Stop giving this horrible company your money. I don't care what plan you have grandfathered, it isn't worth paying for these parks.
The State of the Park: Busch Gardens Williamsburg
- Thread starter CoasterTalkBob
- Start date
So let me do some math here. let me do some math here and be entirely generous lets say it takes 16 employees to run the train. let's say they all make on average $20 a hour (they don't but fore the sake of argument) that would make the cost of bringing them in an hour early to do a reopen run and have the train ready to go at opening ruffly $320. The cost to not do this and run an empty train through a station where guests including multiple people in a wheelchairs were waiting while telling them they have to wait priceless. But hey it's not like BGW is hilly and can be a challenge for the the mobility disadvantaged right?
seriously this is a horrible image an extremely short sighted the par was able to do pre open runs and be ready to go on time for years it really shouldn't be that hard to keep it available for guests especially on days where they are not running the sky ride do it's the only transportation option.
seriously this is a horrible image an extremely short sighted the par was able to do pre open runs and be ready to go on time for years it really shouldn't be that hard to keep it available for guests especially on days where they are not running the sky ride do it's the only transportation option.
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That's fine and all but - it's not just $320.
Not defending BGW to say not running the train is ok. But you leave out the actual operating cost of the train without the labor. So the cost of fuel as well as the extra the wear and tear. Then you have maintenance having to come in earlier or bring in extra people because it's going to take time away from another ride. Then you got the time/expense of the added inspection.
I'm not sure how BGW does it, but the last time I had to do operating costs (deciding on new golf carts) like that we basically went through an entire operating year. Let's say they normally say it costs $1.5mil to run the train for a year. Now all of those costs for an extra hour a day pushes it to $2.1mil. Then you hour average out. And if you are really watching budget you figure out how you will make up that hourly change. So let's just say (for ease) that the train runs 40 hours a week for 40 weeks a year (to account for weather and weekend only operations). That's 1600 operating hours a year without the extra hour, words out to $937/hour with my made up number there. Pushing that to 45 hours a week, is 1800 operating hours, and with my made up increase of all the extras would push hourly operating expenses to $1167/hour.
Most times operating longer hours isn't a linier expense increase too, it's a exponential curve. The longer something runs the more likely something more expensive. With what I did we found by allowing tee times 30 minutes later and 30 minutes earlier than we used to that the cost of operating went up $20/hour, which meant our price for a round of golf with a cart had to go up an average of $30/round or we needed to cut staff by 30% to afford it in our budget.
Long story short from a labor perspective it's a rounding error to bring in those 20 people. But with everything that goes into it, it's a little more complicated.
That said - at the profits that PARKS reports they can afford to do this.
I agree. Speaking for myself and family, we are coaster and theme park enthusiasts to the bone, and were BGW regulars from 1991 until 2019. BGW hasn't gotten a cent of our hard-earned money since 2019, and I'm barely 50/50 for 2025 on changing that. KD, Cedar Point, Dollywood are all on our list for next year, due in part to the fact that we aren't happy longtime fans. Many friends of ours with families feel the same way, and are trying other parks such as the ones I mentioned because they feel that BGW is:
1.) An increasingly mediocre value overall
2.) Wasting opportunities with new ride choices and poor themes
3.) Lacking a proper security presence, even outside HoS
4.) No longer a clean, manicured experience, with less attention to detail or park-patron input/feedback
Again, I get they are a business, but there are businesses out there who operate in the same orbit as BGW and do it better, for less, and with a cohesiveness the park used to excel in, but nowadays, seems to give a fuck less about with each passing year.
BBW 2 or whatever they are calling it is a choice they made, and no matter how well-themed, or nostalgic, etc. - is IMO unlikely move the needle on attendance or profits in a meaningful way that a truly innovative or thoughtful addition that's not another family B&M invert could have. Where is BGW with patron surveys on options for new rides like we see at so many other parks? Is that too much to ask? Apparently so, and then we get stuck with a naming survey for a ride they've selected in which (for better or worse) the name options are not even selected...lol
On a growing number of levels with this park, this ride included, I keep thinking to myself.. why bother?
