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I love seeing a close up shot of the wobble the track endures during launch.
Attraction Top Thrill 2
- Thread starter YachtyLogs
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I love seeing a close up shot of the wobble the track endures during launch.
People are Reddit are claiming this is a whole redesign of the coaster, and that the drop has been completely demolished. Any thoughts?
Check messages I can verify.
Verifying with Zachary right now.
Check messages I can verify.
lemme message you rn
Verifying with Zachary right now.
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The drop on TTD has been demolished? It was just on the live cams this morning before they were moved to face Millennium. The top hat and entire drop was completely still intact
It would not surprise me if some college management program students knew about upcoming projects. A few years back I had an internship with a construction company that worked hand in hand with a park. Both of which I will keep unnamed for their own sake. I was told details about a coaster they were asked to bid on that next year and even told about preliminary plans for another one 3 years down the road. Both of these coasters came to fruition and were built.
I would be surprised if a construction company had the same concerns about project secrecy as the park.
To me, an intern with a contractor > intern with the park ops department. One job relies on that info, the other's doesnt
How so unless it's a multi-year internship dealing with business planning?
I can't think of why a construction intern needs to know much outside of the current projects they are involved in.
I'd also question how many construction companies that work on coasters also do other structures as well? I mean, while coasters are niche structures, much of the assembly techniques can be applied to other structures - foundation work, carpentry, steel work, vertical construction, electrical, ground prep/site drainage all factor into most conventional commerical construction. So it's conceivable that just because an intern is involved with a coaster doesn't mean that they'd necessarily also be exposed to similar structures.
Additionally, I'd argue that part of any internship is learning not only to perform the baseline job of the given industry, but also to be exposed to a variety of roles and projects to give them a better foundation with the industry and, ya know, contribute to their education.
But that still doesn't mean they need to know future business plans (that may not even have a finalized contract), especially if their internship will be over by then. And wouldn't a park have non-disclosure clauses within any contract?
My point is that in an organization with thousands of employees, only the top brass in most departments, plus the planning and engineering department, need to know about a future project at their park. At a company that only has 10-100 employees, most know what their company is up to. For a construction company, most only offer internships in a planning and engineering capacity. Most parks do not.
As far as who assembles the structures, many companies that don't have their own crews hire local/regional contactors for assembling the ride. It's cheaper than hiring people full time for work that is highly seasonal. And it's not like they need that many special skills that are unique to rides. Ironwork and carpentry are universal enough that a good company can adapt. It's not like companies only assemble coasters and can't build anything else.
As far as who assembles the structures, many companies that don't have their own crews hire local/regional contactors for assembling the ride. It's cheaper than hiring people full time for work that is highly seasonal. And it's not like they need that many special skills that are unique to rides. Ironwork and carpentry are universal enough that a good company can adapt. It's not like companies only assemble coasters and can't build anything else.
Protip: Parks have been known to willfully mislead certain, leak-prone groups of people with specific, incorrect information to intentionally muddy the water and/or smoke out leaks.
Not saying that's what is occuring in this college program, but damn it's exactly what I'd be doing if I were running such a program at Cedar Point right now.
I tend to believe that people with industry contacts like @Unagi, @Fur Dozy, and presumably El Toro Ryan are more likely to possess insights into a project like this than some college students working at the park.
It's all rumor until there's proof though and I've certainly not seen anything approaching proof.
Not saying that's what is occuring in this college program, but damn it's exactly what I'd be doing if I were running such a program at Cedar Point right now.
I tend to believe that people with industry contacts like @Unagi, @Fur Dozy, and presumably El Toro Ryan are more likely to possess insights into a project like this than some college students working at the park.
It's all rumor until there's proof though and I've certainly not seen anything approaching proof.
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I agree, it had just surprised me a decent bit since I was not involved with either coaster. It was interesting to me how early the contractor had specific details for the job. Nothing like the parks keeping us on our toes!
Did some sleuthing on a rainy day....
