News Project 2027/Purple: Delayed “World Record Breaking Coaster" (Phantom Spire?)

[Zachary]

I have said this before but I'll say it again: If executed well, it's conceivable that the spinner shuttle strata could have similar hourly capacity to Kingda Ka. And if you factor in the downtime, it is highly likely that, in the average day, the spinner would give more rides than Ka did.

Obviously I want higher capacity attractions, but if they're meeting the previous benchmark, it's hard to complain too much in my opinion.

 

[nyxmike]

They JUST built a shuttle coaster (The Flash) which is opening in 2025. Why would they open another low capacity shuttle coaster in 2026? Also the rides in the survey's are never exactly what gets built.

 

[GAcoaster]

They JUST built a shuttle coaster (The Flash) which is opening in 2025. Why would they open another low capacity shuttle coaster in 2026? Also the rides in the survey's are never exactly what gets built.

Low capacity doesn't matter when you're trying to upsell Flashpass

 

[grkitalny]

What about a Mack Extreme Spinner - faster than Time Traveler/Ride to Happiness, More inversions, taller, longer, boom four world records on a spinning launch coaster

 

[netdvn]

So I was looking at park wait times today as many parks seem to be bursting at the seams.

Dollywood ran out of parking today.
Sooperdooperlooper hit 120 mins
SWO ran out of parking and had to shuttle people from Aquatica
Both Cobra's Curse and Cheetah Hunt were pulling 200+ min waits most of the day
Every major coaster at SFMM is an hour+
Every major coaster at Knotts is at 100 mins+
The line to get into BGW stretched from the toll plaza to the 64 entrance ramp

Nitro, Jersey Devil and Batman were under 30 mins most of the day. I think the park is fine with a low capacity coaster.

 

[Tacky3663]

So I was looking at park wait times today as many parks seem to be bursting at the seams.

Dollywood ran out of parking today.
Sooperdooperlooper hit 120 mins
SWO ran out of parking and had to shuttle people from Aquatica
Both Cobra's Curse and Cheetah Hunt were pulling 200+ min waits most of the day
Every major coaster at SFMM is an hour+
Every major coaster at Knotts is at 100 mins+
The line to get into BGW stretched from the toll plaza to the 64 entrance ramp

Nitro, Jersey Devil and Batman were under 30 mins most of the day. I think the park is fine with a low capacity coaster.

This is why I don’t visit theme parks during December lol

 

[netdvn]

This is why I don’t visit theme parks during December lol

If you go outside the holiday period you should be fine. Lots of people have the week off so they use it to travel.

 

[GoHokies87]

Parks outside Disney and Uni aren't largely concerned with capacity in the same way. Cost vs marketability seems to matter much more.

 

[Nitro230]

All of the previous owners when they took over the chain made the same claims of having big plans for GAdv which always fizzled out. Screamscape claims that CF has a long term plan called Project Accelerate where they remove less popular or high maintenance rides which is a nice way of saying they are downsizing and streamlining parks to reduce costs. It is not just this year, additional rides are likely to be removed next year.

Its clear that this shuttle design is a lowbuck replacement for an expensive ride. A shuttle design is inadequate as a major anchor attraction for a major park like GAdv. Especially if they plan to grow attendance in the near future. But as I said before, the capacity limitations of shuttle coasters are a feature, not a bug as far as the company is concerned.

That’s a fair point, and I won’t argue that this shuttle isn’t a step down. However, when it comes to the previous owners I have a rebuttal. These companies are going to invest heavily in parks that they believe have the highest growth potential. The latest corporate executives clearly thought expanding in Magic Mountain and Great America would be more profitable. I would say now that Great America is at or near it’s peak in terms of growth potential given the lack of immediate competition and Magic Mountain’s main competitor is now in the same chain, I doubt we see another huge wave of investment there. To me the park with the greatest potential in the new six flags is now Great Adventure and it’s not even close.

