News Project 2027/Purple: Delayed “World Record Breaking Coaster" (Phantom Spire?)

[italianstallion]

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You know that’s a great question and I can’t honestly come up with a good answer. If I had been the one in charge I wouldn’t even taken the risk. My assumption is that they just fell in love with the design of the ride and didn’t even consider how tariffs could come into play.

It makes sense that the people who weren’t smart enough to see the tariffs coming were also the ones who fell in love with a Mack spinner shuttle.

If Six Flags was’t able to fast track production of an entire roller coaster before Inauguration Day (which, by the way is completely understandable) then maybe they should’ve figured out a short term plan with the assets they already had in place. Our company went on a buying spree for parts and retail items from October through January, and I personally adjusted my spending habits to ensure the best possible financial position for my family. I can buy people not seeing the tariffs coming before the election, but after November 4 there was no excuse.

 

[warfelg]

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It makes sense that the people who weren’t smart enough to see the tariffs coming were also the ones who fell in love with a Mack spinner shuttle.

If Six Flags was’t able to fast track production of an entire roller coaster before Inauguration Day (which, by the way is completely understandable) then maybe they should’ve figured out a short term plan with the assets they already had in place. Our company went on a buying spree for parts and retail items from October through January, and I personally adjusted my spending habits to ensure the best possible financial position for my family. I can buy people not seeing the tariffs coming before the election, but after November 4 there was no excuse.

Well, you got the issue of so many of these parts being custom that impacts this. Even if they knew then what the tariffs would be, what would get tariffed, how much, etc, there’s a chance manufacturers got so overloaded with orders they wouldn’t be able to get them out before tariffs hit.

My wife and I both work in fields impacted by the tariffs (import beer and golf equipment) and I can tell you the constant changing of tariff amounts, random countries getting pauses, the off on nature, the random exemptions of what’s tariffed - this has caused mass chaos and we still are trying to understand what is impacted.

So I disagree with this statement that post election into inauguration that companies should have reacted. Because they couldn’t. The fact that two uninhabited islands still have tariffs on them shows how chaotic this situation is.

 

[GAcoaster]

I really think they were desperate didn’t realize how bad things were at Great Adventure until after the deal closed. It required drastic cost cutting after those years of neglect. They probably could have staggered out some of the removals over one more season, but felt it was better to bite the bullet and do it all at once.

 

[fingerblaster22]

You know that’s a great question and I can’t honestly come up with a good answer. If I had been the one in charge I wouldn’t even taken the risk. My assumption is that they just fell in love with the design of the ride and didn’t even consider how tariffs could come into play.

They fell in love with a tower they are going to try to pass off as a KA replacement. I would be stunned if the new coaster, if a Mack tower, isn't called something like Revenge of Kindga Ka. General public will be like "oh yea, that tower is Kingda Ka".

 

[Nitro230]

They fell in love with a tower they are going to try to pass off as a KA replacement. I would be stunned if the new coaster, if a Mack tower, isn't called something like Revenge of Kindga Ka. General public will be like "oh yea, that tower is Kingda Ka".

Then my question is what was the answer? They tasked themselves with the impossible, replace the one of the most iconic roller coasters of all time. You build a giga whats the response going to be “I can’t believe they only replaced Kingda Ka with a bigger version of Nitro” anthing under 200 feet and they’ll complain it’s not tall enough. They don’t have falcons flight money…..what on earth were they going to replace Ka with? I was critical of the decision at first, and still think intamin could’ve renovated Ka and done a better job (but that clearly was off the table and after top thrill 2 I can’t blame them), but I’ve slowly come to realization that this might’ve been the best option

 

[GASM]

I’ve slowly come to realization that this might’ve been the best option

Removing Ka, long term, will likely end up being one of the best financial decisions they’ve made since the turn of the millennium. It didn’t have the popularity to justify the cost of operation, despite what a very vocal and terminally online subreddit and Facebook group would have you think.

