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I really think this dog thing is being blown way out of proportion.

First of all, the dog is a dachshund, her name is Lucy and she was adopted by the park herself, as she performs in More Pet Shenanigans during the main season. As you all know, that's a show where the park promotes adoption. From what I have heard she has developed a great connection with the cast, also. I think to say that her part in the show promotes giving pets as gifts which in turn means they will be given up to animal shelters is pretty absurd, and looking way too far into things, especially further than what I assume all of the GP will. I never thought any more of that part of the show than to let it end on a sweet, memorable note.

The premise that there's a potential PETA will notice or complain about it is not very believable, in my opinion. The attack on SEAS by PETA is strictly on the Seaworld branded parks, they have never took direct aim at any of the Busch Gardens parks, or really batted an eye at them for that matter. If they cared what BGW did, we probably would've heard something about the Penguins being displayed in less than two feet wide boxes a while ago. I have very strong doubts a dog being pulled out of a box would put PETA on edge at a park they have never payed attention to in the past. Also, if PETA did take issue to it, their solution would probably be to steal Lucy from the park and euthanize her.

I don't understand the detestation towards the kids in the show. I think their role is at just the perfect amount in the show. Like SNM, kids are really one of the main characters of the original story, so I don't think it would be that wise to decrease their role to a point where they are hardly mentioned. I don't find the kids to be all that intrusive anyway, not nearly as bad as the kid who is given incredibly cheesy, direct dialogue and is the first thing you see in Iceploration. But I guess to each their own.

I'm still not sure where some people are seeing all the mistakes in the performance. As I have stated, I have watched four different shows and have seen a minimal amount of incidents, probably around the amount that I see in one showing of ice shows that have been performing for months. I'm not saying there weren't restrictions on rehearsal time, but I don't think it's wise to make an inductive conclusion that a lack of rehearsal is the only factor that might lead to incidents in the performance, many other things can contribute to that.

Finally, I frankly think that it is ludicrous to call the performance, or worse yet the performers "unprofessional" for a not completely perfect showing on opening weekend. I think if I was part of the cast of the show, I would even take some offense to that statement. The cast is nothing but professional, it's composed of a former Olympian(whose performances have been completely flawless every time I've seen it), many of his companions and other well-known skaters.
 
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I wasn't going to post until I had time to write up my full review, but this is spinning up into something it shouldn't be.

I'm not suggesting that anyone has stated that it belongs at either extreme on the quality spectrum, but I want to start off by highlighting that I think it's totally ridiculous to push Twas that Night into either extreme category- flawless or a disaster. I personally think considering Twas That Night on Ice, in its current state, a train wreck or the second coming of Christ are both equally ridiculous. The show I saw last weekend wasn't horrible but it also wasn't groundbreaking or stunning either (see: Scrooge No More!). If anyone does believe it belongs at either extreme of the spectrum, I highly suggest looking at the show from a more objective standpoint because I can't fathom a world in which it belongs in either category.

Personally, I have seen better ice shows and I've seen worse ice shows in theme parks. My personal opinion is that Twas That Night is a good show that has the potential to be a great show. Currently though, I do think it has some glaring flaws. To quickly list what comes to mind (hopefully I'll elaborate more later), the main problems I saw were the lack of practice (falls, fumbling with props, and missing cues were numerous and obvious on Saturday), the reserved seating setup is ludicrous, and, lastly, the fact that you can't see crucial aspects of the show from at least the front 1/4th of the theater is downright inexcusable. My other problems with the show are aspects that I consider subjective (I would call the previous ones objective problems). The subjective issues I'd point to are the muddy characters, the superhero (WTF?), the reindeer scene, the nauseating "cute" kids, and the dog. Again, that list is things that I, personally, don't like. I don't consider those objective problems with the show.

The issues with lack of rehearsal time and the inability to see part of the show from some of the (otherwise) best seats in the theater are problems that I would consider indisputable issues with the show right now. The main defense for the first that I've heard is that some people haven't seen the falls, fumbles, and missed cues. As someone who sat in one of the front few rows and who doesn't have a history of hallucinations, I can tell you with 100% certainty that I saw one after another throughout the whole show this weekend. Remember: Not seeing something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The visibility problem seems to have been completely glossed over in the thread thus far and, honestly, I think that's giving the park a ridiculous pass. No one would have let the park get away with that in London Rocks. Hell, people got pissy about London Rocks when the projections were slightly off focus. I'd take off-focus projections over not seeing a crucial part of the show any day.

Anyway, I've already rambled enough. As you may be able to tell, my thoughts on everything are still a little raw and unpolished. I had to jump in and cut off the extremist rhetoric before it went any further though because it was starting to sound aggressive. People need to start sorting their personal preferences from what they believe to be facts and then clearly state which fall into which category. Lastly, I'll leave you with this: Don't try to change anyone's minds. This is the internet. You're better off betting on a unicorn in the Kentucky derby.
 
Just for clarity, I never said the cast was unprofessional; I said that the lack of rehearsal time made the entire show seem unprofessional. That includes cues, comfort with props and costumes, and ease of performance.
 
