State of the Park

[AmyUD06]

Way to twist my words. I think you know perfectly well that’s not what I’m saying, and I’m certain that you (like everyone else) has been frustrated by the congestion caused by massive and unnecessary strollers, and scooter users who drive like it’s their first day on earth. There are 100% solutions to this problem

Please clarify what you meant by this, then:

You jest but some form of this being implemented would actually be a good thing in my opinion.

You are also capable of realizing that some of those people who "drive like its their first day on earth" may have mobility issues that affect their fine motor skills, and thus the ability to operate the scooter at all, right? Are you saying that they don't have a right to enjoy parks like the rest of able-bodied society? Just so you don't have to suffer the minor inconvenience of walking around them? Empathy is a good thing, y'know.

 

[DE_Creative]

Yes, of course I’m capable of that. Hopefully that also means you’re capable of realizing that this overcrowding of midways with both strollers and scooters (of which the majority are bad drivers with perfectly adequate fine motor skills - this is like blaming obscure disorders for half the US population being obese) present a real safety hazard in the event of both emergencies and everyday life, where, yes, if someone isn’t capable of not running into others they shouldn’t be renting scooters. I get park guests are often inconsiderate and it’s not easy to maneuver one, but the amount of times I’ve almost had my ankle run over by those machines through no fault of my own is concerning…

I will also add that for someone who values empathy this highly I’ve never seen a comment of yours here, directed at me or otherwise, that didn’t have snide remarks of moral superiority somewhere inside it

 

[AmyUD06]

Yes, of course I’m capable of that. Hopefully that also means you’re capable of realizing that this overcrowding of midways with both strollers and scooters (of which the majority are bad drivers with perfectly adequate fine motor skills - this is like blaming obscure disorders for half the US population being obese) present a real safety hazard in the event of both emergencies and everyday life, where, yes, if someone isn’t capable of not running into others they shouldn’t be renting scooters. I get park guests are often inconsiderate and it’s not easy to maneuver one, but the amount of times I’ve almost had my ankle run over by those machines through no fault of my own is concerning…

What do you propose as a solution then, because a blanket ban on all mobility scooters doesn't work? Some sort of license test to show you know how to operate one? Forcing people to disclose the details of the medical condition that requires them to use a mobility scooter?

Y'know, I used to feel the same way about ADA-pass users "cutting the line" by going up exits to coasters - "That's so unfair," "It doesn't look like they have anything wrong with them," etc. Then I realized that not every disability is visible, and if I'm inconvenienced by a slightly longer wait time, it's worth it if everyone else is able to enjoy these same things. Far too often people only think of their own situations and how things affect them - If everyone would accept a little inconvenience in their life for the benefit of others, society would be a better place.

In all of my park travels since getting serious about this hobby (dozens of park trips per year for the past ~10 years), I don't think I've "almost been bumped into" by someone in a mobility scooter more than once or twice. And you know what, if I get bumped into, big deal! The odds of you being seriously, or even minor-ly, injured by someone else operating a mobility scooter are minuscule. I can live with that inconvenience if it means more people get to experience parks.

Note that I mostly agree that large/strollers and pulled wagons have no place in parks, but I think a complete ban on those hurts more people than it helps, and I would never be in favor of a park enacting a ban on them.

I will also add that for someone who values empathy this highly I’ve never seen a comment of yours here, directed at me or otherwise, that didn’t have snide remarks of moral superiority somewhere inside it

You're not looking very hard, I don't think, because plenty of my comments here are without snide remarks. As for "moral superiority," I'll direct you to Karl Popper's "Paradox of Tolerance," which states that a tolerant society need not accept intolerant views within it - it works for empathy too. My empathy for those who are differently-abled does not preclude me from calling out views which espouse that certain portions of the population shouldn't be able to enjoy things that "everyone else" does.

Edit: spelling.

 

[DE_Creative]

What do you propose as a solution then, because a blanket ban on all mobility scooters doesn't work? Some sort of license test to show you know how to operate one? Forcing people to disclose the details of the medical condition that requires them to use a mobility scooter?

