The State of the Park: Busch Gardens Williamsburg

[CoasterAuditor]

I definitely feel a lot more "at ease" on my KD visits right now. BGW I feel like the park is furious if I don't have a credit card out and READY to swipe. I can usually get in and have a reasonable visit and get on all of the coasters I would like nowadays. It seems like any sort of issue that involves interacting with employees to solve a problem is a massive pain in the a**. I will say I DO appreciate the addition of the small baskets on the coasters for phones and wallets those are such a boost to somebody like me who carries very little into a park with me.

 

[MikeLovesKD]

I can't say I have experienced any of this. During my visit, the employees seemed very friendly to me and my buddy. Maybe it's my smile. The only thing I wish they would fix is the hard copy machine for the physical season passes. It's been broke sense last season and corporate still has not given the permission for the park to fix it. Other than that, I have no complaints against BGW. I have another visit coming up. For BGW, it's the atmosphere that does it for me. For seven to eight hours, I am in another world. BGW is living proof that an amusement park can still have captivating theme. For BGW, this goes all the way back to their old parent company, but it all comes down to what the company wants to spend it's dollars on. With BGW being in Williamsburg, it falls into the category of a tourist destination, but I feel in ways that it's grown into that category. By classification, it is a regional theme park.

Furthermore, I feel BGW will win the battle against KD if it continues to do what it's doing. Give or take KD responds back to BGW with a great addition. BGW seems to be doing a good job with the unique attractions. Working with what they currently have seems to be their focus. DarKoaster will use the dormant castle and most likely have an appealing theme that visitors love. Good way to bring more money back to Germany. For me, that seems to be the side of the park that I enjoy the most in the late evening hours.

 

[Icer]

I think the issue isn't with their newer customers, rather they have deteriorated the product so much from what it once was they have alienated the majority of their vast local audience.

This park always thrived on locals as the main attendance, since the area brings so many people in through the gates. These people are also extremely loyal to the park when it was a good experience, now they have put so much of an emphasis on attracting new sign ups and new people through the gate they have lost sight of how important customer retention is. That is why profits are such a bad marker of success, they only show the instantaneous success. Customer satisfaction markers like return visitors per hundred or survey results or renewing memberships are way more important for the long term success of a park. Gate baiting has never proven successful in the long term, as typically the two different markers require two different business decisions to achieve them. Typically the decisions that are made to attract loads of new customers negatively impact the ability to retain large amounts of existing customers, which is why spending on new rides and attractions needed to be balanced with food & show quality as well as employee training and preparation. Over the next couple seasons they will see the impacts of these decisions on their financials, yet I worry their solution will be to double down and think they need to enlarge their revenue more rather than reduce the revenue decay.

 

[Nibbins]

[...] Furthermore, I feel BGW will win the battle against KD if it continues to do what it's doing. Give or take KD responds back to BGW with a great addition. BGW seems to be doing a good job with the unique attractions. [...]

I don't think adding 1 or 2 unique coasters comes even close to make up for the crummy park experience right now.

I can't convince my kids to go to BGW anymore unless they get their $10 Busch Bucks or some other incentive.

 

[I64 Trekker]

Looks like lower attendance isn't just a BGW issue...

"The issue is traffic, which appears to have worsened across theme parks last month, and especially for Six Flags."

Six Flags Stock Has Slumped. Why It Could Get Worse.

Six Flags stock was downgraded by Citi, which cited concerns about visitation trends and the impact of a possible recession.

www.barrons.com

 

[EdK]

Furthermore, I feel BGW will win the battle against KD if it continues to do what it's doing.

In comparing the two parks KD was horrible during the Paramount years. It's pretty amazing how they took a nice park and ran it into the ground. I'm not sure if you've read some of the threads, but right now it seems BGW is on a downhill trend due to bad management while KD is on a steep uphill curve. KD has made great progress on the food, entertainment and theming while providing excellent value on pricing. BGW has seen a spike in prices but hasn't delivered much in those three areas.

I think the issue isn't with their newer customers, rather they have deteriorated the product so much from what it once was they have alienated the majority of their vast local audience.

@I64 Trekker - given your and Ice's comments, it seems BGW might have shot themselves in the foot. Less tourists because of rising gas, restaurant and hotel prices and the locals are tired of the high prices and other issues at the park. If I was local I'd consider going there once or twice a week but not if the beer is $14 and the food is expensive and not very good.