I’m also so exhausted by the absolute hatred of the spinner tower. If this was going to any other park, thoosies would be shitting themselves at the idea of the first strata in over 20 years, the world’s first inverted launch, and the fact that it’s a spinning coaster being the icing on the cake. I do understand concerns about it being a shuttle in terms of capacity, especially after the previous coaster was also a shuttle, but I feel like it’s a safe guess that their new flagship attraction would have a turntable, switch track, etc, and I also truthfully believe that most complaining about it being a shuttle are just bandwagoning and don’t actually know why they dislike it.

The other main complaint I’ve seen is that the strata spinner would just be a gimmick. Because, y’know, that’s not exactly what Ka was lol.

 

[Zachary]

Yeah, I was about to type exactly what @GASM said. The shuttle straddle spinner was probably one of the best, if not the absolute best, "in-kind-Ka-replacement" we could have reasonably hoped for out of Six Flags. Really hope this doesn't end up being a situation where taking the one in the hand was probably better than delaying everything to potentially get two in the bush.

Ironically, we've sorta seen that happen at Busch Gardens Williamsburg. Wolf's Revenge is great and all for what it is, but BGW was completely setup to build a giga shuttle launch coaster (Drachen Spire), they canned it, tried to stretch to a hyper hybrid to satiate the fans, and then that fell through entirely leaving Williamsburg with a B&M family invert in its place. A lot of people would likely tell you today that Drachen Spire, in hindsight, looks like a far more appropriate Drachen Fire replacement and a better utilization of the land broadly than Wolf's Revenge ended up being. Really hoping history doesn't repeat itself in New Jersey.

 

[Great Adventurer]

It's indisputable that the Kingda Ka removal will save a boatload of money. However, I'd argue that ridership wasn't the only measure of popularity in this (admittedly pretty isolated) case. People are naturally drawn to architectural wonders: huge skyscrapers, unique shapes, or just general landmarks - I've never understood the allure of that Bean in Chicago, but people adore it and go out of their way to say they saw it. I would put Ka in the same boat. There are plenty of folks who'd never ride it (or ride it once just to say they did), but they'd make sure to still get their photo with/of the world's tallest roller coaster. A tangible record breaker can be a magnet for more than just thrill seekers.

This backs the corporation into a bit of a corner. I'm sure 90ish % of coaster lovers are quite pleased that the highly regarded El Toro didn't get the axe instead, and would be extremely happy about getting a ride of similar regard + intensity at the expense of height. The general public, or at least some part of it, will be having none of that. It won't matter how great the ride is; the park will have replaced Kingda Ka with a "Kiddie" version if the new addition comes in under 400 feet. If the raw numbers aren't there, it's probably not something people will hear much about or be going out of their way to gawk at.

It's a pretty unfortunate reality that will have to be worked around in some way. While my heart will always be in Camp Ka, I absolutely agree that the Spinner is overly hated.

 

[mkj3322]

I think people just want a neat original layout coaster. Being a strata is irrelevant as its not going to make it all the way up the hill. It's very linear as well which doesn't do much for being a spinner. It's also likely that magic mountain will get one off the shelf as well to replace superman. It will be one foot taller and labeled as a record breaker.

Building something more exciting closer to the ground and save a few bucks. I doubt this thing will be cheaper than something like Alpenfury.

 

[RDL]

Yeah, I was about to type exactly what @GASM said. The shuttle straddle spinner was probably one of the best, if not the absolute best, "in-kind-Ka-replacement" we could have reasonably hoped for out of Six Flags. Really hope this doesn't end up being a situation where taking the one in the hand was probably better than delaying everything to potentially get two in the bush.

Ironically, we've sorta seen that happen at Busch Gardens Williamsburg. Wolf's Revenge is great and all for what it is, but BGW was completely setup to build a giga shuttle launch coaster (Drachen Spire), they canned it, tried to stretch to a hyper hybrid to satiate the fans, and then that fell through entirely leaving Williamsburg with a B&M family invert in its place. A lot of people would likely tell you today that Drachen Spire, in hindsight, looks like a far more appropriate Drachen Fire replacement and a better utilization of the land broadly than Wolf's Revenge ended up being. Really hoping history doesn't repeat itself in New Jersey.