Y'know, I used to feel the same way about ADA-pass users "cutting the line" by going up exits to coasters - "That's so unfair," "It doesn't look like they have anything wrong with them," etc. Then I realized that not every disability is visible, and if I'm inconvenienced by a slightly longer wait time, it's worth it if everyone else is able to enjoy these same things. Far too often people only think of their own situations and how things affect them - If everyone would accept a little inconvenience in their life for the benefit of others, society would be a better place.

In all of my park travels since getting serious about this hobby (dozens of park trips per year for the past ~10 years), I don't think I've "almost been bumped into" by someone in a mobility scooter more than once or twice. And you know what, if I get bumped into, big deal! The odds of you being seriously, or even minor-ly, injured by someone else operating a mobility scooter are minuscule. I can live with that inconvenience if it means more people get to experience parks.

Note that I mostly agree that large/strollers and pulled wagons have no place in parks, but I think a complete ban on those hurts more people than it helps, and I would never be in favor of a park enacting a ban on them.



You're not looking very hard, I don't think, because plenty of my comments here are without snide remarks. As for "moral superiority," I'll direct you to Karl Popper's "Paradox of Tolerance," which states that a tolerant society need not accept intolerant views within it - it works for empathy too. My empathy for those who are differently-abled does not preclude me from calling out views which espouse that certain portions of the population shouldn't be able to enjoy things that "everyone else" does.

Edit: spelling.

Where did I advocate for a complete ban? I’ll give you a hint: I never did.

I’m exhausted (it’s 1:30am where I am) and not going to respond to all of your comment now, so I’ll just say that I believe you’d be better at getting people to both agree and have a dialogue with you if you let more nuance into the conversation. I’ve noticed it’s a common problem among our generation (assuming you’re as old as your username indicates), and that all-or-nothing mentality of viewing people as either “with me or against me” is tremendously harmful to discourse. It’s part of the reason we’re so politically polarized as a country and can’t have discourse like we used to, and you both view other peoples’ comments and respond to them through that lens, which I know your the University you seem to attend teaches you to do better than.

 

[Unagi]

I get park guests are often inconsiderate and it’s not easy to maneuver one, but the amount of times I’ve almost had my ankle run over by those machines through no fault of my own is concerning…

You know what I find concerning?

As someone who sometimes uses a mobility scooter at the parks due to an arthritic hip, I find it disturbing that perfectly healthy and able-bodied people are walking and running right into me when I'm parked around the boundary of the pathway because they're not paying attention to where they're going (heads turned while walking forward or focused on their mobile phones) and on two occasions I've been knocked out of vehicle from them falling over onto me while I'm seated.

 

[AmyUD06]

Where did I advocate for a complete ban? I’ll give you a hint: I never did.

I’m exhausted (it’s 1:30am where I am) and not going to respond to all of your comment now, so I’ll just say that I believe you’d be better at getting people to both agree and have a dialogue with you if you let more nuance into the conversation. I’ve noticed it’s a common problem among our generation (assuming you’re as old as your username indicates), and that all-or-nothing mentality of viewing people as either “with me or against me” is tremendously harmful to discourse. It’s part of the reason we’re so politically polarized as a country and can’t have discourse like we used to, and you both view other peoples’ comments and respond to them through that lens, which I know your the University you seem to attend teaches you to do better than.

Full disclosure, I'm in my early 40s; "06" is the year I graduated college. Ironically, when I was younger, I often thought like you do. As I've aged, and witnessed the patent inequity in society, I have grown to have no patience for those who want to harm others for their own benefit. But this isn't the place to debate your "both sides have merit" views - quite often, one side is very, very wrong and trying to force everyone to comply with their limited, backwards, regressive view of the world, which is very wrong in and of itself. There's no room for compromise with people like that. I'll leave it at that.

 

[richmondrider]

Surprised I haven't seen this posted here (or if it was, I missed it)..