When it comes to capacity I feel like most are missing a few key pieces. First off: parks make the most money when you are out in the midways buying food, merchandise, and playing games. Parks make money off fast pass sales but it’s not their biggest money maker. I do remember someone doing a calculation said this ride in theory could match Ka’s capacity with a dual load station, making me believe the capacity issue isn’t as big a problem with this ride as many believe. However I don’t think this would be the last large addition to the park, I do think another coaster with a full layout would come soon after this is added. This is gonna be a long process, and it will take long after the Ka replacement is open for the park to reach its full potential, we gotta keep that in mind.

 

[The Master]

That’s a fair point, and I won’t argue that this shuttle isn’t a step down. However, when it comes to the previous owners I have a rebuttal. These companies are going to invest heavily in parks that they believe have the highest growth potential. The latest corporate executives clearly thought expanding in Magic Mountain and Great America would be more profitable. I would say now that Great America is at or near it’s peak in terms of growth potential given the lack of immediate competition and Magic Mountain’s main competitor is now in the same chain, I doubt we see another huge wave of investment there. To me the park with the greatest potential in the new six flags is now Great Adventure and it’s not even close.

When it comes to capacity I feel like most are missing a few key pieces. First off: parks make the most money when you are out in the midways buying food, merchandise, and playing games. Parks make money off fast pass sales but it’s not their biggest money maker. I do remember someone doing a calculation said this ride in theory could match Ka’s capacity with a dual load station, making me believe the capacity issue isn’t as big a problem with this ride as many believe. However I don’t think this would be the last large addition to the park, I do think another coaster with a full layout would come soon after this is added. This is gonna be a long process, and it will take long after the Ka replacement is open for the park to reach its full potential, we gotta keep that in mind.

All of CF's talk about reaching full potential and increasing attendance seems to be no more than corporate PR subterfuge to cover up their true goal of downsizing their parks to bare minimums to slash operating costs. If their goal is to truly improve the park and attendance, they have taken a huge gamble in not only removing 6 rides at once, half of which were highly unique icons, but also sacrificing this year and next along with the Flash. Next season the flash's opening is going to be overshadowed by Ka's closure and what its replacement will be. Also with the mishandling of these closures and their 50 anniversary and 2024 season overall has burned a lot of what little public goodwill the park had left. So not only are they taking an unnecessary big gamble but they also shot themselves in the foot too, guess they like a challenge.

Looking at the CG model of the proposed shuttle tower coaster, it does appear to have 20 passenger trains vs Ka's 18 passengers. However, in its prime KK had 4 trains and loading stations vs 2 for the Mack shuttle spinner. Moreover, dual stations like the one for Stormrunner requires two station crews to run both trains. This gives parks extra incentive for single train operations. Even though KK cut back to two train, single loading platform operations in recent years, at least a single loading crew could still operate 2 trains unlike Stormrunner. Low capacity doesn't just spur flash pass sales, its also used to ensure guests can't experience all the attractions they want to ride in one day to spur repeat visits. However, this often backfires and creates resentment from guests.

Also I saw someone did calculations for the $50 million budget for park improvements at GAdv. First it is going to cost $10 million to demolish the 6 rides and clean up their former sites. So that leaves just $40 million for Ka's replacement. While Ka's cost, adjusted for inflation is $60 million. However, I don't know how trustworthy these numbers are so take these figures with a grain of salt. It seems likely that CF bit off more than they can chew with their merger to SF and are desperate to cut outflows as much as possible above all else.

 

[paintervision]

Also I saw someone did calculations for the $50 million budget for park improvements at GAdv. First it is going to cost $10 million to demolish the 6 rides and clean up their former sites. So that leaves just $40 million for Ka's replacement. While Ka's cost, adjusted for inflation is $60 million. However, I don't know how trustworthy these numbers are so take these figures with a grain of salt. It seems likely that CF bit off more than they can chew with their merger to SF and are desperate to cut outflows as much as possible above all else.

Cedar Fair is inconsistent - they sometimes include the cost of demo, land clearing, and cleanup in their new ride costs. I think sometimes this is done to artificially inflate the cost of a new ride - maybe a tax reason, or something on the Corp side for investments? I think this happened with Carowinds' Intimidator/Thunder Striker, which was said to cost $23 million in 2010 ($33 million today) and included the cost to demolish the log flume. That was a part of a multi-year plan, and some later rides may have actually gone down in cost due to infrastructure upgrades and other aspects of the project at that time.

