Register or Login to Hide This Ad for Free!
Sounds like a lot of additional cost without an obvious return.

Of course, I understand the value of a world class workforce. But a company like SEAS just knows they are turning a profit now, so why bother with starting to spend a lot more on their staffing without a guaranteed return identified? It's already difficult to get higher ups to invest in things that you can't estimate the return on investment. When a company is already turning a huge profit and is showing no sign of slowing down, it's a near impossible task.

I would love to see your changes and agree they would improve the employee situation at the park, but it's just unrealistic. Like saying "man if they just halved the cost of food and made it taste better, it would be awesome", but instead "man, if they made it way more enjoyable to work at the park and made it pay more it would be awesome."
 
The things that don’t have the obvious returns are the things that customers often pick up on. For all the pictures we have in this thread and various other ones of issues shows people can see it.

This like work forces don’t turn around overnight. And honestly I don’t really see anything that I put out there that’s “unrealistic”. The company I work for does a half day shut down twice a year for a deep clean with the employees doing the work and we take the pride in the quality of the center. And it helps us with more sales. I hear the comments between students of when it’s clean.

This isn’t about making a world class workforce. It’s about putting the reasons to take pride in your workplace out there. Those things aren’t about making it more enjoyable; it’s about having them do the work to make it comfortable so they want to keep it that way.

One of the best things I was told in this past year from higher ups in my company that really turned around my attitude as a manager: Don’t invest in the stuff, invest in the people.
 
Its easily said to allow employees of the park to clean and change light bulbs but form a risk management perspective that is a nightmare. Lets took at painting, you get an employee that does not know about paint thinners and such, what happens when they are injured not properly using the product, or what happens when they use it wrong and cause a fire. Changing light bulbs....sounds easy but what happens when that person that isnt properly trained climbs up on a ladder and falls. With people being sue happy these days employers have to be careful with things like this not to mention the chance OSHA investigates and finds the employee did something they shouldnt have even though the company didnt know or tell them to do it they are still responsible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mwe BGW and Mamunia
A company really shouldn't have to rely on the person running the register to make sure their buildings aren't falling apart.

There should be a properly staffed maintenance department to make sure that everything is save and working correctly and a properly staffed housekeeping department to make sure all areas, including backstage, are clean.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zachary and Mamunia
So maybe there's a practical difference of taking time on the clock but away from guests to tidy up an area within realistic expectations of a guest-facing position vs. having trained cleaners and maintenance folks regularly taking care of things?

Tbh, if I wasn't treated well at a part time job, I'd probably resent having to come in to clean or decorate. That's like half the memes out there of asking for a raise and respect in the the workplace only for management to kick in a pizza party.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mwe BGW
So maybe there's a practical difference of taking time on the clock but away from guests to tidy up an area within realistic expectations of a guest-facing position vs. having trained cleaners and maintenance folks regularly taking care of things?

Tbh, if I wasn't treated well at a part time job, I'd probably resent having to come in to clean or decorate. That's like half the memes out there of asking for a raise and respect in the the workplace only for management to kick in a pizza party.
The issue is it’s a chicken and egg problem. Hence why I didn’t suggest to have part time people come in.

I’ll give the easy example: My coaches started to complain about smells at work, dust in bays, stains on carpet. I asked when they last cleaned. They all said they can’t remember, that because they never saw it clean. We took a half a day to vacuum, windex, dust, run a carpet cleaner, electronic screen cleaners, murphy oil all the wood surfaces, touch up paint all the scuff marks. Now they get on each other in a good way for leaving trash out, not having a clean toilet, etc.
 
Ah well I missed that part.

I think the thing I'm stuck on is based on your descriptions, you work within a different environment where your average retail location isn't going to have a maintenance and cleaning crew regularly going through - at best, maybe a guy or two sweeping/mopping the floors overnight in most places.

However, perhaps the first step should be for the park to heavily invest in a deep cleaning crew and an area maintenance crew (assuming they already have this but to beef them up and add training opportunities as they arise) so that the guest-facing staff will expect their area will be clean and fully operational when walking in the door, most they need to do is the small decluttering and tidying tasks you have in any retail environment.

Once that's firmly established, then managers can have the organic conversations with any of their staff (pt and ft) to see who wants to come in on a paid down day or two (park can be open but their area closed to guests) to 'make it their own' without having them doing the tasks that are better left to specialized staff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nicole and MIKEYT67
The only spots that Likely need specialized crews is kitchens and ride electronics areas. To hand people soap, mops, buckets, sponges, degreaser, wood soap, things like that isn’t a big deal. Hell I’m talking about doing the type of cleaning that should be part of a closing procedure anyways!

To me what has clearly happened along the way is some people have stopped caring about it, so the next person goes “well it’s not my job” and next thing you know you get a new group of employees who are working in crap conditions from the start. Don’t bail them out by sending someone else in to clean what they can do, because that tells employees someone else will clean up their mess.
 