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[DE_Creative]

Full disclosure, I'm in my early 40s; "06" is the year I graduated college. Ironically, when I was younger, I often thought like you do. As I've aged, and witnessed the patent inequity in society, I have grown to have no patience for those who want to harm others for their own benefit. But this isn't the place to debate your "both sides have merit" views - quite often, one side is very, very wrong and trying to force everyone to comply with their limited, backwards, regressive view of the world, which is very wrong in and of itself. There's no room for compromise with people like that. I'll leave it at that.

Once again, you ignore the nuance of my points and attack me for “wanting to harm others for my own benefit.” It’s frankly exhausting watching you immediately resort to politics and adopt this “one side vs the other” mentality when this is a topic that has a lot of room for discussion. I’m actually a very moderate person politically but of course that doesn’t matter to people like you, if I don’t 100% agree then I must be a bigoted caveman, right? My initial point was literally just that we need to do something about the excessive amount of scooters and strollers on midways and you’ve somehow twisted that into your imagination to make me an ableist, intolerant, MAGA person who wants to hurt others. That’s a little extreme for a topic where you could’ve just said “I understand where you’re coming from, here’s why I disagree but it’s a complicated topic,” right? This my way or the highway mentality is horrible and both extremes of US politics have it, and if you can’t see that at your advanced age then oh boy

 

[DE_Creative]

You know what I find concerning?

As someone who sometimes uses a mobility scooter at the parks due to an arthritic hip, I find it disturbing that perfectly healthy and able-bodied people are walking and running right into me when I'm parked around the boundary of the pathway because they're not paying attention to where they're going (heads turned while walking forward or focused on their mobile phones) and on two occasions I've been knocked out of vehicle from them falling over onto me while I'm seated.

I get park guests are often inconsiderate and it’s not easy to maneuver (one of those scooters)

In those instances those people deserve just as much blame for their lack of awareness. This isn’t that hard, and you’ll see I agreed with you in my message above (quoted here). Nuance, people

 

[Coasternerd]

So, the state of the park? It seems we have some more… strong opinions on the topic at hand. If that is something that should need to continue, create a thread for this topic in particular or move to DMs. If it continues to get more political, we have a politics thread for a reason, please use that.

 

[harry580]

I went to this thread and I saw the news regarding seaworld rule about scooters...wtf?

 

[Deleted member 12707]

Not my photos. These were provided to me by a good friend. That person likes to remain anonymous.

 

[GAcoaster]

The ban on seated walkers is a safety thing. People keep using them as wheel chairs and they end up falling out and hitting their heads. Those walkers are supposed to be used as walkers and then as stationary seats, not rolling seats. Every time one hits any unevenness in the pavement and there's a good chance that the person will end up on the concrete. All the park's are looking to ban them because they are not being used the way they were designed.

This whole controversy about it is a nothing. No one is discriminating against anyone, just trying to keep people safe.

 

[Ghost of Pretzel Kaiser]

I don’t think it’s a matter of discrimination, I think it’s a bad look. It’s worse since SWO charges more for their own accessibility rentals than other parks (which is a shitty thing to profit on in the first place).

 

[GAcoaster]

When it comes down to it, I don’t get why anyone rents a mobility device at any park— if you need a wheelchair or a scooter or a walker you should either own one or have rented one BEFORE you get to the parks. It’s unreasonable to always assume you can get one at a park. And if you can’t afford what you need, why are you spending money going to a theme park?

 

[Ghost of Pretzel Kaiser]

Ignoring the subtle implication that you don’t think those with physical disabilities should go to parks, I often rent scooters at the parks because of my specific disability or injuries in the past. I don’t own a wheelchair because I don’t need one in normal life. I might need one if I’m going to be walking miles within the confines of the park or have an injury. Renting through a third party is also only convenient if you have the ability to get the scooter to the park easily and the ones that are rentals don’t often break down for a standard car. If I’m staying at Uni or WDW and rent a scooter that’s delivered to me at the hotel, I’d have to pay out the ass (or wait hours) for accessible transportation method to get it to someplace off property.