I've expressed this many times on this forum, but I still can't put into words how bitter I am over the hostile takeover of AB and what it's done to BGW.

 

[MikeLovesKD]

Theme parks will generally experience this when the economy is in a slump. I still think BGW is doing a good job. I have not had one bad weekend. Then again, it's generally just me and my friend. We get there and hop right into the attractions. I don't spend too much on food because I eat before I go. The park is doing very good on the attractions. For what I'm paying for membership; I am definitely getting my money's worth. I might try some of the shows this coming Saturday. Never seen any of them.

 

[Coasternerd]

Theme parks will generally experience this when the economy is in a slump. I still think BGW is doing a good job. I have not had one bad weekend. Then again, it's generally just me and my friend. We get there and hop right into the attractions. I don't spend too much on food because I eat before I go. The park is doing very good on the attractions. For what I'm paying for membership; I am definitely getting my money's worth. I might try some of the shows this coming Saturday. Never seen any of them.

Celtic Fyre is a must.

 

[boston191]

Celtic Fyre is a must.

I agree. I was going this Sunday but the web site does not have them performing. I thought Monday was their day off.

 

[Coasternerd]

I agree. I was going this Sunday but the web site does not have them performing. I thought Monday was their day off.

I believe that it’s because of the Pride day stuff, they are using the theater for that.

 

[EdK]

Theme parks will generally experience this when the economy is in a slump. I still think BGW is doing a good job. I have not had one bad weekend. Then again, it's generally just me and my friend. We get there and hop right into the attractions. I don't spend too much on food because I eat before I go. The park is doing very good on the attractions. For what I'm paying for membership; I am definitely getting my money's worth. I might try some of the shows this coming Saturday. Never seen any of them.

In all fairness I agree BGW is still the better of the two parks. For me though KD is a day trip but BGW is just far enough away that it's better to spend a night. The problem is my wife does not like the coasters and with the decline in food, entertainment and the clothes selection in the shops, there just isn't enough to justify the cost of a visit. We also feel CW has gone in the same direction as BGW which used to be a draw for us.

 

[MikeLovesKD]

In all fairness I agree BGW is still the better of the two parks. For me though KD is a day trip but BGW is just far enough away that it's better to spend a night. The problem is my wife does not like the coasters and with the decline in food, entertainment and the clothes selection in the shops, there just isn't enough to justify the cost of a visit. We also feel CW has gone in the same direction as BGW which used to be a draw for us.

This has happened at a number of parks. Many of these parent companies are cutting back. Cedar Fair began with the low rider, high maintenance clean up. That's why we have experienced many rides removed and the recent sale of California's Great America. Six Flags America went through the same thing when Mark Shapiro was running the company. A lot of fan favorite attractions were removed if they had high maintenance cost and didn't fit the family theme. It's a shame your wife doesn't do coasters anymore. That's all the reason we go to theme parks. BGW I actually do as a day trip. I'm use to long drives, so I generally drive back after the park closes and still get to work by 8:00am.

I've been to BGW enough times to understand how much it takes to run that park. As you can see, they are still able to pull of 10:00pm closing with full staff. How often do you go there and see stuff closed? I can't complain. The rides are amazing and food is decent. Each themed section has it's own restaurants, so you never are forced to leave a certain area to find food. That is not cheap for a park to do. You'd have to bringing in a high number of people to justify the high overhaul to accommodate every themed section with an eatery. Not to mention, BGW does this themselves. As you can see they try not to use franchise chains.

 

[Celticdog]

Each themed section has it's own restaurants, so you never are forced to leave a certain area to find food.

I have to take exception to this statement. Many years ago each hamlet did have its own restaurant. Many have been closed. Food eateries are no longer conveniently located. One must leave Festa Italia to go to Marco Polo. One must leave Ireland to go to either Squire's Grille or Trapper's. One must leave Rhineland to go Festhuas. There is nothing in Forest of Fun. Scotland has nothing. Sure there are a few grab and go locations, but not nearly enough sit-down places.

