Register or Login to Hide This Ad for Free!
Thank you for your bravery Adventure UP. I saw you daring not to glaze the Corporation before you deleted your post last night. Solidarity ✊
northdetective, I think the attitude in this post right here shows why your posts are drawing so many negative reactions. You’ve correctly pointed out that disagreement isn’t a bad thing, and that voicing one’s opinion should be welcomed on discussion boards. But that goes both ways. Not everyone voicing their excitement for this project is “glazing” the corporation - we don’t all have some ulterior motive to wax poetic about the company because we want to lick the Six Flags boot. Some of us are just excited about the project because we think the coaster sounds fun.

It just seems to me that you’re, ironically, dishing out the same behavior that you’re accusing others of: interpreting arguments in bad faith. By writing off disagreeing opinions as corporate glazing, you seem to be missing the very nuance that you (rather braggadociously, I think) profess to take pride in.
 
I know those who have frequented this thread since the beginning know this, but being that I say a lot of shit in here that may seem like it on paper to anyone newer to the site or who’s hopped in the thread since it started blowing up, it should be noted that nothing I say should be taken as dislike for Kingda Ka. While it’s my #26, there are few coasters I have a greater love for or connection to, and it’s by far the coaster I’ve been on the most.

Will I love the Mack tower as much in that sense? It’s a maybe right now, this is the closest I’ve followed a ride’s construction since Zumanjaro but I also don’t have the history I had with Ka behind it. That said, I’d be absolutely shocked if this isn’t ranked higher than Ka for me, and likely in my top 5, which hasn’t been the case for Ka for long enough that I had only been to Great Adventure, Clementon Park, and Storybook Land.

Loving a ride (or really anything) doesn’t mean you can’t be realistic about it or criticize it. Ka had a laundry list of reasons as to why it should’ve been removed, and yes, the lack of announcement absolutely sucked, but I get it given the ride’s unreliability and the possibility of Zumanjaro having structural issues. I’ve chosen to remain optimistic about the park’s future, because complacency is what put it in the position it’s currently in and I think it’s safe to say they’re far from that at this very moment.
 
northdetective, I think the attitude in this post right here shows why your posts are drawing so many negative reactions. You’ve correctly pointed out that disagreement isn’t a bad thing, and that voicing one’s opinion should be welcomed on discussion boards. But that goes both ways. Not everyone voicing their excitement for this project is “glazing” the corporation - we don’t all have some ulterior motive to wax poetic about the company because we want to lick the Six Flags boot. Some of us are just excited about the project because we think the coaster sounds fun.

It just seems to me that you’re, ironically, dishing out the same behavior that you’re accusing others of: interpreting arguments in bad faith. By writing off disagreeing opinions as corporate glazing, you seem to be missing the very nuance that you (rather braggadociously, I think) profess to take pride in.

northdetective, I think the attitude in this post right here shows why your posts are drawing so many negative reactions. You’ve correctly pointed out that disagreement isn’t a bad thing, and that voicing one’s opinion should be welcomed on discussion boards. But that goes both ways. Not everyone voicing their excitement for this project is “glazing” the corporation - we don’t all have some ulterior motive to wax poetic about the company because we want to lick the Six Flags boot. Some of us are just excited about the project because we think the coaster sounds fun.

It just seems to me that you’re, ironically, dishing out the same behavior that you’re accusing others of: interpreting arguments in bad faith. By writing off disagreeing opinions as corporate glazing, you seem to be missing the very nuance that you (rather braggadociously, I think) profess to take pride in.
I'm comfortable that the ratio of the number of my comments that carefully respond to what someone else is saying to the number of my comments that choose to dismiss others the way I am routinely dismissed is sufficiently high. Thank you 💜
 
It will be, but that would be any coaster ever.

Ryan Eldridge was very clear-eyed about this in that interview with @Coaster Chall. He talked about how it makes him uncomfortable when people refer to this attraction is a Ka replacement and the actual Ka replacement will be a long series of capital investments into the park over years to come, not one coaster.

