News Project 2027/Purple: Delayed “World Record Breaking Coaster" (Phantom Spire?)
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I will be surprised if this new coaster does open on time in 2026 and not delayed to 27.
There's zero reason to believe they can't hit opening day 2026. Cedar Fair excels at project management and this is a top priority for the company.
I don't think many people realize that GAdv essentially served as the big discount option in the 2010s for people living in the region and that JRA and the old regime treated it as such.
GAdv's primary attendance pull post bankruptcy were people that couldn't afford to go anywhere else. Hershey was always very expensive, and those that could afford it ended up going there instead once they saw GAdv start to deteriorate. That said, even at its worst, GAdv could easily outperform every other park operating with the same price point in the region. That's why the park had peak attendance up until COVID, despite the park being lackluster with additions and more importantly upkeep/maintenance.
All of this is why I think Selim raising prices was a good decision. It sounds screwed up, but the parks that are at their best are the ones with a premium pricetag. Think of it like virtual reality. VRs online experience was the best when it had a four figure pricetag. Once cheaper options became available and children started flooding servers and communities, the experience became much worse.
Same thing applies here. Gangs, teens with nowhere else to go, and kids who's parents used the park as a babysitter are no longer in the picture, and as someone who cares for the well being of the park, I think it's a step in the right direction. You can tell that corporate feels the same way just from the chaperone policies they recently implemented. Selim and CF both see potential in the park, and the first step in turning things around was to take out the trash. Now they're doing everything else, and it'll take time. Instead of having the park serve as a budget option, they want it to be the park to visit in the region, period.
GAdv announcing as much as they did for their 50th anniversary wouldn't have happened under JRA and I'll stand by that. What he did with the company, sending new things to each park every year, was a good idea on paper, and perhaps was the best way to pull the company back out of bankruptcy, but it backfired due to having to sacrifice the cost of upkeep and maintenance at alot of parks. The new regime is treating things alot differently. Look at Great Escape now, you could argue it's having a little resurgence and people are taking notice.
I was pessimistic before, but I do have reason now to think that GAdv has a bright future. Dorney doesn't get alot of new coasters or rides but the park looks alot nicer just because it's the way CF does things. The 2026 coaster, and the multi-year expansion focusing on improved guest experiences, lead me to think that GAdv will improve. Hopefully you guys end up being right.
edit: My previous pessimistic views were mainly fueled by years and years of things getting worse. I'm willing to take a clean look at everything and give this new regime a shot.
GAdv's primary attendance pull post bankruptcy were people that couldn't afford to go anywhere else. Hershey was always very expensive, and those that could afford it ended up going there instead once they saw GAdv start to deteriorate. That said, even at its worst, GAdv could easily outperform every other park operating with the same price point in the region. That's why the park had peak attendance up until COVID, despite the park being lackluster with additions and more importantly upkeep/maintenance.
All of this is why I think Selim raising prices was a good decision. It sounds screwed up, but the parks that are at their best are the ones with a premium pricetag. Think of it like virtual reality. VRs online experience was the best when it had a four figure pricetag. Once cheaper options became available and children started flooding servers and communities, the experience became much worse.
Same thing applies here. Gangs, teens with nowhere else to go, and kids who's parents used the park as a babysitter are no longer in the picture, and as someone who cares for the well being of the park, I think it's a step in the right direction. You can tell that corporate feels the same way just from the chaperone policies they recently implemented. Selim and CF both see potential in the park, and the first step in turning things around was to take out the trash. Now they're doing everything else, and it'll take time. Instead of having the park serve as a budget option, they want it to be the park to visit in the region, period.
GAdv announcing as much as they did for their 50th anniversary wouldn't have happened under JRA and I'll stand by that. What he did with the company, sending new things to each park every year, was a good idea on paper, and perhaps was the best way to pull the company back out of bankruptcy, but it backfired due to having to sacrifice the cost of upkeep and maintenance at alot of parks. The new regime is treating things alot differently. Look at Great Escape now, you could argue it's having a little resurgence and people are taking notice.