So having read all this my question would be if i were to see the show what would be the best place to watch in order to get the best experience.
 
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Matthew said:
I really think this dog thing is being blown way out of proportion.

First of all, the dog is a dachshund, her name is Lucy and she was adopted by the park herself, as she performs in More Pet Shenanigans during the main season. As you all know, that's a show where the park promotes adoption. From what I have heard she has developed a great connection with the cast, also. I think to say that her part in the show promotes giving pets as gifts which in turn means they will be given up to animal shelters is pretty absurd, and looking way too far into things, especially further than what I assume all of the GP will. I never thought any more of that part of the show than to let it end on a sweet, memorable note.

The premise that there's a potential PETA will notice or complain about it is not very believable, in my opinion. The attack on SEAS by PETA is strictly on the Seaworld branded parks, they have never took direct aim at any of the Busch Gardens parks, or really batted an eye at them for that matter. If they cared what BGW did, we probably would've heard something about the Penguins being displayed in less than two feet wide boxes a while ago. I have very strong doubts a dog being pulled out of a box would put PETA on edge at a park they have never payed attention to in the past. Also, if PETA did take issue to it, their solution would probably be to steal Lucy from the park and euthanize her.

I am sorry but it's not being blown out of portion.  I personally heard two different two different groups of kids ask for a dog at the end of the show I saw.  Maybe they get it maybe they don't but I will repeat what I said before December and January are hell on shelters because of animals being given to people who either don't want them or are not prepared for the reality of what they really are.  Is that the parks fault no and yes they have done great work in supporting shelters through both Pet Shenanigans and their donation of free tickets to people who adopt from shelters as a thank you.  But that said this show is still in a small way putting that it's sweet to rap a dog up and give it away message out there.  You yourself said it's a sweet memorable moment.

Your point about PETA is spot on they won't doing about it in part cause of their own history.  And for the record they are stupid in most things anyhow,


Matthew said:
I don't understand the detestation towards the kids in the show. I think their role is at just the perfect amount in the show. Like SNM, kids are really one of the main characters of the original story, so I don't think it would be that wise to decrease their role to a point where they are hardly mentioned. I don't find the kids to be all that intrusive anyway, not nearly as bad as the kid who is given incredibly cheesy, direct dialogue and is the first thing you see in Iceploration. But I guess to each their own.

I actually could not agree with you more on this point the kids are key to the story and I thought that their role was VERY well planned and done.

Matthew said:
I'm still not sure where some people are seeing all the mistakes in the performance. As I have stated, I have watched four different shows and have seen a minimal amount of incidents, probably around the amount that I see in one showing of ice shows that have been performing for months. I'm not saying there weren't restrictions on rehearsal time, but I don't think it's wise to make an inductive conclusion that a lack of rehearsal is the only factor that might lead to incidents in the performance, many other things can contribute to that.

I saw it one time the mistakes are there if you are missing them it's cause you don't want to see them.  That said two things one no one is perfect mistakes happen and there will always be some.  But two I do think the lack of practice time was key here.  From what I have heard they only had TWO days of full rehearsals before the opening night.  Those where Tuesday and Wednesday night.  Also from what I heard they didn't finish the costumes till about Monday or Tuesday.  So they are still getting use to everything and like all things practice will make it better.  To add to that I saw it Sunday and from what I have read here it has already improved quite a pit from the first two days. As I said before I like the show and I will be back to see it again and see how it continues to improve.

Matthew said:
Finally, I frankly think that it is ludicrous to call the performance, or worse yet the performers "unprofessional" for a not completely perfect showing on opening weekend. I think if I was part of the cast of the show, I would even take some offense to that statement. The cast is nothing but professional, it's composed of a former Olympian(whose performances have been completely flawless every time I've seen it), many of his companions and other well-known skaters.

I agree with you that it's unfair but I haven't heard anyone here call them that I might have missed it though.  Also it's my experience that part of being a professional any field where you are displaying before people is two fold.  One don't personalize criticism.  And two look at criticism and figure out how to use it to improve.  No one is perfect and completely flawless you can be VERY VERY good as Elvis is and still have things you need to work on.

Also as a side note I really do think too much is being made about the sleigh on the roof.  It's a very nice touch and try to get seats where you will be able to see it but come on people it's mainly a set peace with a few special effects and it would be hard to place it in a location that was any better.
 
The Hessian said:
So having read all this my question would be if i were to see the show what would be the best place to watch in order to get the best experience.

Just as a general rule, most professional theater is staged, designed, and directed to be seen center (with regards to stage right/ left) and within a few rows of middle of house. Too far forward and site lines are a mess too far back and details are missed.

When I make this statement I often hear, "then why in NYC are front row, and box tickets so expensive?" Marketing, people buy these tickets to be seen or because they want to have a chance to see back stage mistakes. Also in some cases where permitted, photography may be preferable from close in. In the case of professional theater this is usually done with the coordination of the director and cast and with no audience.
 