 

[Zachary]

When it comes down to it, I don’t get why anyone rents a mobility device at any park— if you need a wheelchair or a scooter or a walker you should either own one or have rented one BEFORE you get to the parks. It’s unreasonable to always assume you can get one at a park. And if you can’t afford what you need, why are you spending money going to a theme park?

To be fair, Orlando is very tourist heavy (people with moderate mobility difficulties often don't travel with gear), the weather can be brutal (making mobility harder than average for some), and a day at an amusement park is probably the most walking many people do in a single day the entire year (people will have mobility issues in parks to a much greater degree than in their day to day lives).

Like handicap parking spaces, I believe parks should be required to offer a "reasonable" number of rental mobility devices to guests, but, like handicap parking spaces, there is a fixed number and if they run out on busy days, I don't think it's reasonable to criticize parks for that—particularly assuming they offer reserved bookings as all of the major parks do.

I also agree with @Ghost of Pretzel Kaiser re: profiteering off these rentals. This feels like the real scandal people should be sharpening their pitchforks and lightning their torches over. Threw this together just now:

	Wheelchair Rental	ECV Rental
Disney World	$12	$65
Universal	$15	$75
Legoland	$25	$85
SeaWorld	$40 to $45	$110 to $130

One of the parks on this list is clearly profiteering off their mobility rental program to a FAR greater degree than the others. Frankly, even the existence of dynamic pricing at all is an enormous, really shitty-looking red flag. Economies of scale benefit these programs. On busy days, these programs are already more profitable than on lighter days. Dynamic pricing based on demand in this case seems entirely predatory to me—really disgusting display of greed.

To be clear, I assume none of these parks' hands are clean—I assume all of these programs run with some profit margin—and though I think that margin should be minimal, I'm not going to ask parks to take a loss on these programs. That being said, the extent to which SeaWorld seems to legitimately be price gauging their handicap guests looks entirely exceptional in the FL park landscape to me. Super, SUPER gross behavior.

 

[DE_Creative]

When it comes down to it, I don’t get why anyone rents a mobility device at any park— if you need a wheelchair or a scooter or a walker you should either own one or have rented one BEFORE you get to the parks. It’s unreasonable to always assume you can get one at a park. And if you can’t afford what you need, why are you spending money going to a theme park?

Disagree. It’s a completely different level of difficulty walking 8 miles over a day in brutal humidity and heat than it is for most of these people and their typically far more sedentary lifestyles.

I’m with you that anyone who strolls up not thinking to reserve or check availability is dumb and entitled, but that’s another matter.

 

[GAcoaster]

Ignoring the subtle implication that you don’t think those with physical disabilities should go to parks, I often rent scooters at the parks because of my specific disability or injuries in the past. I don’t own a wheelchair because I don’t need one in normal life. I might need one if I’m going to be walking miles within the confines of the park or have an injury. Renting through a third party is also only convenient if you have the ability to get the scooter to the park easily and the ones that are rentals don’t often break down for a standard car. If I’m staying at Uni or WDW and rent a scooter that’s delivered to me at the hotel, I’d have to pay out the ass (or wait hours) for accessible transportation method to get it to someplace off property.

My implication is not people with disabilities shouldn’t go to the parks— my implication is people need to plan ahead. I see this constantly that people come to the parks and just expect that everywhere they go there will always be wheelchairs freely available. Several times I have seen people with disabilities show up only to find out the rentals are sold out.

I have worked in the parks for many years and I have seen parties with people with mobility issues in them get very upset because there just aren’t enough courtesy wheelchairs or rental wheel chairs. The parks can only do so much.

 

[Gavin]

DOJ opens investigation into SeaWorld Orlando, Busch Gardens Tampa Bay over rollator walker ban

The U.S. Department of Justice announced Tuesday that it is opening an investigation to figure out whether SeaWorld Orlando's recent policy change to ban rollator walkers with seats violated the Americans with Disabilities Act.

www.fox35orlando.com