Other rides may not include extra work. I think this happened with a few Cedar Point projects, notably Maverick ($21 million in 2007, adjusted for inflation is $31 million in 2025) - which saved structures from White Water Landing but didn't include all the cost for removal of the rest of the ride itself - I've heard costs were much higher and that also didn't include the heartline roll replacement issue (not an extra cost for the park but they may have gotten a bit of a break on Shoot the Rapids ride's hardware price afterwards). Or for some rides they never publicly reveal the cost at all (see also: Iron Menace or Rapterra).

Costs are hard to nail down and are not always the best way to judge these projects.

 

[xenithwav]

Cedar Fair is inconsistent - they sometimes include the cost of demo, land clearing, and cleanup in their new ride costs. I think sometimes this is done to artificially inflate the cost of a new ride - maybe a tax reason, or something on the Corp side for investments? I think this happened with Carowinds' Intimidator/Thunder Striker, which was said to cost $23 million in 2010 ($33 million today) and included the cost to demolish the log flume. That was a part of a multi-year plan, and some later rides may have actually gone down in cost due to infrastructure upgrades and other aspects of the project at that time.

Other rides may not include extra work. I think this happened with a few Cedar Point projects, notably Maverick ($21 million in 2007, adjusted for inflation is $31 million in 2025) - which saved structures from White Water Landing but didn't include all the cost for removal of the rest of the ride itself - I've heard costs were much higher and that also didn't include the heartline roll replacement issue (not an extra cost for the park but they may have gotten a bit of a break on Shoot the Rapids ride's hardware price afterwards). Or for some rides they never publicly reveal the cost at all (see also: Iron Menace or Rapterra).

Costs are hard to nail down and are not always the best way to judge these projects.

Agreed. Costs for new rides at amusement parks can be difficult to pin down, partly because parks often “capitalize” the costs of land preparation (including demolition, land clearing, infrastructure upgrades, site grading, etc.) as part of the total project cost for the new ride. This is a common accounting practice that aligns with how capital assets are managed under standard accounting principles, since those costs are directly tied to making the land usable for the new attraction, which becomes part of the long-term investment.

From a more technical standpoint, capitalizing these costs allows corporate to depreciate the entire investment over time rather than expensing those prep costs immediately. This also improves their financial optics by spreading out the impact of those large expenses, making the investment look more attractive on SFEC’s financials.

Considering the site GADV is working with for the new project, they’re going to be capitalizing a lot of land prep. This will likely inflate the reported cost of the new ride (if revealed), especially considering the costs of implosion, cleanup, and other logistics. This may also dampen the amount of money put into the ride itself, but considering the ambitious budget proposal for 2026, I wouldn’t count on SFEC cutting corners on the new ride because of demolition costs.

 

[Nitro230]

Also I saw someone did calculations for the $50 million budget for park improvements at GAdv. First it is going to cost $10 million to demolish the 6 rides and clean up their former sites. So that leaves just $40 million for Ka's replacement. While Ka's cost, adjusted for inflation is $60 million. However, I don't know how trustworthy these numbers are so take these figures with a grain of salt. It seems likely that CF bit off more than they can chew with their merger to SF and are desperate to cut outflows as much as possible above all else.

That cost makes me question whether or not 2026 is Ka's replacement. Been thinking about this the last few days but it seems more and more likely these two plots of land won't be merged for one big coaster. Everyone has assumed so far that the 2026 coaster is Ka's replacement.....what if it's actually Green Lanterns though? So far all Great Adventure has said is that all 6 rides closing are "making way" for the 2026 coaster. We can take Six Flags for their word here but let's be real they lied to us from August on when it came to Ka's future, I wouldn't be shocked to see them bend the truth here. Green Lantern was clearly a planned closure, this is something that's been talked about for years at this point. That being the case it's far more likely they have a replacement ready for Green Lantern than Kingda Ka in such a short period of time. In addition to that it is far more difficult to close off the area around Green Lantern than Ka. Superman will be operating and having that empty plot of land next door is simply an eyesore they cannot hide. With Kingda Ka they can just close the entirety of the Golden Kingdom, put walls up preventing people from getting close and it wouldn't be nearly as terrible to look at. In the meantime they can spend more time coming up with the Ka replacement, because let's be real, the stakes can't be any higher right now. This is just a theory, not much to back it up but....I don't think it's that crazy to imagine.