I have long had this theory about "legendary" coasters—roller coasters whose prestige/reputation/legacy move far beyond simply that of other great rides and into this even more elevated state of notoriety amongst regional or even sometimes national audiences. In all my years following this industry, I have yet to see what I would classify as a "legendary" coaster be successfully replaced by a ride that was ruled a suitable replacement at the time of the replacement's opening.

One of the best parallels to Ka I can provide here is Kings Dominion's Volanco. Like Ka, Volcano was all over the Travel Channel specials back in its heyday; as with Ka, Volcano was used in all sorts of print media to depict the very idea of a roller coaster; and similarly to Ka, Volcano quite literally come to represent the park it was housed within and the very idea of a roller coaster in the minds of many, many people regionally, at minimum.

Like Ka, Volcano was also closed completely unceremoniously under what would be best described as questionable circumstances at best—and like Ka, not only did its destruction bring down the park's premier coaster, but it essentially killed an entire themed area of the park and took down one of the park's most iconic structures along with it.

As with Ka, I never thought Volcano was a spectacular coaster. It was a gimmicky ride with one crazy trick built to take some records, but the finished product became an icon—it, like Ka, was a truly legendary coaster.

Kings Dominion charted a pretty painful course in the wake of Volcano's closure. Tons of people—just look at responses to their social media posts during this period—felt the park was being neglected or even that the place was failing. Volcano's site sat dormant for years and the park made other, less flashy investments into culinary, theming, environmentals, etc. During this period, the high-thrill flat ride, Crypt, across from Volanco was also shuttered unexpectedly with zero notice provided. Again, another contribution to the "the park is failing" narrative.

Eventually Kings Dominion announced a coaster, a cloned 4D FreeSpin that wasn't even being built on Volanco's site—it was going over where Crypt previously was. General audiences hated this announcement—it was perceived as a Volcano replacement since it was the first coaster added in the wake of Volanco's removal and it was clearly nowhere near the quality of Volanco.

When Tumbili opened though, people did start to see something. Kings Dominion had set out on an enormous effort to massively retheme the entire area of the park around Tumbili with elaborate scenic, deep lore, great eateries, improved merchandise and stores, multiple smaller attraction rethemes, etc. Tumbili was whatever, but the park was building something far more impressive around Tumbili.

Fast-forward to Rapterra's announcement. It had been a good handful of years since Volcano's closure and along came a unique-but-really-not-jaw-dropping-looking B&M launched wing coaster. It was going to be a great addition to the park's lineup, sure, but it wasn't gonna revolutionize the park or anything. Once it opened, as with Tumbili, guests were again greeted with enormous thematic change—not just in the very well-presented Rapterra, but also spreading this new focus on consistent thematics to even more additional, near-by attractions.

Tumbili and Rapterra have both been compared very unfavorably against Volcano. Checking on Captain Coaster, Tumbili sits at #753, Rapterra sits at #406, and Volcano sits all the way up at #160. On paper it's clear: both coasters added in the near decade that has followed Volcano's closure have failed to replace Volcano. Even amongst thoosies, both are seen as massively inferior attractions. I'm positive general audiences have the same sentiment.

That being said, if you dropped someone into Safari Village at Kings Dominion in 2017 and asked them to rate the park experience of that quadrant of the park, I am confident the numbers would look abysmal. The rides were good, but the area was nonsensical, it was trashy, there was blacktop everywhere, the food sucked, the rides made zero sense together, there was minimal effort everywhere you turned—the only good, non-ride-hardware thing in the entire area was Volcano's mountain structure itself.

If you drop someone into Jungle X-Pedition today, you get a very, very different, dramatically more positive reaction.

Volcano's replacement was never Tumbili. It was never the smattering of ride rethemes. It was never the excellent eateries or the renovated shops. It was never the significantly improved guest experience. It was never the class-leading entertainment product, Let's Get Wild. It was never Rapterra. Volcano's replacement was the nearly 10 years of gradual iteration on and improvement upon an entire quadrant of Kings Dominion that occured in the wake of Volcano's destruction. Oh, and Kings Dominion likely still isn't done—the reverberations of Volcano's death will likely still cause more improvements to the area in the years ahead.

