News Project 2027/Purple: Delayed “World Record Breaking Coaster" (Phantom Spire?)

[DWNitro]

No matter what, this will always be in the shadow of KA in some form. It could be 500ft tall and 20 MPH faster, but in the end, it was the way it was all carried out that stings the most. Even the GP noticed which is rare, ha.

At the very least, SF would be wise to have a plaque or some other thoughtful marker of the impact KA had as a record holder and a memory for millions. Interplay of the story of that ride and whatever this is would be pretty special IMO. But to build this and forget KA every happened in this location is a missed opportunity to showcase the power of the park and its ideas as the years go on.

I feel like not acknowledging past fan favorite rides as much is a missed area of opportunity for the park for sure. It’d be cool if they had pieces of track/old signs for the rides on display and maybe some new merch for Ka, GASM, and Rolling Thunder

 

[northdetective]

No matter what, this will always be in the shadow of KA in some form. It could be 500ft tall and 20 MPH faster, but in the end, it was the way it was all carried out that stings the most. Even the GP noticed which is rare, ha.

At the very least, SF would be wise to have a plaque or some other thoughtful marker of the impact KA had as a record holder and a memory for millions. Interplay of the story of that ride and whatever this is would be pretty special IMO. But to build this and forget KA every happened in this location is a missed opportunity to showcase the power of the park and its ideas as the years go on.

This year I got to Great Escape for the first time and was crushed to have missed not just a rare bobsled, but THE Sarajevo Bobsled from Great Adventure, by a year.

But the subtle homage to its predecessor in choosing the name Bobcat for the new coaster is cute, and the shrine they erected to the Alpine Bobsled made me feel a lot better about having missed the credit. It's a great physical manifestation of goodwill toward the customer base and an acknowledgment of history. I hope Great Adventure considers something similar, though it would always ring somewhat hollow due to the unceremonious end.

 

[Bring Back Questor 87]

This year I got to Great Escape for the first time and was crushed to have missed not just a rare bobsled, but THE Sarajevo Bobsled from Great Adventure, by a year.

But the subtle homage to its predecessor in choosing the name Bobcat for the new coaster is cute, and the shrine they erected to the Alpine Bobsled made me feel a lot better about having missed the credit. It's a great physical manifestation of goodwill toward the customer base and an acknowledgment of history. I hope Great Adventure considers something similar, though it would always ring somewhat hollow due to the unceremonious end.

View attachment 40961

THIS. ^^^

BGW does this in some form for its rides, SF can and should too.

 

[michaellynn4]

If it helps at all, I managed to make it there a few years ago and was crushed to learn just how crappy that coaster was. Barely got out of that sled without braking an ankle.

I get it, though, it sucks. I missed the Wild Mouse at BPB by one year, too.

 

[Zachary]

If they use structure height instead of track height for advertising the new ride I’m going to be very grumpy. 400’ structure with 375’ of track on it does not a strata coaster make.

This.

We're already gonna have big gray area questions if the track is just over 400 (say 410) feet above grade and only a small part of the train actually makes it over the 400ft line. If no part of the train crosses 400ft, that's just plainly not a strata though and I'll die on that hill.

Somewhat reasonable minds can disagree on whether or not the drop needs to be 400ft in total elevation change experienced to count (my position is that drop is obviously how we should classify coaster heights, but Cedar Fair has already staked their position on the other side of this argument with the records they've historically claimed at Cedar Point), but if riders don't make it to 400ft above grade and Six Flags tries to market it as a strata, I'll be first in line to give 'em hell.

Ideally, would it be taller than Dragster to take the generic North American height and speed records? Certainly. Do I think post-Cedar Fair merger Six Flags is likely to give Dragster's North American records away? Probably not. Classic Cedar Fair Ohio supremacy behavior. Ride experience-wise, the difference between 410 and 430 is almost surely negotiable so I'm not gonna be bothered if Phantom Spire is a little under Top Thrill vs a little over. Happy with the only strata spinner in the world for sure.

That said, if it's not a strata, I will be very disappointed. Not because the ride experience is likely to feel much different between 390 and 410, but because blowing up one of the only stratas ever built and replacing it with something that isn't in that same height class will feel wrong to me—and if they're anywhere near 400 anyway and they don't opt to spent the couple million that may be required more to cross that line, it will be a definite miss in my book.

 

[Bring Back Questor 87]

This.

We're already gonna have big gray area questions if the track is just over 400 (say 410) feet above grade and only part of the train actually makes it over the 400ft line. If no part of the train crosses 400ft, that's just plainly not a strata though and I'll die on that hill.

Somewhat reasonable minds can disagree on whether or not the drop needs to be 400ft in total elevation change experienced to count (my position is that drop is obviously how we should classify coasters, but Cedar Fair has already staked their position on the other side of this argument with the records they've historically claimed at Cedar Point), but if riders don't make it to 400ft above grade and Six Flags tries to market it as a strata, I'll be first in line to give 'em hell.