My family has also visited the parks you mention in the last couple of years, because they are great parks not because BGW is somehow a bad park. I'd wager lots of people not from Virginia view BGW in the same light as a lot of the other well-regarded parks out there. Beautiful setting, great shows, world-class rides. It's easy to criticize a place that you are intimately familiar with, and I can relate to that feeling of the park not being quite as great as it once was. Nostalgia is a powerful thing and somehow it feels like the park has lost something it once had when it was an Anheiser Busch labor of love.
I really don't relish playing the role of the defender of United Parks or whatever the name of the ownership company is at this moment in time. So I won't do it. There's definitely a lot of things they could be doing differently to better the experience for their guests. I just don't quite understand the repeated, full-throttle attacks on the park. No it's not perfect. But these types of anti-BGW propaganda posts are never going to change my mind about whether it's a good park worth visiting. It is one of the best out there.
Good is the enemy of great. This park was once that - great. Its not perfect, no park is, I agree with you on that. Yep, nostalgia does play a role too. However, I hope they can chart a course where they look at what they're offering and make some business decisions that truly set them apart from the rest, and things like BBW 2 and a lack of public sensibility is frustrating, especially when this was a park that used to put out surveys even AFTER rides were built and get feedback on what works and what doesn't.
Would love to see BGW on that pathway again.
Step 1 to fixing the problems: clean the bathrooms. Even the newly remodeled ones are disgusting most of the time. The entire park is in such a need of a cleaning. Parts are just gross. If I were the president I would be so embarrassed every time I step foot in a bathroom there or WCUSA. Maybe he has his own private one.
I've been to parks all over the country and a handful of parks in Europe and I still enjoy my time at BGW all things considered.
Has the park been declining lately? IDK Some aspects of the park have gotten worse. The 5% surcharge, the odd color schemes for the villages, the lack of theming added to Pantheon and Darkoaster, the removal of Da Vinci's Cradle, merch that's far more expensive than it needs to be, the new slower kiosks, and the lack of parking trams
Then again, I loved the new Loch Ness makeover, the England refurbishment, I appreciate that the park hasn't stooped to Florida Sea World park operations where they're running 1 train on weekends to push QQ sales, ride operations are really solid compared to a lot of parks, and they're always trying to bring passholders back with promos and perks. Hell, this new BBW coaster following on the heels of Loch Ness' makeover is a major step in the right direction for the park. I fully support this coaster 100%
A lot of the problems Busch faces pretty much falls on corporate. Corporate dictates that they add surcharges. Corporate dictates that they cut down on HOS decor. Corporate dictates how much of a budget the park gets for their new rides. Its up to us to support all the good stuff the park does so they can continue to improve.
Because all things considered, BGW is in a much better state than parks like Kentucky Kingdom, SFDK, CGA, BGT, SWO, SFA, Carowinds, etc. Its still the best run Sea World park in the chain right now and it does show.
Has the park been declining lately? IDK Some aspects of the park have gotten worse. The 5% surcharge, the odd color schemes for the villages, the lack of theming added to Pantheon and Darkoaster, the removal of Da Vinci's Cradle, merch that's far more expensive than it needs to be, the new slower kiosks, and the lack of parking trams
Then again, I loved the new Loch Ness makeover, the England refurbishment, I appreciate that the park hasn't stooped to Florida Sea World park operations where they're running 1 train on weekends to push QQ sales, ride operations are really solid compared to a lot of parks, and they're always trying to bring passholders back with promos and perks. Hell, this new BBW coaster following on the heels of Loch Ness' makeover is a major step in the right direction for the park. I fully support this coaster 100%
A lot of the problems Busch faces pretty much falls on corporate. Corporate dictates that they add surcharges. Corporate dictates that they cut down on HOS decor. Corporate dictates how much of a budget the park gets for their new rides. Its up to us to support all the good stuff the park does so they can continue to improve.
Because all things considered, BGW is in a much better state than parks like Kentucky Kingdom, SFDK, CGA, BGT, SWO, SFA, Carowinds, etc. Its still the best run Sea World park in the chain right now and it does show.
I will say that they removed the surcharge a few weeks ago.
So something interesting that I came across talking with a friend still in the urban planner business on a similar topic but more about public health and cleanliness. She was saying that there's more cities experimenting with a concept of having smaller more frequent restrooms. They found in doing so that it actually cost less to maintain them and clean them because the staff knew that had to move faster. Another thing that staff said was because the restrooms were smaller, they found it less likely someone would use it while they were cleaning, so they were more motivated to clean.
