).
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Griffon a poor choice?!?!?!?

LMFAO

Considering in 2007 the park had a 12.5% increase in attendance due to addition of Griffon. BGW even beat out year-round parks like SFMM and was the most visited seasonal park in the USA that year. The only seasonal park in North America that topped BGW in attendance was Canada's Wonderland, which they do annually as they have no competition there.

The ride is still a huge hit with the general public and enthusiasts. So your statement of it being a poor choice seems like a personal preference for not liking the ride.
 
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RE: Verbolten

J0E1 said:
BGW IS doing the best they can, and there's no use complaining about it if you don't like that.
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A) Griffon wasn't the park's best. Europe in the Air wasn't the park's best. They can do better- much better.

B) I don't like it and there's plenty of use complaining about it. We're not the park's number one priority, but people read what we have to say.

J0E1 said:
Let's not turn this site into the bottom of your screen on Youtube with all those...um, "nasty" comments.
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Hey, we're still forming complete sentences and paragraphs- something your average YouTube commenter could never achieve. ;)

Unagi said:
The ride is still a huge hit with the general public and enthusiasts. So your statement of it being a poor choice seems like a personal preference for not liking the ride.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but my hatred for the ride comes from the complete lack of theming- not the ride itself.
 
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RE: Verbolten

And there's only one other Dive Machine in the world with ten across seating.

I don't understand why Griffon is singled out as the sole ride with a lack of themeing... Apollo's has little going for itself, Drachen Fire had absolutely nothing in terms of themeing and the same with the old wild mouse that is now down in BGT. You have to acknowledge those ones, too!
 
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RE: Verbolten

I think that wether it's by learning by the mistake with Griffon or apealing to families, bolt is going to be a vast improvement as far as theming goes. Based on what we know about the layout, I think it's going to be fun as well.

To be honest, my biggest concern comes from the manufacturer of the ride. Another concern is that BG might be pushing the car aspect more than the haunted forest aspect, which I think is where some of your concerns are coming from.

Then again, this is not BBW, and that fact alone will turn people off.
 
RE: Verbolten

I can't believe there is this much criticism of Busch Gardens on a site called bgwFANS. I'm pretty sure if the intentions were for this site to criticize Busch, it would be called "BGWsucks" or "BGWcriticism" or something else clever. The park already hates us for this site due to the leaks pictures that are all over the internet, especially if you Google search Verbolten under images (referring to the layout pictures).

Let's face it though people, we all have our opinions. Obviously we have two defined sides on this forum now though: One that thinks that Verbolten is going to be horrible (even though they still have 7 months of construction left and haven't release all too much about it), and those who think (like the GP) that Verbolten will be a good addition.

I personally think that Verbolten is most likely going to be a good coaster, but I will respect the people with opposing positions also. Doesn't seem like there is a lot of that going on here.
 
RE: Verbolten

So people are wigging out about it having ONLY two launches? That speaks volumes to me as far as your thought process goes. While it may only have two launch segments it STILL as the Rhine drop? It seems that that has been forgotten. That to me is worlds better than even considering a third launch.
 
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RE: Verbolten

I'm not shocked by this criticism at all. It's what one can expect on any site like this. No one will ever be completely satisfied. Ever. I'm not sure what I think about this ride yet, but I've learned not to judge rides until I've ridden them. There have been plenty of roller coasters I thought would be crap, but loved them after I rode them, and there I some that I really looked forward to, such as Griffon, and then was disappointed. Busch Gardens hasn't had the best track record since 2005 as far as new rides go, but we know what they are capable of delivering. And what's with all the theming controversy over Griffon and Apollo? Sure, they both lack theming, but 1) Apollo has a story like every other roller coaster at BGW had, and Griffon does not, and 2) Apollo is a good enough ride to make up for it. Griffon needs the theming to compensate in my opinion. But anyway, I'm carrying on about things that don't matter.

And by the way, someone said that B&M had never built a hyper before Apollo, but they had already designed Raging Bull, which is considered to be their first hyper coaster.
 
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