Although I tried to remain relatively neutral, I'm afraid to post my real review now. When I watch a show, it's like tuning a microscope. I can see everything wrong with a show and save it for later, or I can ignore all negative things. When I watch a show for the first time, I try to find a middle ground, because I realize that there might be some mistakes. Also, being a "theatre person" is a two way matter. You can either lose all of the magic, or be more willing to sympathize when mistakes happen.

They need to remove the deliberate falls in the opening number. They try to make it more obvious that it's deliberate by adding a laugh track when the dad does a stage dive. Although I realize it resembles part of "It's A Wonderful Life", it still puts the audience more on alert for the real mistakes.
 
OK one thing I am hearing was that Friday the ice had more or less completely melted and that they had to cancel their final rehearsal and a couple shows while it was remade. I am also hearing that given the high temps this weekend that it kept partially melting and refreezing making skating hard and that the conditions were so bad that they canceled the last show Sunday as they deemed the ice unsafe. I guess this helps explain what some of us were seeing this weekend and suggests that maybe some of us myself included have been judgeing it a little harder then is fair.
 
As horsesboy stated above, having an outdoor ice show is challenging for both the folks that maintain the ice surface and the skaters themselves.

Probably 99% of figure skating competitions and shows are held in indoor, climate controlled facilities. There, you can control the air temperature and humidity. Plus, the refrigeration equipment is more robust in order to keep the ice frozen.

I am sure you can come up with a multitude of reasons of what can impact an outdoor skating rink. Especially, a small and temporary ice rink.

Some of you may or may not know this; but, ice is made according to the activity that it is being used for. Ice Hockey uses thinner ice where the surface is very hard. This allows the puck and players to travel faster over the ice.

Figure skaters cannot perform on this type of ice. They could break a leg or ankle. They need the ice surface to be thicker. With thicker ice, the surface is "softer" allowing figure skaters to "dig" into the ice to take off for jumps and provides some "cushion" when landing a jump. It also allows more control of skating speed and direction.

As you can see, that makes it harder to maintain a good and safe ice surface for figure skaters to perform on when it is outdoors.

Course, we have not taken in consideration what the skaters themselves do to the ice surface. Combine multiple skaters with a small outdoor ice rink and they can really tear up the surface over a 25-30 minute performance. This comes from the spins, stops, and jumps they perform. This causes the surface to become very rough. Plus, if any skater is doing jumps on the ice, that causes divats to form. Those are mini ice potholes where the toe pick of the skate chips off pieces of ice when taking off and landing jumps.

So, its not so easy to pull off a show under those conditions. I am sure the skaters are happy when a performance is flawless. But, a slip, bobble, and the occasional fall will happen. Even Olympic caliber figure skaters will have issues during competition. I, for one, am not the type of person that would scream "You're Unprofessional!" when that happens.
 
In addition to this ^, typical ice skating happenings doesn't explain watching the cast fumble with props center-stage and missing multiple, obvious cues. To the average viewer, when all of these things are added together, the show looks half-baked and unrehearsed.

No one in this thread has criticized the skills of a single skater in the show (much less the cast as a whole). The only criticism anyone has expressed is that the talented cast looked unrehearsed.

The term "unprofessional" came in to describe the current appearance of the show in general- which I'd agree with. Fumbling with props and missing cues are issues I'd expect in a dress rehearsal, not throughout the opening weekend. The cast is clearly capable of using props and hitting cues- but both require a lot of practice- a lot of practice that it is clear Busch Gardens Williamsburg did not give them.

PS: Thanks for the ice care info mwhinva!
 
But, is it fair to criticize BG for lack of rehearsal time? Isn't rehearsal time on the ice also dependent on ice conditions, which is also dependent on weather?

It is very possible that the warm weather we've had this fall made them cancel a bunch of rehearsals.
 
If they cannot find or create the facilities they need to provide their performers the practice time they deserve, then they shouldn't try to have the show to begin with.

It is the park's responsibility to provide their performers adequate practice time for their safety and professional reputations. There are indoor rinks they could have rented, if that is what it took.

Warm winters are common in Virginia and this year it was predicted early.  BGW cannot hide behind the weather to excuse their failing to allow their talent time to prepare, especially with costumes and props like the ones in the show.
 
It's also worth noting that in my experience 70 degree weekends at Christmas Town aren't actually that uncommon. If the park hasn't setup the rink to prepare for them, that's another huge issue entirely.

(Also, the chain has experience with dealing with an outdoor ice rink in an enviroment where temperatures vary wildly. SeaWorld Orlando's doesn't even have the benefit of a roof.)
 
So just wondering, how fast does this show fill up? Is it like Celtic Fyre where the theatre is almost half full as soon as they open the doors or is it like London Rocks where the theatre isn't even half full twenty minutes after they open the doors?
 
When I saw it on Saturday, the line was already into the Wild Reserve 45 minutes prior. People were still coming in a steady stream until it started. I don't think you could have gotten a seat 5-10 minutes before it started, unless you were in the reserved section, but I could be wrong.
 
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