Let's agree to disagree on methodology though I think we're more or less in agreement to have staff taking pride in their work including their work environment, and for the park to work towards making that a reality.
 
My point is regardless of the methodology, SEAS will see 0 reason to improve their staffing situation whatsoever until it starts to hurt their wallets. They are making money off dysfunction now. No matter how much we complain and point out the quality drop, they are still making money.

Typically you circumvent the "if it ain't broke dont fix it" initial write off in the board room by showing figures that prove "we can make even MORE money if we do these things", but like I said, something like improving staffing quality is notoriously difficult to calculate return on investment for. The risk is seen as unnecessary for a company who has recently lowered their staffing quality and seen higher profits. Any short-sided suit would think "why would we reverse one of the things that may have contributed to our growing success without guaranteed returns."

So when I used the term "unrealistic" @warfelg I didn't mean unrealistic as in it is hard to do (because I agree that I would like to see everything you said and think it is doable), I'm saying it is unrealistic that SEAS would ever even consider improving the situation to a degree beyond what we already saw them do when they were desperate for staff.
 
It's not that we're expecting them to do this, and at least I understand where their decisions are coming from, it still doesn't make it unreasonable to point out areas for improvement regardless of whether they're going to pursue a solution or not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Icer
This may not seem relevant, but there are many interesting observations/lessons that can be applied to any industry. I think the important point @warfleg made was empowering workers to help make the experience better for their customers.
 
I have a few thoughts, based on some experiences I’ve had in Florida recently.

I was speaking with a very friendly Uni cast member, when I was picking up my pass. She was telling about a trip she and her boyfriend took to visit several parks, including Caro, BGW, SFOG, and Wild Adventures. Apparently, they really enjoyed BGW and thought it was a great park. As an aside, she prefers Pantheon to Velocicoaster, but says her boyfriend disagrees. So, I wonder if the problems many of us see with the park seem worse to us, because we go so often.

I was at BGT just yesterday and was struck by how much better staffed and maintained it was. There were tons of open restaurants; they were using both stations at Cheetah Hunt; we saw cleaning people everywhere; and we interacted with three separate keepers on one animal experience alone. I have heard that BGW is a victim of corporate policy, but those constraints don’t seem to have affected Tampa as much. Honestly, it seemed like a much better park.

Anyway, I know both of these anecdotes are only single data points and cannot be used to infer a trend. But I thought they were interesting counterpoints to the drumbeat I see here daily.
 
I have a few thoughts, based on some experiences I’ve had in Florida recently.

I was speaking with a very friendly Uni cast member, when I was picking up my pass. She was telling about a trip she and her boyfriend took to visit several parks, including Caro, BGW, SFOG, and Wild Adventures. Apparently, they really enjoyed BGW and thought it was a great park. As an aside, she prefers Pantheon to Velocicoaster, but says her boyfriend disagrees. So, I wonder if the problems many of us see with the park seem worse to us, because we go so often.

I was at BGT just yesterday and was struck by how much better staffed and maintained it was. There were tons of open restaurants; they were using both stations at Cheetah Hunt; we saw cleaning people everywhere; and we interacted with three separate keepers on one animal experience alone. I have heard that BGW is a victim of corporate policy, but those constraints don’t seem to have affected Tampa as much. Honestly, it seemed like a much better park.

Anyway, I know both of these anecdotes are only single data points and cannot be used to infer a trend. But I thought they were interesting counterpoints to the drumbeat I see here daily.
I wonder how much the aging workforce demographics of Williamsburg is impacting BGW.
 
I think largely BGW offers a superior product to the average. I think KD is starting to also do the same, even within their own chain they seem to be leading a bigger charge. It is almost like specifically KD (as opposed to the greater CF) is attempting to fight in the exact market BGW used to, whereas BGW is simply going through the motions. I could write an entire essay as to why it is significantly easier to staff BGT as opposed to BGW but without getting into all that, it is possible the same strategy being applied at all SEAS parks works everywhere except BGW, since BGW is an exceptionally unique situation. The weaknesses exclusive to BGW (tighter low-end staffing pool, unique market proximity situation, etc) may be the weaknesses in this greater SEAS scheme, but since they only really apply to one of the parks and that park is still performing at a high degree, SEAS should have no reason to think their method is wrong. Hell, even if their method kills the reputation of BGW and slowly strangles the park, as long as every other park is actively thriving from all perspectives under the philosophy, they aren't even in the wrong.

Not that I want to see my favorite park die, but from a pure business perspective, I am starting to wonder if SEAS really even is doing anything wrong at this point. Even long term, I think it is unfair to use BGW as an indicator for the chain as a whole as I have for so long. Really wish there were more detailed books available.
 
I have a few thoughts, based on some experiences I’ve had in Florida recently.

I was speaking with a very friendly Uni cast member, when I was picking up my pass. She was telling about a trip she and her boyfriend took to visit several parks, including Caro, BGW, SFOG, and Wild Adventures. Apparently, they really enjoyed BGW and thought it was a great park. As an aside, she prefers Pantheon to Velocicoaster, but says her boyfriend disagrees. So, I wonder if the problems many of us see with the park seem worse to us, because we go so often.