 

[Icer]

One more major restaurant would really help in the peak times, though during lower attendance times like spring and summer would honestly necessitate the consistent closure of one of the other dining locations. Honestly the lack of "traditional pub fare" in the Grogan's area is pretty shocking and would fill a good void in the quick service system, allowing people to quickly grab walkable dishes like sandwiches, fish and chips cone, hand pies. Have shepherd pies or beef stew to sit on colder days and enjoy some comfort food.

Even without BfE, Ireland still always attracts a large number of guests between shows, Finnegan's, and the pub, as well as it being a major walkthrough. With the right concept the Grogan's Grill area could be a great restaurant addition, it just doesn't offer what it needs to.

 

[warfelg]

I have to take exception to this statement. Many years ago each hamlet did have its own restaurant. Many have been closed. Food eateries are no longer conveniently located. One must leave Festa Italia to go to Marco Polo. One must leave Ireland to go to either Squire's Grille or Trapper's. One must leave Rhineland to go Festhuas. There is nothing in Forest of Fun. Scotland has nothing. Sure there are a few grab and go locations, but not nearly enough sit-down places.

I get this on a technical sense, but it’s also overkill to put big major sit down spots in every part of the park.

If the BfE building is really done for, maybe they can expand Grogans to have sit down dining in the old queue line area from BfE. La Cucina reopening will help with Festa Italia, although I would argue that Marco Polo isn’t really out of the way to concern me personally. Ditto could be said for Rhineland and Festuas, but reopening the eatery by Alpie and Bob’s Speakeasy should suffice enough for that area.

I think expanding Grogans to be a sit down service based eatery and then everything that’s closed opening takes care of the issue easily. Especially what I feel they should do with Grogans and BfE queue in giving them something they don’t really have. Heck, if I were them I would hire a Chef just for that place and target $30-40 a dish in that area.

 

[Zachary]

Respectfully @MikeLovesKD, I'm glad you enjoy BGW now, but this statement spells out why your experience is so different from many in this thread:

It's a shame your wife doesn't do coasters anymore. That's all the reason we go to theme parks.

People loved BGW because of the high quality, varied attraction selection featuring everything from great food to top-teir atmosphere to relaxing leisure rides to great thrill rides to talented craftsmen to industry-leading shows to gorgeous botanical gardens to informative animal exhibits. Many of the reasons you look down on KD now and prefer BGW are the exact reasons why I have only been to BGW a handful of times since Pantheon opened.

I do not go to parks for coasters. Some of my favorite parks hardly even have coasters (Epcot, Gilroy Gardens). I go to parks for the same reasons many folks go to botanical gardens or the beach—relaxation and escapism.

I'm glad you like BGW now, but the fact that former Paramount-era KD fans now believe BGW is the palace to be is some of the best evidence I've seen yet to say that BGW and KD really, legitimately have switched places.

 

[warfelg]

Respectfully @MikeLovesKD, I'm glad you enjoy BGW now, but this statement spells out why your experience is so different from many in this thread:



People loved BGW because of the high quality, varied attraction selection featuring everything from great food to great rides to talented craftsmen to industry-leading shows to gorgeous botanical gardens to informative animal exhibits. Many of the reasons you look down on KD now and prefer BGW are the exact reasons why I have only been to BGW a handful of times since Pantheon opened.

I'm glad you like BGW now, but the fact that former Paramount-era KD fans now believe BGW is the palace to be is some of the best evidence I've seen yet to say that BGW is no longer a theme park.

The issue I have with BGW/BGT (or just SEAS as a whole) is this is easily salvageable within 5 years. But they clearly aren’t going that way.

Wanna say BfE is a bust because the ride system broke down and COVID makes the VR thing not be attractive? Fine. But instead of building DS, why not put money into a funhouse in that space and theme it to the magic (ie Leprechauns) of Ireland.

Want to say that DK was too expensive to run and didn’t have the ridership to make it worth upkeeping? Fine. But instead of investing in a coaster all the way down to the boneyard, put the money into making DarKoaster a Mummy like quality indoor coaster.

Use the extra money from scrapping those coasters to build out new eateries I offered up earlier. Freshen up much of what they already have by fixing broken things, fresh coats of paint on everything, work on flowerbeds and planting spots.

Lastly, I say embrace the fact that you are going to a mystical Europe type thought process in your name. Honor the old names of Busch Gardens: The Olde Country and Busch Gardens: Europe; ditch Busch Gardens Williamsburg and go with Busch Gardens: Old Mythical Europe.

