News Project 2027/Purple: Delayed “World Record Breaking Coaster" (Phantom Spire?)

[netdvn]

What does it cost to maintain other rides? Surely not $0. Probably way more than that? So, just to take an example, how much does it cost to maintain Nitro?

Park usually don't release those numbers.

But I do know the ride required constant maintenance just to remain operational. Most B&Ms don't require a crew on call 24-7.

Park could easily send those maintenance people to other rides to keep those operational so they're not running 1 train ops for months during the season.

 

[The Master]

Park usually don't release those numbers.

But I do know the ride required constant maintenance just to remain operational. Most B&Ms don't require a crew on call 24-7.

Park could easily send those maintenance people to other rides to keep those operational so they're not running 1 train ops for months during the season.

Which is what happened during this spring anyway, several coasters including B&Ms only running single trains.

 

[netdvn]

So the (literal) million dollar question is

Would you rather have park resources focused on maintaining KK at the expense of the rest of the park or would you rather have the park cut its losses and close KK but improve maintenance across the board?

 

[The Master]

So the (literal) million dollar question is

Would you rather have park resources focused on maintaining KK at the expense of the rest of the park or would you rather have the park cut its losses and close KK but improve maintenance across the board?

That is assuming those savings are put into retained earnings to be reinvested into the park as opposed to just being paid out in increased dividends to the shareholders resulting in no improved maintenance and the loss of KK. Though the more likely scenario is that a portion goes to improved maintenance and another portion goes into dividends, with latter likely being the lion's share as the executives are often major shareholder themselves.

 

[netdvn]

Based on the positive changes made this year, I definitely see that money invested back into the park.

Flash, the new entrance, refurbished flume, Dream Street, and the refurbished Ferris wheel, plus new trains on Nitro last year. (I also really liked the 50th anniversary bar too. I'm hoping that's a permanent addition). Its pretty clear corporate sees potential in the park. The park is extending their 50th celebration through next year and I'll definitely be there for that.

 

[The Master]

Based on the positive changes made this year, I definitely see that money invested back into the park.

Flash, the new entrance, refurbished flume, Dream Street, and the refurbished Ferris wheel, plus new trains on Nitro last year. (I also really liked the 50th anniversary bar too. I'm hoping that's a permanent addition). Its pretty clear corporate sees potential in the park. The park is extending their 50th celebration through next year and I'll definitely be there for that.

We also saw single train operations, a delayed new coaster, delayed flume and big wheel reopenings, delayed FF, SBNO rides, delayed opening and early closure of entire sections of the park, understaffing, etc. The park's 50th was a bust and the continuation is not shaping up well with a 6 ride loss, with half of them being highly iconic.

The new entrance was pretty minimal effort.

Personally I am not keen on bars.

 

[netdvn]

I guess we'll have to wait and see how this makeup event turns out. I'm looking forward to coming back next year to see if the park made any positive changes.

Maybe with all these people supposedly cancelling their passes and not planning any visits next year, Flash won't be as crowded as everyone is claiming it'll be for its first year of operations.

 

[RDL]

If the rumors hold true and KK was costing the park millions of dollars to operate, there's a good chance the budget towards new rides/infrastructure improvements was being funneled into keeping KK operational. Without the one giant maintenance headache pulling resources from the rest of the park, now they can use that money elsewhere.

Even if it just cost $1 million a year to run, that's $19 million going to one ride over 19 years. You could buy at least 2 RMCs with that money.

Cedar Point probably spent alot of money operating TTD, but added Gatekeeper, Valravn, and SteVe all within the span of five years, and that was with some other CF parks getting massive investments (particularly Carowinds with Fury and Copperhead)

 

[netdvn]

Cedar Point probably spent alot of money operating TTD, but added Gatekeeper, Valravn, and SteVe all within the span of five years, and that was with some other CF parks getting massive investments (particularly Carowinds with Fury and Copperhead)

Cedar Fair and Six Flags pretty much operated differently in the 00s-10s.

Notice most of the major additions SF added across the board since KK opened were smaller coasters like free spins. They really haven't added anything on the scale of Toro and Tatsu since then. Yeah there were a few exceptions to the rule. X-Flight and most of the chain's RMCs were added around that time, but GAdv ended up with their own RMC in 2021.

And speaking of Cedar Fair...