I prefer Volcano over any individual part of Jungle X. I think most people agree with that. Jungle X should be evaluated as a much larger undertaking though and I don't think I'm alone when I say that if you gave me the choice between Volcano and Safari Village as they existed in 2017 and Jungle X as it exists today, I'm picking Jungle X every time. In my assessment, the park is just dramatically better overall now because of that project.

I don't know if Phantom Spire is more akin to SFGAdv's Tumbili or its Rapterra, but perhaps both are poor comparisons. As I think I made a compelling case for many pages back, I believe Phantom Spire will likely settle in above Ka in the Captain Coaster rankings. Despite that though, due to Ka's status as a legendary coaster, I believe that in the minds of many locals, it will still be perceived as a lackluster replacement. Again, as I've made the case for previously in this thread, I don't believe there is any coaster that could realistically be built in the United States in 2027 by a traditional park operator which could immediately compete with the legendary status of Ka.

That said, if Ryan Eldridge is correct and this is the start of a long-term cap-ex schedule in which the park plans to emphasize theming, storytelling, aesthetics, guest experience, entertainment, culinary, etc alongside a strong focus on a bunch of new ride hardware, I am CONFIDENT that when offered the KD question posed above, SFGAdv folks will want to keep the SFGAdv of 2034 over trading it away to get the SFGAdv of 2024 back.

Six Flags is signaling and claiming all of the right things right now. All signs are currently pointing precisely to the KD turnaround playbook. If they do actually pull off the KD strategy, in 10 years, Ka's memory will be fading and the park will be in a dramatically better place than it is today.

I understand that SFGAdv locals are jaded. They've been screwed over for years, there's no doubt. I understand having a difficult time imagining what a decade+ long upward trajectory could look like at SFGAdv because it has been promised many times before and it has never materialized. I understand the skepticism. It is reasonable. Your feelings are justified. My own feelings of doubt and skepticism and disbelief at how foolish Kings Dominion's handling of Volcano were similarly understandable, justified, and reasonable back in 2018.

Now though, in 2026, I bring experience to this discussion. I have seen first-hand the path a park can successfully walk to redemption—even when its sins involve the destruction said park's single most iconic, beloved, and legendary attraction. Ka put Great Adventure on the map in the same way Volcano put Kings Dominion on the map—they're both now gone and that really fucking sucks—hell, in both of their cases, it may even been entirely unjustified. Regardless, there IS a path back—the miracle CAN be accomplished—and as someone who has lived through the successful running of that playbook—as someone who has VERY closely followed a park that has pulled it off—I tell you with 100% sincerity that SFGAdv is signaling in no uncertain terms that they see the same path KD has previously walked in SFGAdv's future.

It could all fail. The economy, society, leadership at the new Six Flags, etc—it's all fucked right now. And even if external factors don't derail the plans, any one of the tons of little decision points that will be required along the way could ultimately lead to failure. Hell, there's a good chance a fair dash of luck is required for the stars to align here too. I'm clear-eyed about all of this.

That said, the ABSOLUTE BEST thing we can hope for right now is for SFGAdv to be pointing themselves in the right direction and for there to be people at the table internally who see the potential of a true transformation of SFGAdv. Both of these things currently seem to be true in my assessment and, hence, I am happy to let them cook for now. When they make missteps—which they will—I'll be right here alongside you to criticize the corporation. I have no love for the publicly-traded mega-corporations that have seized control of the often-historic, beloved, important works of art dotted around our country we call amusement parks. That said, when a park is talking the right game and appears to be charting a course in-line with other parks that HAVE found success, dwelling on their past failures and criticizing the individual steps before they're even vertical seems entirely self-defeating.

Kind Zachary,

I do appreciate the thoughtful write-up.

If I'm honest, whatever plan I believe Six Flags is pretending to have about the future of the property seems to me to be self-defeating and a deliberate ploy to continue the cyclical decline in a way that positions the land favorably for medium-term reuse, but nobody is ready to talk about the clear incentive structures for doing so, including me, because My Truth Is So Inflammatory. I alluded to this very early on in my two-week tenure as a ParkFan:

I know I just joined today but if you think THOSE are the "out there" claims I have about Great Adventure then I have a lot more to post.