I think Pantheon ended up distracting from a lot of this because it’s the best coaster at that park and very well received amongst enthusiasts and the GP, and was added shortly after the Drachen Spire dream died.

GAdv doesn’t, at least from what we currently know, have plans to add something like that. I’m talking about something that would replace Medusa and the arena next to it (since I expect that ride to go next honestly).

We’re in a very different position right now compared to BGW. The parks future is uncertain, and GAdv NEEDS whatever Kas replacement will be to be good enough to bring guests back. Replacing Ka with something minimal would essentially be the parks way of waving the white flag. I doubt it happens.

 

[RDL]

I think people just want a neat original layout coaster. Being a strata is irrelevant as its not going to make it all the way up the hill. It's very linear as well which doesn't do much for being a spinner. It's also likely that magic mountain will get one off the shelf as well to replace superman. It will be one foot taller and labeled as a record breaker.

Building something more exciting closer to the ground and save a few bucks. I doubt this thing will be cheaper than something like Alpenfury.

This is important to understand as well. GAdv hasn’t had something unique that has gone through a legit planning process since El Toro. That’s nearly two decades without a unique coaster that isn’t a clone or a relocation, for a park in one of the largest metro areas on the planet.

 

[italianstallion]

I’m also so exhausted by the absolute hatred of the spinner tower.

That makes two of us, because I’m also so exhausted by the absolute “whataboutism” of this argument:

The other main complaint I’ve seen is that the strata spinner would just be a gimmick. Because, y’know, that’s not exactly what Ka was lol.

I would take Ka’s/TTD’s launch over any other element on any coaster on Earth, as would many others who have expressed an opinion on this subject.

Let’s talk hypotheticals. The numbers being tossed around to bring Ka up as operational for 2025 were $1M. Maybe we double that and call it $2M due to the supposed structural issues. I don’t have Great Adventure’s YTD attendance figures in front of me, but by all accounts the park is way down on attendance this year. So they spend the $2M, bring the coaster up as operational and market it as the final season, and deploy some merchandise to mark the occasion. How many people do you think that brings through the gate? Let’s estimate 500 extra people per day on average. With about 160 operating days on the calendar, that’s 80,000 additional visitors for the year. Estimate average per caps on those visitors at $61.60 per person (per Google for the chain) and that’s almost $5M in top line revenue. I’d argue that’s low end due to the fact that these are 80,000 coaster nerds who would buy all the merch and Flash Passes possible. I agree that removing Ka was the right long term financial decision, but a terrible short term financial decision in timing and how they handled it.

Actually, who am I kidding. Given what’s going on with Pantherian my plan is as big of a pipe dream as them axing this Mack spinner. Might as well just anticipate the worst from this company so that when it’s actually even worse than that, we’re not as disappointed as we could have been.

 

[Nitro230]

Ironically, we've sorta seen that happen at Busch Gardens Williamsburg. Wolf's Revenge is great and all for what it is, but BGW was completely setup to build a giga shuttle launch coaster (Drachen Spire), they canned it, tried to stretch to a hyper hybrid to satiate the fans, and then that fell through entirely leaving Williamsburg with a B&M family invert in its place. A lot of people would likely tell you today that Drachen Spire, in hindsight, looks like a far more appropriate Drachen Fire replacement and a better utilization of the land broadly than Wolf's Revenge ended up being. Really hoping history doesn't repeat itself in New Jersey.