Kings Dominion opened Dominator, 305 and Twisted Timbers since they were purchased from the Paramount Parks. They removed Hypersonic, Shockwave, Volcano, Crypt, and Hurler in that time period.

Only a handful of CF parks really received any major additions and those were pretty much given to the former Paramount parks and Cedar Point. SF operated under the mentality that every park should receive an addition, even if it was a flat ride or a free spin.

 

[the_pantsmith]

Regarding that million dollar question, I'd liken it back to rebuilding a sports team. We just got a new GM who succeeded in rebuilding a team in a bad spot (KD), and he just made the decision to cut the former MVP who's too old and not good enough to justify his contract. It's like the Packers trading Aaron Rodgers. Tough decision but it's working out for them, because the Packers have a good GM.

The Jets have a terrible GM and built their entire roster around this aging former MVP. And now they suck (lmao Jets).

With CF execs at the top, I trust our GM in this hypothetical to steer us more in a Packers direction. If old Six Flags was still in charge, I'd have a LOT less trust.

 

[horsesboy]

Regarding that million dollar question, I'd liken it back to rebuilding a sports team. We just got a new GM who succeeded in rebuilding a team in a bad spot (KD), and he just made the decision to cut the former MVP who's too old and not good enough to justify his contract. It's like the Packers trading Aaron Rodgers. Tough decision but it's working out for them, because the Packers have a good GM.

The Jets have a terrible GM and built their entire roster around this aging former MVP. And now they suck (lmao Jets).

With CF execs at the top, I trust our GM in this hypothetical to steer us more in a Packers direction. If old Six Flags was still in charge, I'd have a LOT less trust.

I am a Washington fans I don't know anything about this rebuilding thing.

 

[NKMM10893]

Regarding that million dollar question, I'd liken it back to rebuilding a sports team. We just got a new GM who succeeded in rebuilding a team in a bad spot (KD), and he just made the decision to cut the former MVP who's too old and not good enough to justify his contract. It's like the Packers trading Aaron Rodgers. Tough decision but it's working out for them, because the Packers have a good GM.

The Jets have a terrible GM and built their entire roster around this aging former MVP. And now they suck (lmao Jets).

With CF execs at the top, I trust our GM in this hypothetical to steer us more in a Packers direction. If old Six Flags was still in charge, I'd have a LOT less trust.

You know, I’m already mourning the loss of Kingda Ka. I didn’t need to be reminded of my favorite football team’s futility on top of that.

 

[the_pantsmith]

I'm always looking for ways to remind Jete fans about the Jete sucking

 

[The Master]

I guess we'll have to wait and see how this makeup event turns out. I'm looking forward to coming back next year to see if the park made any positive changes.

Maybe with all these people supposedly cancelling their passes and not planning any visits next year, Flash won't be as crowded as everyone is claiming it'll be for its first year of operations.

Its possible and would be interesting to see if it happens. Overall its an unfortunate situation going on now.

 

[RDL]

In my opinion, I can't see the park surviving just from general improvements alone. There is no longer a coaster that will make locals want to travel there and I don't think a 400ft mack shuttle is going to do that either.

The park has needed a Velocicoaster level addition for awhile and they need it now more than ever with Ka gone. Forget about whether or not Ka was truly a draw for guests, we're dealing with two massive coasters being removed from the lineup without any kind of warning announcement. If Toro is the only ride that's worth traveling for, people are just going to go to their respective homeparks instead.

Does CF really think a gimmick coaster and years of general improvements alone will save the park? We're not just dealing with the damage of this seasons failure of a 50th anniversary and the removal of all these rides, we're dealing with 10+ years of negligence. I want to see this park succeed, but if those surveys are any indication of what's to come (they probably are, as they've leaked AlpenFury, the Carowinds water ride, and the likely giga dive going to OT) then I'm not so sure I'm confident in CFs plan.

Joker, JDC, Flash and the mack shuttle are all cloneable layouts. I don't see why it's so difficult for this company to build an original coaster for the park.

 

[Fiender]

In my opinion, I can't see the park surviving just from general improvements alone. There is no longer a coaster that will make locals want to travel there and I don't think a 400ft mack shuttle is going to do that either.