I will give everybody a break from me.
 
The issue with planning and the sometimes “seat of the pants” feeling is the outside factors.

I can only speak for the perspective of the township I worked in but we always had a 20 year master plan, which you can look at as the general outline of what’s going to happen. Where investment is going, what lands will see zoning changes, and the major thing would be structure of how development will happen. Then we have the 10 year plan which gives a little more detail such as what’s going to happen with different township owned lands, how different major investments will roll out. Then we have our shortest 3 year plan, which is as close to set as you can get.

The big part of why those plans have to be fluid is you never know what the land is actually going to bring you. How well did the infrastructure that’s there hold up? They about the infrastructure near it? How are different studies going to impact what you want to do to a space?

Taking this to the perspective of a park:
Both Ka and GL were ending the near end of their life cycles. Obviously something happened with the manufacturing and shipment of the new coaster that delayed its construction. The unfortunate part of the whole project here is that they were unable to make one of Ka, GL, or the flats around it last another season or two as a bridge to new construction.

So what it looks like to fans is a poorly planned out update to the park, was likely actually well planned except for the unexpected. Given the coaster going in is replacing Ka, I wouldn’t be shocked if we discover or it’s known that GL was a little unexpected in it’s removal (I haven’t been following that closely to the removals part TBH).

The end reality is the infrastructure of parks are extremely complicated and aren’t done without years of prior planning to develop anything. As much as we think we’re following projects closely, we have no idea how many iterations of plans they went through, how many studies they did ahead of time, and how the survey’s parks send out impact the longer term decision making.

But the end of the day, anything can impact plans no matter how well you structure everything. Tariffs, FAA, township planning, infrastructure issues, site planning all likely had HUGE impacts on why this was delayed and looks like a “sudden decision without planning”. And we’ll likely never know the extent those items impacted the outcome.
 
The issue with planning and the sometimes “seat of the pants” feeling is the outside factors.

I can only speak for the perspective of the township I worked in but we always had a 20 year master plan, which you can look at as the general outline of what’s going to happen. Where investment is going, what lands will see zoning changes, and the major thing would be structure of how development will happen. Then we have the 10 year plan which gives a little more detail such as what’s going to happen with different township owned lands, how different major investments will roll out. Then we have our shortest 3 year plan, which is as close to set as you can get.

The big part of why those plans have to be fluid is you never know what the land is actually going to bring you. How well did the infrastructure that’s there hold up? They about the infrastructure near it? How are different studies going to impact what you want to do to a space?

Taking this to the perspective of a park:
Both Ka and GL were ending the near end of their life cycles. Obviously something happened with the manufacturing and shipment of the new coaster that delayed its construction. The unfortunate part of the whole project here is that they were unable to make one of Ka, GL, or the flats around it last another season or two as a bridge to new construction.

So what it looks like to fans is a poorly planned out update to the park, was likely actually well planned except for the unexpected. Given the coaster going in is replacing Ka, I wouldn’t be shocked if we discover or it’s known that GL was a little unexpected in it’s removal (I haven’t been following that closely to the removals part TBH).

The end reality is the infrastructure of parks are extremely complicated and aren’t done without years of prior planning to develop anything. As much as we think we’re following projects closely, we have no idea how many iterations of plans they went through, how many studies they did ahead of time, and how the survey’s parks send out impact the longer term decision making.