Ideally, would it be taller than Dragster to take the generic North American height and speed records? Certainly. Do I think post-Cedar Fair merger Six Flags is likely to give Dragster's North American records away? Probably not. Classic Cedar Fair Ohio supremacy behavior. Ride experience-wise, the difference between 410 and 430 is almost surely negotiable so I'm not gonna be bothered if Phantom Spire is a little under Top Thrill vs a little over. Happy with the only strata spinner in the world for sure.

That said, if it's not a strata, I will be very disappointed. Not because the ride experience is likely to feel much different between 390 and 410, but because blowing up one of the only stratas ever built and replacing it with something that isn't in that same height class will feel wrong to me—and if they're anywhere near 400 anyway and they don't opt to spent the couple million that may be required more to cross that line, it will be a definite miss in my book.

I'll bet $1000 right now, the coaster train will make it up to 370-5 feet max, 30 feet for a "buffer."

SF - don't make this a differently-manufactured but worse take on a Wicked Twister spike experience, but at a new height with spinning trains and a lighthouse theme.

 

[Adventure UP]

This.

We're already gonna have big gray area questions if the track is just over 400 (say 410) feet above grade and only part of the train actually makes it over the 400ft line. If no part of the train crosses 400ft, that's just plainly not a strata though and I'll die on that hill.

Somewhat reasonable minds can disagree on whether or not the drop needs to be 400ft in total elevation change experienced to count (my position is that drop is obviously how we should classify coasters, but Cedar Fair has already staked their position on the other side of this argument with the records they've historically claimed at Cedar Point), but if riders don't make it to 400ft above grade and Six Flags tries to market it as a strata, I'll be first in line to give 'em hell.

Ideally, would it be taller than Dragster to take the generic North American height and speed records? Certainly. Do I think post-Cedar Fair merger Six Flags is likely to give Dragster's North American records away? Probably not. Classic Cedar Fair Ohio supremacy behavior. Ride experience-wise, the difference between 410 and 430 is almost surely negotiable so I'm not gonna be bothered if Phantom Spire is a little under Top Thrill vs a little over. Happy with the only strata spinner in the world for sure.

That said, if it's not a strata, I will be very disappointed. Not because the ride experience is likely to feel much different between 390 and 410, but because blowing up one of the only stratas ever built and replacing it with something that isn't in that same height class will feel wrong to me—and if they're anywhere near 400 anyway and they don't opt to spent the couple million that may be required more to cross that line, it will be a definite miss in my book.

I agree with you! Like if they are going to spend over 50 million on a 400 foot coaster why not make it 57 ft taller and make it taller than KA. From a marketing prospective, this would truly help selling this coaster to the public if it’s “taller than Ka” and would not cost that much more to make it 60ft or so taller (if this even is going to be around 400 ft). KA was the world’s tallest coaster that’s what made it famous to the GP. If the replacement coaster is much shorter than it will be seen as a downgrade!

 

[MrBradferd]

Superman was never a real strata either then right? Since the train never went 400ft and the whole launch track was like 30 or 40ft higher than the bottom of the tower to ground

 

[the_pantsmith]

Missed the potential name leak when it happened, been a bit preoccupied with basketball as my 1A interest rn (Wahoowa).

I’ll say as a piece of positivity, I love the potential name and a lighthouse theme would be so cool, especially if the station will be on the boardwalk. Someone mentioned they want more Jersey Devil type themes in Great Adventure. I think it’s pretty evident SF has realized people don’t go to their parks for the IPs and they can save that money and spend it on theming. I’d love for them to either limit DC theming to their own sections or remove the IP from their parks all together. Makes me all the more glad CF is essentially in charge here.

Also another plug for my idea to paint
Superman blue and call it Kite Surfer or Wind Surfer

 

[sharpr1]

I agree with you! Like if they are going to spend over 50 million on a 400 foot coaster why not make it 57 ft taller and make it taller than KA. From a marketing prospective, this would truly help selling this coaster to the public if it’s “taller than Ka” and would not cost that much more to make it 60ft or so taller (if this even is going to be around 400 ft). KA was the world’s tallest coaster that’s what made it famous to the GP. If the replacement coaster is much shorter than it will be seen as a downgrade!

I figure if they're gonna claim the height record as part of the "multi-record-breaking coaster" tease, it'll be 420' + 1-10' to top TT2 for the NA record. Maybe they'll wimp out because of CF bias. When Ryan said "bigger" than Ka, I guess the overall ride could be semantically argued in various ways that it's "bigger" than Ka. We definitely know that the only way it's gonna be "longer" than Ka, which was also claimed, is to count distance-traveled, not track-length. So they're already going to be getting literal and technical to claim the records.

 

[Great Adventurer]

I agree with you! Like if they are going to spend over 50 million on a 400 foot coaster why not make it 57 ft taller and make it taller than KA. From a marketing prospective, this would truly help selling this coaster to the public if it’s “taller than Ka” and would not cost that much more to make it 60ft or so taller (if this even is going to be around 400 ft). KA was the world’s tallest coaster that’s what made it famous to the GP. If the replacement coaster is much shorter than it will be seen as a downgrade!