 

[The Master]

That cost makes me question whether or not 2026 is Ka's replacement. Been thinking about this the last few days but it seems more and more likely these two plots of land won't be merged for one big coaster. Everyone has assumed so far that the 2026 coaster is Ka's replacement.....what if it's actually Green Lanterns though? So far all Great Adventure has said is that all 6 rides closing are "making way" for the 2026 coaster. We can take Six Flags for their word here but let's be real they lied to us from August on when it came to Ka's future, I wouldn't be shocked to see them bend the truth here. Green Lantern was clearly a planned closure, this is something that's been talked about for years at this point. That being the case it's far more likely they have a replacement ready for Green Lantern than Kingda Ka in such a short period of time. In addition to that it is far more difficult to close off the area around Green Lantern than Ka. Superman will be operating and having that empty plot of land next door is simply an eyesore they cannot hide. With Kingda Ka they can just close the entirety of the Golden Kingdom, put walls up preventing people from getting close and it wouldn't be nearly as terrible to look at. In the meantime they can spend more time coming up with the Ka replacement, because let's be real, the stakes can't be any higher right now. This is just a theory, not much to back it up but....I don't think it's that crazy to imagine.

I had doubts that all of that cleared land would be used for a single new attraction too. It would take an insanely huge coaster to utilize all that land SF probably does not have that cash with the merger costs. I visited the park on the last Monday before new years and the front of it already looks barrian even with GL's lift hill and first loop still standing. Sadly it will look even more empty next spring.

 

[Nitro230]

I had doubts that all of that cleared land would be used for a single new attraction too. It would take an insanely huge coaster to utilize all that land SF probably does not have that cash with the merger costs. I visited the park on the last Monday before new years and the front of it already looks barrian even with GL's lift hill and first loop still standing. Sadly it will look even more empty next spring.

The only thing that could legitimately fill the space is a giga, and we know now that’s just not on the table. I think that this area of the park is one the company had big renovation plans for before the merger, this space is in more urgent need of attention than the soon to be empty Ka plot. Anything could happen though. I’m still waiting for a worthy successor to Scream Machine.

 

[nyxmike]

Maybe it will be a giga launch coaster? The only giga launch is Red Force, so they could top that and spin it is as the world's tallest, fastest and longest giga launch coaster with a more complete layout than just a top hat. It needs to at least be 300 feet if it's going to replace Kingda Ka.

 

[Nitro230]

I doubt it. That budget is going to get in the way of something that big. There are very few manufacturers I would consider building something like that with, and all of them are going to be expensive. Pantheon cost 25 million, and this would double it in terms of size. I'm sure this is inflated by the cost to theme it but Red Force cost over 100 million USD according to RCDB.

 

[mtpelepele]

Ferrari Land cost $100 million. Not just the coaster, but an entire small amusement park.

 

[Nitro230]

Ferrari Land cost $100 million. Not just the coaster, but an entire small amusement park.

That’s my bad google did me dirty. Still though, a 300 foot tall giga launch coaster definitely doesn’t fit in that budget should it be accurate.

 

[RDL]

I know this technically isn't related to this thread at the moment, but I wonder if they'll drop the announcement date for the new coaster, or announce some kind of teaser campaign, since those sorts of things technically would be relevant to the 2025 season. That, and I'm not even sure why they'd tease an announcement in the middle of January unless it's specifically for that. Teasing an announcement if it's just going to be when the park is opening for example, that would be pointless.

I think considering all the sudden ride closures, it'd be atleast reasonable for them to not leave us in the dark surrounding this new coaster.