But the end of the day, anything can impact plans no matter how well you structure everything. Tariffs, FAA, township planning, infrastructure issues, site planning all likely had HUGE impacts on why this was delayed and looks like a “sudden decision without planning”. And we’ll likely never know the extent those items impacted the outcome.
This ^^^

Nobody has to like the corporate owners and park managers or think they're doing a good job, but we don't have to assume they're stumbling around in the dark making it up as they go along every day either. Sadly that wasn't always the case. The way the ride removals and new coaster timeline have played out involves a lot of outside factors beyond the park's control, some we've heard or figured out, and maybe others we'll never know. And this is where we're all frustrated, because we're in the dark and left with just what they say (and don't say), which leads them to look like they're making the same old short-sighted decisions without a plan as the last era of ownership. The communication is where they've dropped the ball and have to do better, which it seems is why Ryan has been brought in. As much as they have a state-of-the-park problem, they have an equally significant PR problem. I see reasons to be hopeful whatever happens with the coming additions/renovations to the park, it won't be like it was before on many fronts. And imo we should judge the park and decisions on their own terms, not what happened before with other owners and managers. Whether it works out to make a better park experience we'll be the judges. ✌️
 
Last edited:
The communication is where they've dropped the ball and have to do better, which it seems is why Ryan has been brought in. As much as they have a state-of-the-park problem, they have an equally significant PR problem.
Amen. A good PR person and marketing department can smooth over a lot in these situations. And you don’t even need Disney level D23 showing off the future.

SFGAdv dropping a good “we heard you, we’re working on this, pardon our dust while we bring you a whole new experience” without saying what’s actually coming or what changes are being made is so powerful.
 
Amen. A good PR person and marketing department can smooth over a lot in these situations. And you don’t even need Disney level D23 showing off the future.

SFGAdv dropping a good “we heard you, we’re working on this, pardon our dust while we bring you a whole new experience” without saying what’s actually coming or what changes are being made is so powerful.
Exactly. I suggested a good-things-are-coming message a few weeks ago would just be so easy and go a long way if it was done consistently. We all understand specifics can only be announced at the right time, but they can throw parkgoers a bone vs silence. Tease positive changes, additions, and upgrades to boost ticket and pass sales, for heaven's sake! 🤪
 
If I'm honest, whatever plan I believe Six Flags is pretending to have about the future of the property seems to me to be self-defeating and a deliberate ploy to continue the cyclical decline in a way that positions the land favorably for medium-term reuse, but nobody is ready to talk about the clear incentive structures for doing so, including me, because My Truth Is So Inflammatory. I alluded to this very early on in my two-week tenure as a ParkFan:
If I get this correct, you think they plan to sell the property. Taking a page from SFA, the first step is to not build any new structures that are impractical to move (coasters) for 20 years. Clearly this is not the case.
 
i am really hopeful for the future of this park and what it can be, i just worry that the last decade and a half of mismanagement, culminating with the 50th Anniversary + KK fiasco, has severely damaged the reputation of the park beyond a point that can be recovered to where it was. just living in the area, there's a fairly universal feeling among everyone i talk to who isn't super deep in this world of theme parks that SF has become a shell of it's former self and not worth the insane cost of bringing a family there for a day, let alone buying passes. i hope that new management is as dedicated as they appear to be at rehabbing this park's image and rep starting with this addition.
 
i just worry that the last decade and a half of mismanagement, culminating with the 50th Anniversary + KK fiasco, has severely damaged the reputation of the park beyond a point that can be recovered to where it was.
It hasn’t. The park has been in far worse positions in the past, and rebounded from its worst by becoming the first SF park to hit 4m guests in a year. It took time, and it’ll take time again, but this park is far from beyond rejuvenation.
 
If I get this correct, you think they plan to sell the property. Taking a page from SFA, the first step is to not build any new structures that are impractical to move (coasters) for 20 years. Clearly this is not the case.


I don't think Six Flags' "brand strength" in NJ is very strong right now, which isn't great paired with the fact that corporate was very clear the parks must respond to investment to not be considered disposable. I don't predict a strong positive response to replacing 10 closed rides with one shuttle coaster personally.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot 2026-02-03 141603.png
    Screenshot 2026-02-03 141603.png
    141.4 KB · Views: 310
Last edited:

I don't think Six Flags' "brand strength" in NJ is very strong right now, which isn't great paired with the fact that corporate was very clear the parks must respond to investment to not be considered disposable. I don't predict a strong positive response to replacing 10 closed rides with one shuttle coaster personally.
You do realize Ryan said in his interview that there are rides, as in multiple, on the way? Can you at least be factual if you’re gonna doom post?
 