I was at BGT just yesterday and was struck by how much better staffed and maintained it was. There were tons of open restaurants; they were using both stations at Cheetah Hunt; we saw cleaning people everywhere; and we interacted with three separate keepers on one animal experience alone. I have heard that BGW is a victim of corporate policy, but those constraints don’t seem to have affected Tampa as much. Honestly, it seemed like a much better park.

Anyway, I know both of these anecdotes are only single data points and cannot be used to infer a trend. But I thought they were interesting counterpoints to the drumbeat I see here daily.
I'm might be one of the best equiped to answer this a a regular down here and a frequent flyer at many of the other parks.

I've very much noticed that the general population and those not familiar still think of it as a great park. They're used to the food and beverage that is close to utter garbage at most parks, for super high prices, so SEAS parks aren't bad, they're just the same. The scenery you get is still very nice and while the new stuff at BGW isn't as themed it's hard to tell unless you are thinking of the new rides. Most of these people never went to the park back when the wolf was there and the food was good. They don't have the contrast. Locals, however, do. The folks up in VA I talk to and the passmembers to SEAS down here in FL are very much noticing and complaining.

Staffing at SWO has been fine, ignore the fact they closed many rides and shows over the last few years, what is open is generally run pretty well. BGT does fine on the weekends, busy weekdays are always a slog, and staffing for special events like HoS and the food fests was noticeably bad. I think that there's just more people in C.FL so the staffing just isn't quite as bad, but staffing at the other parks given a decent sample size is obviously much better.

The same garbage corporate policies are happening down here along with local changes that really sour the mood. All the parks change what benefits passmembers get on a whim, food options have continued to worsen, even during special events. Everything has been hiked in price, lowered in portions, discounts reduced and surcharges added. Depending on the ride op you will be told you cant even have drink cups in line with you only to get to the station where they have bins sitting there waiting with tarps over them. So you sit there and stare at that while waiting for 5 mins for the workers making minimum wage to load a train with at least 50% QQ riders as slowly as humanly possible only to still have other loose articles that are still permitted in line (such as hats) slow the process even further. Many of the park's smaller areas have been closed and aren't opening any time soon. Theatres sit dormant for most of the year, with minimal, mostly weekend showings when there is something.

I might be being a tad dramatic here but it gets the point across. It doesn't even have to be your first time visiting, if you don't go regularly you won't have the same experience as the regulars.

So, and just to not be a debbie downer, There's a (debatably) good reason for all this. It makes money. Regular attendees are normally what the business world calls deadbeats. A deadbeat is a customer that is either very shrewd or very frugal. They're the type that only purchase and utilize the best deals and don't help the bottom line much at all. They might be a part of social marketing but they really don't help the business all that much. In 2019, the parks were packed. Christmastown at BGT was an unbearable mosh pit. SEAS has gotten themselves in a spot whereby they market to less shrewd and picky customers, such as the out of towners, they can get much more out of each guest, lower staffing requirements and freeing up capacity for future growth at the same time.

As much as I enjoy theme parks, I also enjoy many other things, so for me, I'm in the boat of getting pushed out. I've only ever had one local park membership and all SEAS has done has had me switch from FL platinum to nothing currently, and probably Universal in a bit when Epic U opens. If I lived in VA, I'd have probably switched to a CF parks pass. SEAS parks are far from the worst, but they are quickly erroding to the point where, for instance, dollywood and silver dollar are much more frequent favorites among those who have visited both.

Currently I'd put SEAS at about the level of something like SFFT. It's definitely a great park, but you're gonna have to deal with some stuff throughout your experience.

Not that I want to see my favorite park die, but from a pure business perspective, I am starting to wonder if SEAS really even is doing anything wrong at this point. Even long term, I think it is unfair to use BGW as an indicator for the chain as a whole as I have for so long. Really wish there were more detailed books available.
As a publicly traded company they are executing a perfectly viable strategy that has some small risks but I don't think ultimately will matter. I mean, after blackfish what else can they do? Clean and pretty six flags is the easiest pivot they can make and with all the rides they are adding, they make a compelling case.

This is exactly why parks such as Knobels and Herschend are so good IMO. They make a profit, and the company continues to preserve it's culture rather than have to fight over quarterly.

If consumers had more willpower over this stuff, it might be different, but as is the bar is pretty low for that.
 
As a publicly traded company they are executing a perfectly viable strategy that has some small risks but I don't think ultimately will matter. I mean, after blackfish what else can they do? Clean and pretty six flags is the easiest pivot they can make and with all the rides they are adding, they make a compelling case.

This is exactly why parks such as Knobels and Herschend are so good IMO. They make a profit, and the company continues to preserve it's culture rather than have to fight over quarterly.

Alright ParkFans, let’s all pool our money and take SEAS private. Problem solved!
 
Consider Donating to Hide This Ad