 

[CoasterTalkBob]

I have heard shockingly low attendance numbers for the 4th of July weekend with the park below 50% capacity on the 4th it's self. I understand that SEA may be closely looking at possible diminishing returns from recent price hike and that small reversals may be coming by the end of summer.

This is the point that I've been worried about.... I don't think dropping the prices is going to help. The scale has been tipped and people aren't going to start coming back just because it's cheaper. The sour taste is there and it's going to take YEARS of hard work to improve the reputation of the park.

Looks like lower attendance isn't just a BGW issue...

"The issue is traffic, which appears to have worsened across theme parks last month, and especially for Six Flags."

Six Flags Stock Has Slumped. Why It Could Get Worse.

Six Flags stock was downgraded by Citi, which cited concerns about visitation trends and the impact of a possible recession.

www.barrons.com

Yea but Six Flags also jacked their prices up. The struggle is a little bit different though and could be helped by lower costs. SEAS has damaged their performance while SF jacked up their prices a ton without actually improving their performance. Cedar Fair has been crushing it with attendance (they've broken a record for their attendance for the year through the 4th of July weekend).

I've been to BGW enough times to understand how much it takes to run that park.

Don't think for a second that the majority of us in this thread haven't given BGW the benefit of the doubt. We aren't here bashing BGW because we hate the park and want it to die.... We are being hard on the park because we love the park and want it to survive. There is a point where you have to stop making excuses. Most of us here have been regulars at BGW through the last few years and you, on your own account, admit that you haven't been to the park since 2008. You seem to completely ignore the numerous people in this thread that have specifically said that a first timer may have a great experience with the newness of everything. Most of us understand how much it takes to run that park because we've seen it over the last few years and we've seen the huge disparity between the level of staffing then vs now. By your own admission it's absolutely impossible for you to have seen the staffing level changes from 3 years ago vs now.

 

[MikeLovesKD]

This is the point that I've been worried about.... I don't think dropping the prices is going to help. The scale has been tipped and people aren't going to start coming back just because it's cheaper. The sour taste is there and it's going to take YEARS of hard work to improve the reputation of the park.


Yea but Six Flags also jacked their prices up. The struggle is a little bit different though and could be helped by lower costs. SEAS has damaged their performance while SF jacked up their prices a ton without actually improving their performance. Cedar Fair has been crushing it with attendance (they've broken a record for their attendance for the year through the 4th of July weekend).


Don't think for a second that the majority of us in this thread haven't given BGW the benefit of the doubt. We aren't here bashing BGW because we hate the park and want it to die.... We are being hard on the park because we love the park and want it to survive. There is a point where you have to stop making excuses. Most of us here have been regulars at BGW through the last few years and you, on your own account, admit that you haven't been to the park since 2008. You seem to completely ignore the numerous people in this thread that have specifically said that a first timer may have a great experience with the newness of everything. Most of us understand how much it takes to run that park because we've seen it over the last few years and we've seen the huge disparity between the level of staffing then vs now. By your own admission it's absolutely impossible for you to have seen the staffing level changes from 3 years ago vs now.

True. When it comes to staffing, I have say that the park is well staffed. All venues are open as well as rides. Ride lines seem to move pretty quick on weekends when I went. How many more staff do you want inside the park. Do you experience slow service while waiting in line for food? Are you not able to get help inside of a gift shop? I'm even impressed by how quick the process is, getting people inside the park. I can't even say it was more than 15 minutes from the time I arrived, got on the tram and entered the front gates. That's pretty quick for a park that size.

 

[CoasterTalkBob]

True. When it comes to staffing, I have say that the park is well staffed. All venues are open as well as rides. Ride lines seem to move pretty quick on weekends when I went. How many more staff do you want inside the park. Do you experience slow service while waiting in line for food? Are you not able to get help inside of a gift shop? I'm even impressed by how quick the process is, getting people inside the park. I can't even say it was more than 15 minutes from the time I arrived, got on the tram and entered the front gates. That's pretty quick for a park that size.

There's A LOT more to proper staffing than having people in all positions at a given point in time. I think this is exactly why there are periodically really good days at BGW this year amongst a majority of absolutely terrible days. The same people can't work the park open to close every single day.