Not saying that would necessarily be the right move for BGW here, but it's something to think about. What's more disturbing to me than the cleaning is the number of times I go into a BGW restroom and 2 of the urinals are covered in TP so nothing can flush down, then there's 2-3 toilets clogged with shit and TP. And not like a reasonable amount of TP, like half the roll. Now I know that you can't have cameras in the stalls and bathrooms, but clearly issues like that are more tied to vandalism. So I think part of cleaning the bathrooms needs to start with cracking down on people doing intentional things like that.
Next - I can't remember if they have this or not, but they need to have self flushing toilets and the urinals that don't even need a flushing sensor. And for the things with sensors, set them super sensitive, that way it flushes the crap down because you've even wiped your backside. In the center I manage we had some bathroom cleanliness issues, and since making these changes it's been much easier to keep it clean and working.
Of course the very expensive part of this whole problem is likely that most of the sewer system was built out in the 70's and was not designed to take on as much and many days as it's been getting. I wouldn't be shocked if part of the issue across the park is tied to the system itself.
Anyways - back to cleaning the bathrooms, I think you do a little bit of each of those things it makes it easier for them to keep the restrooms clean. Also going to those trough sinks that have the soap, water, and hand dryer all in one stalk would help as it take another paper product that causes issues out of the way. That can free up some of the potential sanitary staff/maintenance staff/plumbing issues out. Upgrade some of your sewer issues, then put in a few smaller restrooms here and there and you've at least impacted the problem.
Needing to exist?
FIFY. I have it in my center bathroom. The Whole Foods by me, Mission BBQ, Buger joint all have them as actual plaques. The fact that needs to be printed and posted anywhere is a fucking damning sign of the human condition.
The biggest sin, to me, is the complete lack of professionalism and presentation with that sign. Typed in default Arial font in an unformatted Microsoft Word doc with no treatment to the font size or spacing to put the focus on the main part of the message.
The “human condition” may or may not be deteriorating, but how embarrassing is it that BGW doesn’t have some branded templates and a centralized office to produce high-quality signs?
The “human condition” may or may not be deteriorating, but how embarrassing is it that BGW doesn’t have some branded templates and a centralized office to produce high-quality signs?
Hell, they spelled everything right. That alone is a MAJOR improvement for Busch.
I'm sorry that I can't get onboard with the issue being the sign rather than people doing such stupid things that the sign needed to be printed in the first place.
Sorry to edit this after @Zachary but honestly - I need it better explained why the fact people are trying to flush things that shouldn't isn't what I should be worried about over the sign printed. Honestly as someone that runs a retail center and does things like this all the time, I'm feeling a little attacked that the issue isn't the people doing things they shouldn't, but the employee that likely was more worried about a clogged toilet than a pretty sign.
Sorry to edit this after @Zachary but honestly - I need it better explained why the fact people are trying to flush things that shouldn't isn't what I should be worried about over the sign printed. Honestly as someone that runs a retail center and does things like this all the time, I'm feeling a little attacked that the issue isn't the people doing things they shouldn't, but the employee that likely was more worried about a clogged toilet than a pretty sign.
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Anything with THAT rapid of a decline coupled with out-of-control price increases is going to be lambasted by people who remember what they got at a lower price point not that long ago.
I've always been interested in this line so I wanted to test something.
2005 - The best I could find inline was single day tickets were $55.95
2024 - The best I can find is $114.99
But if you account for inflation from 2005 to 2024, that ticket in 2005 was akin to a ticket costing $90.33 today. So when accounting for inflation the cost of BGW has gone up $24.66 in almost 20 years. Not saying that's good or great, but its a more equitable comparison.
more than double the cost for a lesser experience doesn't feel good regardless of inflation.
I'm not trying to say it justifies the experience. But to the best I can find an multiple parks the inflation hit the ticket prices on single day the same. Now the amount they went up outside of inflation varies from the ~$40 for Disney/USO and the ~$15 for KD. Saying you want to compare this stuff regardless of inflation ignores a good bit if what is causing the prices to go up. From 2005 to Now inflation is up about 62%, so the consideration for that needs to be what's above that number.