I was pessimistic before, but I do have reason now to think that GAdv has a bright future. Dorney doesn't get alot of new coasters or rides but the park looks alot nicer just because it's the way CF does things. The 2026 coaster, and the multi-year expansion focusing on improved guest experiences, lead me to think that GAdv will improve. Hopefully you guys end up being right.
edit: My previous pessimistic views were mainly fueled by years and years of things getting worse. I'm willing to take a clean look at everything and give this new regime a shot.
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This past fall I still saw plenty of gangs, teens, drop-off and unchaperoned kids in the park after dark despite the new policies. It seemed the chaperone policy was only enforced at the gate, but not within the park. I saw plenty of kids with no adults with them walking around FF after dark. Probably the parents walked their kids in past the gate then split.
I also saw adults and teens openly smoking weed several times in the park at night outside of the smoking areas. I am glad the park passed these new policies as they were sorely needed but they need much better enforcement as rules and laws are useless without proper enforcement. Granted FF has the roughest crowds out of the operating season.
A suitable replacement that is new would make up for the thrill ride losses, presuming more to come. For example a giga coaster or a the launched equivalent. The Skyway is a very different thing, although in a sense a huge, heavily themed family attraction would make up for it in a modern, promotable way.
Except for these strong expectations, a big Ka replacement is not the only intelligent path to take. However with SF spending a billion dollars, I would hope that would include a huge new signature ride for someone, and unless maybe the Texas dive coaster is a giga, this is it. Not that you have to fill that much space to spend a lot.
I looked back up the customer survey 3 months ago. My first thought was that the 400 foot spinning tower coaster is a control question, just the most outrageous thing they could think of to judge the other options against. However the maker of the video I watched was against it since the already had Ka, showing how confusing that could be. From that I considered that the survey could have been to judge Ka instead, the overall appeal of towering launch rides.
The other survey options were a indoor-outdoor themed coaster and a family coaster. The former could even offset the Skyway loss and it might make sense to put a building against the parking lot. The latter looks fun but it combined a closed loop with a shuttle section, which would limit it to one train; I think a park is getting one, but it doesn't make sense for Great Adventure as it would be expected to have a longer cycle than a high thrill shuttle.
The more i think, the more i think the entire coaster community is being fooled.
Hear me out, Ka WILL get reimagined.
Regardless of what the park is “saying” I truly believe Ka will get reimagined.
Reason #1: No Demo Permit Filed:
If they were really going to demolish the tower the permits wouldve been out. Theres no way the permits would not be out by now if the 2026 addition was truly taking up that plot of land. Why would they file the other 3 attractions but not Ka? It just makes no sense.
Reason #2: No Original Announcement of Zumanjaro Removement.
When the press release first came out, Zumanjaro was left off. It wasn’t determined until the public had to personally message and ask that the ride would be removed. Yes, this one may sound a little far fetched because they technically announced its going, but would they really just forget about removing the world’s tallest drop tower? I think they know its staying and made a mistake in the original release. Perhaps its just getting rethemed
Reason #3: Survey Markers in Station
Survey Markers were found in the station prior to the last operating day. This all but confirms the station will be reused in the project. The drawings used from the LIDAR survey conducted at the station are used to portray how the 26 addition will interact with the station at the current elevation, or will be used to design a station modification due to new track being added. This is definitely an important factor that is being underspeculated
Reason #4: The Logics
Would Great Adventure seriously just demolish its landmark? No, they wouldnt. Theres a reason Cedar Fair was hesitant to demolish dragster and pushed (and still are pushing) so hard to keep that thing alive: Because It Is Iconic.
I mean come on, how often do you have a 400+ foot structure to work with and create a ride that instantly puts your park at Top 20 in the World. It seriously just is not logical to remove such a landmark, regardless of operation costs, which will be reduced with the Ka modifications.
Reason #5: You’re All Getting Fooled
The only reason no one believes Ka is getting reimagined is because thats what you’re all “told” to believe! Cedar Fair wanted TT2 to be a surprise, but they didnt play their cards right. This time around, they likely want to surprise guests, hence the general belief this ride will just vanish. This could easily be a smokescreen and realistically the only ones who know for sure what is happening are the guys sitting corporate.