The park has needed a Velocicoaster level addition for awhile and they need it now more than ever with Ka gone. Forget about whether or not Ka was truly a draw for guests, we're dealing with two massive coasters being removed from the lineup without any kind of warning announcement. If Toro is the only ride that's worth traveling for, people are just going to go to their respective homeparks instead.

Does CF really think a gimmick coaster and years of general improvements alone will save the park? We're not just dealing with the damage of this seasons failure of a 50th anniversary and the removal of all these rides, we're dealing with 10+ years of negligence. I want to see this park succeed, but if those surveys are any indication of what's to come (they probably are, as they've leaked AlpenFury, the Carowinds water ride, and the likely giga dive going to OT) then I'm not so sure I'm confident in CFs plan.

Joker, JDC, Flash and the mack shuttle are all cloneable layouts. I don't see why it's so difficult for this company to build an original coaster for the park.

Parks like GADV don't make mad bank from traveling enthusiasts, they make most of their money from locals. Locals travel there because it's the biggest park with the most to do. I'm sure the loss of Ka and corporate's handling of it will keep some guests away, but it was just a single attraction. I'm an enthusiast and even I would rather ride Nitro or Jersey Devil than the shaky mess that was Kingda Ka.

Whatever they replace Ka with will likely be flashy and gimmicky enough to sate the general public, and will probably be fun enough to satisfy most (if not all) enthusiasts. GADV might take a small hit to attendance before this replacement opens, but the park doesn't need "saving".

 

[netdvn]

In my opinion, I can't see the park surviving just from general improvements alone. There is no longer a coaster that will make locals want to travel there and I don't think a 400ft mack shuttle is going to do that either.

The park has needed a Velocicoaster level addition for awhile and they need it now more than ever with Ka gone. Forget about whether or not Ka was truly a draw for guests, we're dealing with two massive coasters being removed from the lineup without any kind of warning announcement. If Toro is the only ride that's worth traveling for, people are just going to go to their respective homeparks instead.

Does CF really think a gimmick coaster and years of general improvements alone will save the park? We're not just dealing with the damage of this seasons failure of a 50th anniversary and the removal of all these rides, we're dealing with 10+ years of negligence. I want to see this park succeed, but if those surveys are any indication of what's to come (they probably are, as they've leaked AlpenFury, the Carowinds water ride, and the likely giga dive going to OT) then I'm not so sure I'm confident in CFs plan.

Joker, JDC, Flash and the mack shuttle are all cloneable layouts. I don't see why it's so difficult for this company to build an original coaster for the park.

You said it yourself. The park has had years of negligence and corporate is looking to fix that right now.

Stuff like this takes time to reverse. You can't raise a magic wand and expect the park to go from looking rundown and shabby to immaculate immediately. Everyone here seems to think that the park can just magically transform overnight into something spectacular. They can't.

The park need to fix the problems it has now, because if they don't, no amount of coasters will draw enough attendance to justify all these new additions.

Look at Six Flags in the early 00s. They were building massive record breakers year after year and look where it got them! Bankruptcy, selling off a couple parks and sacrificing not only Astroworld, but Geauga Lake too. This was at the expense of their currently operating parks. They developed a reputation for being the discount park chain with great rides, but every other experience from food to service to cleanliness too a turn for the worst.

On top of that, GAdv has a pretty deep lineup of coasters. They can do without one of their signatures for a year. It's happened in the past when Toro was down extended. If anything, a dip in attendance means no lines for Flash.

 

[RDL]

Parks like GADV don't make mad bank from traveling enthusiasts, they make most of their money from locals. Locals travel there because it's the biggest park with the most to do. I'm sure the loss of Ka and corporate's handling of it will keep some guests away, but it was just a single attraction. I'm an enthusiast and even I would rather ride Nitro or Jersey Devil than the shaky mess that was Kingda Ka.

Whatever they replace Ka with will likely be flashy and gimmicky enough to sate the general public, and will probably be fun enough to satisfy most (if not all) enthusiasts. GADV might take a small hit to attendance before this replacement opens, but the park doesn't need "saving".

Well, on that last point, it depends. If you're fine with GAdv being the Discovery Kingdom of the east coast, then sure, I suppose the park doesn't really need to do anything outside of general improvements going forward.