Thanks to the magic of shipment tracking, we know the open-top container (HLBU8081873) with TTD track is headed to a port in Genoa, Italy. No new news there. For some fun context, it left out of NYC on a container ship called the Vienna Express which is operated by Hapag-Lloyd. It made a stop at a port in Norfolk, is currently off the coast of Miami waiting to head into port, and will soon make the trip across the Atlantic. (Tracking info, Link to pictures, Vessel tracking)
The tracking also shows that the empty container left the port of NY on 10/13, and we saw pictures of the track being loaded on 10/14. The truck in the pictures is one operated by Lico Transport, which bills itself as a "leader in intermodal transport in the ports of NY & NJ". The truck returned to the port of NY on 10/19. Up to this point, dates line up, everything checks out, and what we know is quite concrete. (Trucking Co. Info, Trucking Co. Website)
Now we start to touch on the rumors.... The port of Genoa is relatively equidistant from both Intamin (4.5h away in Liechtenstein) and Zamperla (3.5h away in Vicenza, Italy). Where it gets interesting is when you start digging through previous bills of lading from both companies. The last 3 shipments by Zamperla were sent to the US via Embassy Cargo. In fact, historical shipping data shows that Zamperla almost exclusively uses Embassy Cargo with only 2 shipments in the past year having used a different carrier. Neither are relevant. (Zamperla historical shipping data)
Intamin, on the other hand, relies heavily on multiple shipping partners with one of them being, you guessed it, Hapag-Lloyd. In the past year, Intamin has sent 13 of their US-bound shipments via Hapang-Lloyd. One data source shows H-L to be their most-used carrier, but getting detailed versions of this data for free is nearly (entirely, so far) impossible. (Intamin historical shipping data, Second source of historical data)
Fun fact: It appears that Zamperla has never shipped anything via Hapag-Lloyd, or at least I can't find a single example in the past 250 shipments. (Best Source)
Additionally, the manufacturing firm who actually made TTD's track (Stakotra Manufacturing) is only 11.5h away (by road) from the port of Genoa which likely makes it the most cost-effective port for shipping track there as well.
I know this isn't concrete evidence, but why would Zamperla all of a sudden start using a totally new shipping provider? Every single step of this has lead me to believe the Zamperla rumors less and less. Moving forward, If someone can find a way to obtain tracking information after the container is unloaded from the ship, we can likely confirm the destination.
At this time, personally, I am 95% sold on it being an Intamin job.
Thanks to the magic of shipment tracking, we know the open-top container (HLBU8081873) with TTD track is headed to a port in Genoa, Italy. No new news there. For some fun context, it left out of NYC on a container ship called the Vienna Express which is operated by Hapag-Lloyd. It made a stop at a port in Norfolk, is currently off the coast of Miami waiting to head into port, and will soon make the trip across the Atlantic. (Tracking info, Link to pictures, Vessel tracking)
The tracking also shows that the empty container left the port of NY on 10/13, and we saw pictures of the track being loaded on 10/14. The truck in the pictures is one operated by Lico Transport, which bills itself as a "leader in intermodal transport in the ports of NY & NJ". The truck returned to the port of NY on 10/19. Up to this point, dates line up, everything checks out, and what we know is quite concrete. (Trucking Co. Info, Trucking Co. Website)
Now we start to touch on the rumors.... The port of Genoa is relatively equidistant from both Intamin (4.5h away in Liechtenstein) and Zamperla (3.5h away in Vicenza, Italy). Where it gets interesting is when you start digging through previous bills of lading from both companies. The last 3 shipments by Zamperla were sent to the US via Embassy Cargo. In fact, historical shipping data shows that Zamperla almost exclusively uses Embassy Cargo with only 2 shipments in the past year having used a different carrier. Neither are relevant. (Zamperla historical shipping data)
Intamin, on the other hand, relies heavily on multiple shipping partners with one of them being, you guessed it, Hapag-Lloyd. In the past year, Intamin has sent 13 of their US-bound shipments via Hapang-Lloyd. One data source shows H-L to be their most-used carrier, but getting detailed versions of this data for free is nearly (entirely, so far) impossible. (Intamin historical shipping data, Second source of historical data)
Fun fact: It appears that Zamperla has never shipped anything via Hapag-Lloyd, or at least I can't find a single example in the past 250 shipments. (Best Source)
Additionally, the manufacturing firm who actually made TTD's track (Stakotra Manufacturing) is only 11.5h away (by road) from the port of Genoa which likely makes it the most cost-effective port for shipping track there as well.