I don’t think the same will happen here because A: we’re already further along in the process, footers are down and construction has started and B: Great Adventure can’t afford to lose this ride, BGW is fine, would Drachen Spire have been a better ride? Totally, but BGW isn’t relying on it to be the main draw for the park nor is it replacing a well regarded ride

 

[GASM]

However, I'd argue that ridership wasn't the only measure of popularity in this (admittedly pretty isolated) case. People are naturally drawn to architectural wonders: huge skyscrapers, unique shapes, or just general landmarks - I've never understood the allure of that Bean in Chicago, but people adore it and go out of their way to say they saw it. I would put Ka in the same boat. There are plenty of folks who'd never ride it (or ride it once just to say they did), but they'd make sure to still get their photo with/of the world's tallest roller coaster.

Not to discount the rest of your comment, as I do agree with a lot of what you said (and generally do, you’ve got some of the more grounded takes on the park), but I do disagree with this to an extent. I don’t think Ka was really as iconic as some believe it was. It was a LARGE part of my life and is one of the most iconic coasters to me, but through conversations with casual coaster fans at work, very few have even been aware of Ka’s existence let alone status.

It was undeniably iconic to enthusiasts and residents of NJ, but I’d argue the same can be said for few others.

 

[harry580]

look, all I want to see, I want this new coaster be a iconic as kingda ka, its maybe hard, but I much prefer a coaster like kingda ka but better and possibly longer

 

[fingerblaster22]

Then my question is what was the answer? They tasked themselves with the impossible, replace the one of the most iconic roller coasters of all time. You build a giga whats the response going to be “I can’t believe they only replaced Kingda Ka with a bigger version of Nitro” anthing under 200 feet and they’ll complain it’s not tall enough. They don’t have falcons flight money…..what on earth were they going to replace Ka with? I was critical of the decision at first, and still think intamin could’ve renovated Ka and done a better job (but that clearly was off the table and after top thrill 2 I can’t blame them), but I’ve slowly come to realization that this might’ve been the best option

Well I think that is the answer. The park is part of a publicly traded company, enthusiants like us pissy about what they add make up about 0.50% of the daily attendance. They care about what the 99.5% thinks and the profit it provides to the shareholders.

So I think the 99.5% will just see a tower, with the name Kindga Ka in it, and not think twice about it. Its very tall, goes very fast, it will scare the shit out people, and they will probably walk off it happy. A happy customer is often a returning customer and thats unfortunately what the shareholder wants. And it will save money from what was there in the long run.

I think both enthusiasts and general public would be very accepting of a full-circuit Giga, Nitro is still one of the most popular attractions in the park and its over 20 years old. You have a point on the Mack tower generating more buzz than a bigger Nitro, because Six Flags will definitely market it as the new Kingda Ka!! Now it spins and launches you upside down. Its really all about the marketing, generating buzz to generate the crowds.

I personally would have given it the TT2 treatment, but wouldn't stop with just the reverse spike. Make it full circuit after the original structure. I threw out a wild conspiracy theory they should give it the TT2 treatment, but after it clears the original tower give it a 2nd launch and go after Falcon's Flight for the record. But again, publicly traded company so it would never happen.

Giga would probably be next best option out there in terms of pleasing all parties, generating buzz ect.

 

[AmyUD06]

For everyone claiming that [everyone "booing" the "strata spinner" concept has no real reason for doing so], have you considered that some people, even some enthusiasts in the community, absolutely loathe spinning coasters? I'm one of them, and I have friends who are just fine on any other coaster, but the added rotational dimension causes motion sickness - it affects me too, but keeping my eyes closed can minimize the effects on smaller rides like spinning mice). It would be like building a coaster that physically disabled people couldn't ride. So, yes, there are perfectly valid reasons for not liking that the potentially-tallest/fastest-coaster-in-a-country-that-women-and-LGBTQ-people-can-safely-travel-to being something as loathsome, disorienting, and/or literally sickening as a spinner. Aside from the perfectly valid criticisms of the capacity/length of shuttle coasters (even with turntables) and one-trick-pony nature of it, which are valid even if you don't think they are.