Not catering to enthusiasts is to be expected and is completely reasonable, but most of the coasters that have been added since 2006 have been poorly recieved by the general public. I agree, GAdv was a huge draw back in the day because there was so much to do. Now though, with the surrounding parks only getting better, along with the removal of six rides at once, that isn't exactly the case anymore, and attendance numbers show that.

Take a look at GAm. They've added four original coasters, none of which were clones or relocations, to the park since the bankruptcy. All of them have been very well received by their visitors. We're talking about the old company here, the same one responsible for GAdv being as far gone as it currently is. What exactly has stopped GAdv from making similar additions? Is it that hard to build a unique coaster to replace Ka instead of something that will likely get cloned at other parks? (The survey for Kings Island had them adding a 200ft version of that same shuttle tower)

Yes, I'm being pessimistic. But alot of my anger comes from years of watching other parks add unique attractions and seeing this one routinely do the bare minimum. No, I don't think the park will ever die, but I have a feeling that it isn't going to be as high on the food chain in the eyes of CF as most people wish. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

 

[RDL]

You said it yourself. The park has had years of negligence and corporate is looking to fix that right now.

Stuff like this takes time to reverse. You can't raise a magic wand and expect the park to go from looking rundown and shabby to immaculate immediately. Everyone here seems to think that the park can just magically transform overnight into something spectacular. They can't.

The park need to fix the problems it has now, because if they don't, no amount of coasters will draw enough attendance to justify all these new additions.

Look at Six Flags in the early 00s. They were building massive record breakers year after year and look where it got them! Bankruptcy, selling off a couple parks and sacrificing not only Astroworld, but Geauga Lake too. This was at the expense of their currently operating parks. They developed a reputation for being the discount park chain with great rides, but every other experience from food to service to cleanliness too a turn for the worst.

On top of that, GAdv has a pretty deep lineup of coasters. They can do without one of their signatures for a year. It's happened in the past when Toro was down extended. If anything, a dip in attendance means no lines for Flash.

I never said the process of cleaning up the park wouldn't take time, nor did I say that it wouldn't be necessary. I just don't think it's really going to do alot to help restore it back to it's 2000s glory, because too much damage has already been done. GAdv hasn't really done alot good amidst all the chaos currently going on, and I don't think it's really that bad of a take to say that a new signature attraction would help to ease the pain of losing Ka and all those other rides.

As I stated in another comment I just posted, I don't think the park is going to die. I just think it's going to be alot closer to a park like Discovery Kingdom on the good chain than a park like GAm going forward, and hey, some people are fine with that. I just think it's a big let down when you look at where the park was in the 2000s.

 

[netdvn]

I never said the process of cleaning up the park wouldn't take time, nor did I say that it wouldn't be necessary. I just don't think it's really going to do alot to help restore it back to it's 2000s glory, because too much damage has already been done. GAdv hasn't really done alot good amidst all the chaos currently going on, and I don't think it's really that bad of a take to say that a new signature attraction would help to ease the pain of losing Ka and all those other rides.

As I stated in another comment I just posted, I don't think the park is going to die. I just think it's going to be alot closer to a park like Discovery Kingdom on the good chain than a park like GAm going forward, and hey, some people are fine with that. I just think it's a big let down when you look at where the park was in the 2000s.

Wasn't that era of the park plagued with problems though?

The War on Lines didn't do much to help mitigate the park's increasing crowds. The park just ended up with a dozen closed rides that they couldn't staff or were maintenance headaches. Most of them ended up being removed anyway. And that's not including the park removing their older rides like Freefall.

On top of that, the park also ended up removing Chiller and GASM around that time period.

That era of Six Flags in general brought about the rough reputation the chain is known for.

So yeah the park added a few rides, but the rest of the park had to pay the price and a bunch of rides still ended up getting removed anyway. Is that the direction you want the park to go in?

I don't really see the park ending up like SFDK in the long run. The operations would have to fall off a cliff for that to happen. I'm not just talking about closed rides either. They'd have to staff crews at all the rides that take 5 mins to check anything. As long as Nitro, Toro, JD, Batman, RMT, Skull Mountain and Dark Knight have good ops, GAdv will never sink to SFDK levels.

What exactly has stopped GAdv from making similar additions?

Probably Kingda Ka. If the ride is really costing the park millions a year, I could see it pulling resources from other parts of the park plus I could see it cutting into the new ride budget too