Even incremental height increases can be very pricey at elevations of 400 feet +, but from a pure statistical perspective, I'm sure a decent percentage of the GP will hear about the height and immediately think downgrade. It's a shame, because the tower will be impressive in its own right no matter what, but it'll be hard to avoid comparisons to its predecessor.

I'm going into this thinking the train may not hit the 400 ft mark. The buffer zone of the track will reach that height, sure, but until it's confirmed otherwise I'm going to temper my expectations, purely to save myself from any disappointment. SFEC will be able to claim it as a strata based on track alone and that'll probably be good enough for them.

There's a post quite a ways back lamenting that most passengers likely won't be experiencing the highest point on the ride, and I have to agree with that too. It's the nature of the design, but I still don't like the idea of riders potentially feeling a little "Cheated" if they don't sit in the front car.

 

[RDL]

Superman was never a real strata either then right? Since the train never went 400ft and the whole launch track was like 30 or 40ft higher than the bottom of the tower to ground

Superman’s trains maybe went a little more than half the height of the structure. If we’re dealing with a similar thing here that’d be a disaster.

 

[Zachary]

Pretty sure it was said somewhere in the last 107 pages- but I believe(d) this would claim the North American height record by a few feet.

426 feet tall with a 126mph top speed was the rumor that was posted and then deleted in this thread a while back I believe. I definitely worry that a 450 foot crane isn't going to get us much-if-anything at or above 426 feet so, if that rumor was accurate, maybe it was structure height, not ride height...?

If the survey concept was ever and is still design-accurate and if the height rumor is true and if it's actually the structure height (ignoring the flagpole), I think this entire train is probably over 400ft above grade?



Whether or not this beats Dragster really may come down to whether you care about the max height above grade reached by any part of a train/any rider aboard the train, the max height above grade reached by the midpoint of the train/the average rider on the train, or the height above grade reached by the entirety of the train/all riders on the train.

That question is totally unresolved in this industry IMO.

 

[northdetective]

There's a post quite a ways back lamenting that most passengers likely won't be experiencing the highest point on the ride, and I have to agree with that too. It's the nature of the design, but I still don't like the idea of riders potentially feeling a little "Cheated" if they don't sit in the front car.

Personally my concern is not whether all riders experience the same height but rather whether all riders will get to experience the outer-banked turn, which looks like no if the survey renders were accurate. In a layout with so few elements it will definitely be a bummer if one is experienced by riders in the front 2 cars only.

Glad to see everybody dipping their toes into realistic pessimism! The grass is always browner here

 

[mkj3322]

It would actually be pretty cool if it reaches the top as rendered above, but I can't see that being even remotely feasible.

 

[northdetective]

It would actually be pretty cool if it reaches the top as rendered above, but I can't see that being even remotely feasible.

Why not? Its predecessor Timmy's Halfpipe Havoc accelerates right up to the dead ends of the track

 

[desardes]

It would actually be pretty cool if it reaches the top as rendered above, but I can't see that being even remotely feasible.

They very well could start that element lower so all cars experience it and just have the 'extra' track past that continue the same bank angle.

Thinking on it, that element might be cooler just below the apex so you're going slow up/down through the outer banked turn.

 

[AmyUD06]

Glad to see everybody dipping their toes into realistic pessimism! The grass is always browner here

Why not? Its predecessor Timmy's Halfpipe Havoc accelerates right up to the dead ends of the track

You recognize that the salient, valid points you often make just get degraded and nullified when you say such wildly outlandish things like these two, right? This right here is (part of) why people have such a difficult time taking you seriously.

 

[GASM]

I feel like not acknowledging past fan favorite rides as much is a missed area of opportunity for the park for sure. It’d be cool if they had pieces of track/old signs for the rides on display and maybe some new merch for Ka, GASM, and Rolling Thunder

Rolling Thunder easily has the greatest presence of any defunct coaster in the park’s history. The Xploratorium is larger in scale for Chiller (and prior to Justice League, Chiller easily would’ve won with its station lasting like a decade longer than the ride), but RT still has the segment under Toro and its trains pop up surprisingly often for a ride that’s been gone for nearly 13 years.

Does anyone know if the stars outside Daily Planet are still there? I’d love to see them expand upon that idea, always made sure to pay the GASM star a visit when I walked past. Staying in Movietown would make sense, but being placed a bit more prominently, increased in size, and removing the stars for operating rides and giving one to each defunct coaster + adding noteworthy flats would be pretty damn cool.

 

[kmaster805]

Are they able to move the crane around? or is it required to stay in one place?
(I know thats not where the main tower is but if they're using this crane for the tower and thats where its going, i dont see this being over 370 feet tall, unless they decided to rent a crawler crane, which is possible.)