I don't think we should be linearly comparing "brand strength" to people's approval of the park's recent decisions. They tore down Kingda Ka, and people who don't follow amusement parks heard about it. That, Siren's Curse, the pendulum ride snapping in half in SA, and Falcons Flight are the only theme park news stories I've heard from non enthusiasts in my life in the past year. Dorney Park got Iron Menace, and I didn't hear a peep from Tri-State area people. Kingda Ka gets imploded and people are talking about it. To me that's brand strength. People are talking about the park. The real question is if the 2027 coaster will be able to break into the regular news cycle/for you pages, and I think that will be a good indicator of the park's actual brand strength.

I obviously don't have experience in a theme park corporate setting, but if I were involved in the park decisions I would be putting a hefty investment into the park, and then carefully monitoring how that affects attendance. If the 2027 season shows decent growth then I keep investing to capitalize on that momentum, otherwise I start to look at shifting my strategy.
 
You do realize Ryan said in his interview that there are rides, as in multiple, on the way? Can you at least be factual if you’re gonna doom post?
Where is the falsehood? They can be on their way as much as they want but that doesn't mean the financial return or reputational improvement is any better for this past or this next season. And when improvements do come, I've repeatedly said I believe they'll be too little too late, which Six Flags acknowledges the possibility of because they're not swayed by the sunk thoosie fallacy and openly state the parks MUST respond to the investments they make.

I've already addressed the fact that Eldredge may or may not be misrepresenting the tower spinner's length. I don't trust him any more about future additions than I already do about this upcoming one.
 
Six Flags will never publish a park-to-park breakdown of financial performance (as much as we'd like them to as it leads to some *ahem* loose interpretations of what "performance" means).

But I'd eat my hat if we'd ever see them choose to close SFGAdv in a similar fashion to SFA to make the land ready for resale. Completely dismissing the "performance" aspect of it - have you seen the surrounding area? There's NOTHING there. There's NO demand for anything there. In fact, there's a very public fallout between the developer of Adventure Crossing NEXT DOOR and the township when they tried to shift the plans over to add in a bunch of residential housing instead of their initial plans.
 
Six Flags will never publish a park-to-park breakdown of financial performance (as much as we'd like them to as it leads to some *ahem* loose interpretations of what "performance" means).

But I'd eat my hat if we'd ever see them choose to close SFGAdv in a similar fashion to SFA to make the land ready for resale. Completely dismissing the "performance" aspect of it - have you seen the surrounding area? There's NOTHING there. There's NO demand for anything there. In fact, there's a very public fallout between the developer of Adventure Crossing NEXT DOOR and the township when they tried to shift the plans over to add in a bunch of residential housing instead of their initial plans.
I mean you said it yourself. Huge swaths of protected pinelands and a RAPIDLY growing local population make it very appealing and profitable to reuse commercial/industrial properties for high-density housing. Jackson has already seen strife with their zoning laws recently and has been sued into not only compliance but paying punitive damages as well. There is limited capacity to regulate zoning decisions and that is as much as I will say.
 
Last edited:
I really don't know where you're seeing Jackson or any of the surrounding areas leading the charge in a "rapid" growth rate that would lead to the most viable residential expansion project being the conversion of the largest by-area regional theme park into housing versus literally any other option.

If Adventure Crossing can rip out all those trees and build next to nothing in its place, then anyone can.
 
Last edited:
I really don't know where you're seeing Jackson or any of the surrounding areas leading the charge in a "rapid" growth rate that would lead to the most viable residential expansion project being the conversion of the largest by-area regional theme park into housing versus literally any other option.

If Adventure Crossing can rip out all those trees and build next to nothing in its place, then anyone can.
The fourth-most-populous municipality in the state is directly east of Jackson. It was the seventh-most-populous in 2010, and the the 22nd-most-populous in 2000. You must not be local if the zoning controversies in neighboring communities (specifically Jackson) have escaped your notice.
 
  • Eye-Roll
Reactions: desardes
Consider Donating to Hide This Ad