Hear me out, Ka WILL get reimagined.
Regardless of what the park is “saying” I truly believe Ka will get reimagined.
Reason #1: No Demo Permit Filed:
If they were really going to demolish the tower the permits wouldve been out. Theres no way the permits would not be out by now if the 2026 addition was truly taking up that plot of land. Why would they file the other 3 attractions but not Ka? It just makes no sense.
Reason #2: No Original Announcement of Zumanjaro Removement.
When the press release first came out, Zumanjaro was left off. It wasn’t determined until the public had to personally message and ask that the ride would be removed. Yes, this one may sound a little far fetched because they technically announced its going, but would they really just forget about removing the world’s tallest drop tower? I think they know its staying and made a mistake in the original release. Perhaps its just getting rethemed
Reason #3: Survey Markers in Station
Survey Markers were found in the station prior to the last operating day. This all but confirms the station will be reused in the project. The drawings used from the LIDAR survey conducted at the station are used to portray how the 26 addition will interact with the station at the current elevation, or will be used to design a station modification due to new track being added. This is definitely an important factor that is being underspeculated
Reason #4: The Logics
Would Great Adventure seriously just demolish its landmark? No, they wouldnt. Theres a reason Cedar Fair was hesitant to demolish dragster and pushed (and still are pushing) so hard to keep that thing alive: Because It Is Iconic.
I mean come on, how often do you have a 400+ foot structure to work with and create a ride that instantly puts your park at Top 20 in the World. It seriously just is not logical to remove such a landmark, regardless of operation costs, which will be reduced with the Ka modifications.
Reason #5: You’re All Getting Fooled
The only reason no one believes Ka is getting reimagined is because thats what you’re all “told” to believe! Cedar Fair wanted TT2 to be a surprise, but they didnt play their cards right. This time around, they likely want to surprise guests, hence the general belief this ride will just vanish. This could easily be a smokescreen and realistically the only ones who know for sure what is happening are the guys sitting corporate.
Reason #1 that you might be wrong: C O P I U M.
Cedar Fair has killed major tentpole rides before, when they decided it was best for the park. Son of Beast, Volcano, both very major and expensive rides that weren't immediately replaced. Ka, on the other hand, IS being replaced with something. They probably don't see it as a major loss, regardless of what the diehard enthusiasts say.
Besides height and speed, what records are left?
Inversions- with that much land I could see a multi launch coaster topping The Smiler’s record without having it be a spaghetti bowl of track to really have a graceful layout and to allow for more block zones which was a contributing factor to the smiler incident.
Currently from what I’ve seen on RCDB the record for most inversions on a launch coaster is 7 (tied for coasters like Hulk at IOA,it’s clone decepticoaster , Takabisha, Helix, and Voltron. At least until Alpen Fury opens which will have 9. So if it just gets ten it will be the most inversions on a launch coaster. I think they should just go for the ultimate record with 15+ as they need a big number to properly replace Kingda Ka properly.
Length- with that in mind it could also go for a length record. Whether they’ll try and beat Falcons Flight or not, it’s anyone’s game, but they can definitely beat The Beast’s record as longest coaster in North America.
Airtime- they could really try and beat Steel Vengeance with this too with as much room as they have. It might be hard to say reliably and might be one of the lesser records to try and market.
Number of launches - they could try and top Hagrid’s and do 8 launches but that might seem a bit much and a bit pedantic.
Angle of the drop- they can try and beat TMNT shellraiser but I don’t think that record is as catchy as length and inversions.
In the end, I think length and inversion count could be the way to go if they’re not trying to beat height and speed. There’s also one thing i don’t know is being taken into consideration. What if they’re building two coasters and all the room I see being added due to green lantern being removed is just for a second coaster?
Inversions- with that much land I could see a multi launch coaster topping The Smiler’s record without having it be a spaghetti bowl of track to really have a graceful layout and to allow for more block zones which was a contributing factor to the smiler incident.
Currently from what I’ve seen on RCDB the record for most inversions on a launch coaster is 7 (tied for coasters like Hulk at IOA,it’s clone decepticoaster , Takabisha, Helix, and Voltron. At least until Alpen Fury opens which will have 9. So if it just gets ten it will be the most inversions on a launch coaster. I think they should just go for the ultimate record with 15+ as they need a big number to properly replace Kingda Ka properly.