 

[RDL]

From what I’ve heard from those that have ridden extreme spinners, they don’t really make you very dizzy. I’ve never been on one though so take my claim with a grain of salt

 

[AmyUD06]

From what I’ve heard from those that have ridden extreme spinners, they don’t really make you very dizzy. I’ve never been on one though so take my claim with a grain of salt

It's not necessarily a dizziness thing...for whatever reason, my body just doesn't agree with moving sideways, and to a lesser extent backwards - I don't really like backwards launches either but I can at least stomach those like on Pantheon at BGW (I haven't been on Top Thrill 2 yet but I do not anticipate enjoying the backwards-launch portion). I don't do ride swing-and-rotate rides like Wonder Woman (SFGAdv) or Delirium (KI/KD) either, yet I thoroughly love swinging/inverting ships. Even mild spinning coasters are one-and-done for me just to get the credit (that I need to keep my eyes closed to not induce the effect). Like, 40+ year old bodies do weird things and mine just does not like moving sideways. For me, it's mild. For some of my friends, it's severe and will ruin their day.

Spinning at 100+ mph does not in any way appeal to me. Would I ride this strata spinner if it happens? Sure, once, for the credit....likely with my eyes closed and after downing some dramamine.... but I would much prefer something I could/would ride on every visit to the park, especially if it's of the caliber of a TTD/Kingda Ka.

I understand that not every ride needs to be for every person, but (IMHO), the marquee, record-breaking, star-attraction at a park should be for as many people as safely possible.

 

[Great Adventurer]

I don’t think Ka was really as iconic as some believe it was. It was a LARGE part of my life and is one of the most iconic coasters to me, but through conversations with casual coaster fans at work, very few have even been aware of Ka’s existence let alone status.

It was undeniably iconic to enthusiasts and residents of NJ, but I’d argue the same can be said for few others.

Totally fair! Given that I've lived in NJ my entire life, I can only speak to its influence within my own bubble here (and in the surrounding NYC/Philly territories).

It may be my imagination running wild, but there seems to be a palpable ambivalence when the park is spoken about nowadays. I've heard/seen the younger thrill seeking crowd bemoan a perceived lack of activities ("What's the point without Kingda Ka?"), local enthusiasts take their business elsewhere, and once in a blue moon visitors lament that NJ no longer has America's tallest coaster. Ka may not have had the overarching renown I've been implying, but it gave that extra spice to the days of the guests in the safari truck who diverted their attention from the baboons when they heard it launch. It made people ask where that selfie with the massive green tower was taken (the entry sign doesn't have the same effect). It was the most easily marketable thing we had - I didn't have to try and describe things like airtime to help family and friends understand why I enjoyed it.

I'm straying a bit here, but selfishly, it also provided a pretty solid reason to pardon the park's missteps. Anytime I was asked about Great Adventure making a mistake or cheapening an experience, I could default to answering that Kingda Ka required a lot of resources to run. It was a completely acceptable answer with no need for follow up. Not only is that excuse gone now, but a whole lot else is gone on top of it. It's demoralizing at best, and there's been no immediate improvement to show for it. I'm having more and more trouble giving Six Flags the benefit of the doubt with respect to investment and at this point I think they'll have to earn my trust back after I gave it to them freely in the past.

I would take Ka’s/TTD’s launch over any other element on any coaster on Earth, as would many others who have expressed an opinion on this subject.

100% with you here - hydraulic acceleration is an unbelievable sensation. It really sucks that accelerators have been plagued by these unceremonious removals recently, especially with the ride model no longer being manufactured.

I agree that removing Ka was the right long term financial decision, but a terrible short term financial decision in timing and how they handled it.

The handling of the situation was and always will be unacceptable. The sour taste left in fans' mouths could have a litany of long term consequences as well. Announcing the closure properly (even if it was a few weeks beforehand with no effort being made to prolong its life) would have lessened the sting a bit.

I understand that not every ride needs to be for every person, but (IMHO), the marquee, record-breaking, star-attraction at a park should be for as many people as safely possible.

The King was excellent in this regard.

There's only one way to find out for sure (and I'm certainly hoping for the best!), but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't at least somewhat worried about my personal capacity for re-riding a Spinner.