I know this isn't concrete evidence, but why would Zamperla all of a sudden start using a totally new shipping provider? Every single step of this has lead me to believe the Zamperla rumors less and less. Moving forward, If someone can find a way to obtain tracking information after the container is unloaded from the ship, we can likely confirm the destination.
At this time, personally, I am 95% sold on it being an Intamin job.
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All great finds...a pleasure to read
I'm wondering however, since we really don't have that concrete evidence that these containers went to Intamin, is it possible there's a third or fourth party we aren't considering? I've heard the names Indrivetec and Intrasys get thrown out there, two companies that seem to specialize in LSM technology and ones Intamin seem to use for theirs (if they aren't plain subdivisions)
I'll admit I don't know squat about the engineering that goes into these rides, but is it possible that what's happening is that there are multiple companies working on this reimagining?
Could Indrivetec/Intrasys install the LSM, then Zamperla on for the new trains for the updated track and technology? Could the rack/trains be sold back to someone to use on other rides?
What also is missing is that if this is truly a reimagining, this most likely isn't just a new launch new train conversion, but much more work on the track. It would seem to make the most sense if one company designs most if not all of the finished product
I saw (for the first time) a picture of the track right down the line as the train launched and holy hell did that track bend as it launched. I wonder how much that stress on the components played into parts breaking and if some of the reimagining could be them building a better stronger track along with a revised launch system.
Basically - high stress launch and brake sections get strengthened and the launch redone; and this Intamin/CF split is purely just a rumor.
Basically - high stress launch and brake sections get strengthened and the launch redone; and this Intamin/CF split is purely just a rumor.
That angle reminds you how much 15,000 horsepower really is.
I thought more about this after. Haven't looked to see who else is in the region (until right now), but here are a few random thoughts I've thought about. Please understand these are ramblings from someone outside the industry with zero sources:
- It could make sense that CP used H-L if they were responsible for shipping. I doubt they'd be the ones doing that, and expect the company contacted to do the work to handle the logistics, but it's possible.
- I wonder if we're still very early in the process and a sampling of track is going to whomever for testing, development, etc., while the bulk of work could be done stateside, elsewhere, etc. It would make sense that any modifications to existing track would require structural analysis prior to work.
- Intrasys is in Germany, but Munich is far enough south that Genoa is probably still the closest port. Same goes for Indrivetec is Switzerland.
- Let's take a step back here for a moment and take our coaster nerd hats off... Dragster is one of the largest structures ever built in the world of roller coasters. The liability, risk, etc. that comes with taking over someone else's work is so high that you often see plumbers/electricians who won't do it, let alone a coaster manufacturer. It just doesn't make sense to me as a layman.
- New trains are a million bucks. Dragster's trains are whooped. I've personally seen a seat belt snap off and the seat be subsequently closed off with the magical sign and zip ties. Trains were responsible for the accident as well. They need an overhaul and probably need re-themed already, so why not accept the cost upfront and just move on with your day after buying new trains.
- Rumors about CP working with Zamperla can easily be explained by the wild mouse currently under construction.
Let's see... Better launch track cross bracing and track support (double-spine?) LSMs (isn't Intrasys a subsidiary of Intamin?), Maybe retheme which new trains would be able to help with...
It may not be Intamin, but the signs are surely pointing that direction
It may not be Intamin, but the signs are surely pointing that direction