Length- with that in mind it could also go for a length record. Whether they’ll try and beat Falcons Flight or not, it’s anyone’s game, but they can definitely beat The Beast’s record as longest coaster in North America.
Airtime- they could really try and beat Steel Vengeance with this too with as much room as they have. It might be hard to say reliably and might be one of the lesser records to try and market.
Number of launches - they could try and top Hagrid’s and do 8 launches but that might seem a bit much and a bit pedantic.
Angle of the drop- they can try and beat TMNT shellraiser but I don’t think that record is as catchy as length and inversions.
In the end, I think length and inversion count could be the way to go if they’re not trying to beat height and speed. There’s also one thing i don’t know is being taken into consideration. What if they’re building two coasters and all the room I see being added due to green lantern being removed is just for a second coaster?
Here me out worlds shortest slowest lowest height requirement multi launch coasters.
Don't have a dog in this fight so much as let's look at your examples and see if they make sense:
Volcano - lots of discussion on it's closure here, but IIRC it was a function of downtime and low capacity that did it in (Paramount bought an Intamin prototype before it was really ready for the use it got); we also were generally aware of ideas being discussed at a high level to revamp the area before it's closure so perhaps not as sudden of a removal as it seemed.
SoB - yeah, the truly iconic ride (the Beast) is still operating, but SoB was known to not be that great a ride even when it was operating without hurting anyone - the loop made it iconic. But RCCA was a shit design company, and there was some Paramount ratfuckery in the mix too, so it doesn't make sense for a business to keep sinking more than the original build costs to reengineer into a ride that simply wasn't all that fun.
KK - we'll see what happens though as @warfelg and others have mentioned the timing on the demo permits is interesting. All I can hope is it's not Zamperla if they retrofit the existing structure.
When Falcon's Flight opens, it will create a matching set of records "without a windshield" although depending on what happens with Formula Rossa they could have had 1-2 of those with what they had, maybe TT2 will get them instead. Spitfire there will be getting the world's tallest inversion at 240', although it only goes 79 MPH.
The park's surveys also suggest tallest fastest spinning coaster and longest fastest launched family coaster. I suggested quite a few more 4 weeks ago in my post #183 . The fastest coaster with inversions, fastest LSM hyper, and longest launched hyper is only(?) 205.1', 80.5 MPH and 3412' (interestingly, by Mack). The fastest launched hyper is 205' and 82 MPH, and the fastest hyper is 88.2 MPH from a 269' drop, beatable with a launch. This could make for a fantastic coaster overall, as well as "breaking records", with an imposing presence.
It's amazing how much people love Ka now that it's probably gone, but it did have a lot of faults, poor condition and very shaky to the point of liability concerns. The most that would make sense is reusing the tower somehow, but could be in the wrong place or just need so little of it, and hard to modify, just not worth the hassles.
Reason #1 is why I suspect that this replacement coaster may not be ready in time for 2026 along with the park's history of delays, unless its something really simple they can slap up fast.
There's no need to begin construction until deep into 2025 in order to have a coaster ready for 2026. There's a good chance, in fact, that bidding the removal of Ka and the construction of the new coaster together would be advantageous for SFGAdv as it would prevent duplicative work and, hence, duplicative costs. That alone could be a good reason for a demo permit not existing thus far.
I don't see any practical way that they could build one that tops Falon Flight without a similar terrain feature. I suppose it's possible that they could claim a record like highest above grade and say that the cliff is cheating but given that both are in the Six Flags family that doesn't seem likely.
Six Flags Qiddiya is only licensing the name Six Flags and isn’t actually owned by the company.
Even if we go by the lower of the two tallest bits, that's still 550ft. That's really damn tall. I'm not sure SF is ready to drop the kind of cash needed to reclaim that record.
I think we may see "World's tallest & fastest multi launched shuttle coaster". If SFMM's shuts down by the time this ride is opened, it doesn't even have to be that tall or fast to claim those records.