Project 2025/Caldera: Rapterra (Launched B&M Wing Coaster)

[Bring Back Questor 87]

BGW will likely try to overshadow the 2025 attraction at KD with an RMC like Iron Gwazi, which I believe will come to pass where Drachen Fire was.

Great things ahead I hope! I actually wish it was BGW getting the Wing, it would be very useful after the coaster additions of late.

 

[Zachary]

That is my main concern about this addition. In 2025 specifically, it feels inevitable that it will be dramatically overshadowed by whatever monster BGW is plotting. In some ways I wish KD was pushing this off to 2026 if only to dodge that bullet.

It will be a great coaster but I'm very concerned about how much of the spotlight it will actually manage to hold onto in the minds of the local population in its opening year. It especially sucks because it feels like every time KD opens a new coaster some outside force is there to suppress its marketability (see Volcano's death with Timber's opening for instance). Hopefully history doesn't repeat itself. Kings Dominion DESERVES a big win with this thing.

 

[madmax]

Meh, a volcano replacement is still going to be a huge deal. It’s different enough from an RMC.

 

[rswashdc]

That is my main concern about this addition. In 2025 specifically, it feels inevitable that it will be dramatically overshadowed by whatever monster BGW is plotting. In some ways I wish KD was pushing this off to 2026 if only to dodge that bullet.

It will be a great coaster but I'm very concerned about how much of the spotlight it will actually manage to hold onto in the minds of the local population in its opening year. It especially sucks because it feels like every time KD opens a new coaster some outside force is there to suppress its marketability (see Volcano's death with Timber's opening for instance). Hopefully history doesn't repeat itself. Kings Dominion DESERVES a big win with this thing.

KD having a big addition of their own against whatever BGW is planning is better than going with nothing again in 2025. I believe Tumbili and Jungle X did a lot to hold serve while Pantheon came out, where from the general public perception it looked pretty equal in terms of new attractions.

Honestly for both parks their ability to put big draw events seems to trump what comes from new rides.

 

[cschnizer]

A real difference here is that KD 2025 would be only the fifth wing coaster in the U.S., and a launched one at that. BGW 2025, if a 220 ft tall RMC….would only be yet another variation of the I-Box coaster when there’s already thirteen other ones in the country, two of which are also hyper hybrids and one already in Virginia. Only the stats and certain elements would draw people in I think.

 

[Mushroom]

I’m not convinced that BGW and KD both opening major coasters in the same year is as big of a deal as enthusiasts tend to think. I think it’s an extension of enthusiasts’ general tendency to imagine a greater rivalry between the two parks than there really is.

For example, how many current KD passholders are going to cancel their KD passes because BGW is also opening a new coaster? How many DMV area residents are going to drive the extra 2.5 hours round trip to ride BGW’s new coaster when they can ride KD’s? Vice versa for BGW. That might be a bit simplistic, but the point is that each park’s focus is simply on maintaining their existing customer base and growing it; that doesn’t necessarily have to come at the expense of the other park. KD is competing for the family who might spend the day at home or at the beach instead, not just the family who might go to BGW instead.

The differences between KD Project 2025 and BGW Project 2025 might seem significant to us as enthusiasts, and they might actually sway our decisions about which park to visit. But consider that for the general public, the most they’ll know about either new coaster is what they see in a 15 second Instagram ad or a billboard. Their decision on which park to visit is not only a factor of the new coaster coming to each park, but dozens of other factors like location, price, marketing, and so forth. They’re not breaking out spreadsheets to compare ride stats. The conversation more likely goes something like, “Hey, we haven’t been to Kings Dominion in a while, they have a new coaster, want to go?”

At the end of the day, each park is adding a new coaster to increase the overall value of the park. The returns for a new coaster don’t just come in the year the ride opens. They don’t just come in the 5 years after it opens. They come in perpetuity, as long as the ride still makes the park better. Remember, the commodity that CF and SEAS sell is tickets to theme parks. The parks are the product. Coasters are an investment in enhancing that product so people continue to buy it. It’s like when Apple updates the iPhone. They improve the product so people will still buy it for years to come. BGW and KD are adding these new coasters not to see their ROI in 2025, but to make their parks more valuable — something more people will want to pay more money to visit — for decades to come.

Do parks enjoy a nice attendance spike with a big new attraction opening? Sometimes, but I’m convinced that’s often the result of a great promotional campaign. The point is, the competition between the two parks is overblown. To the extent that is popularly believed, BGW’s gain isn’t KD’s loss. And vice versa.

2025 is shaping up to be an awesome year for Virginia theme parks. Bring it on.

 

[madmax]

Also one is going to be a massive thoosie bait coaster (if the rumors are true) and the other is going to be a fairly themed crowd pleaser. Two different types of rides.

 

[Thrills & Chills WQAQ]

Actually let's clear something up about Volcano's capacity, particularly right before it closed. For those of you that do not know, I was a Ride Operator and eventually a Team Lead at Kings Dominion from the 2016 to the 2018 season, leaving mid summer 2018. My assigned ride location was Volcano/Scrambler, but I was know to float all over Safari Village (except Flight of Fear) and Neptune in Planet Snoopy. With that out of the way...

Volcano ran 2 trains with 16 seats. If you absolutely pushed Volcano to the max, dispatching a train every time the block system would allow, you can get a max of 43 trains in 1 hour. That would be a paltry 688 pph max. Volcano did that exactly once for one hour the entire time I was there. With a good crew, you could expect to get about 30-35 cycles an hour. That would reduce capacity to 480-560 pph. Now if you rode Volcano in her last years you'd know that the last two rows were perpetually closed. Maintenance tried many times to get the old girl to run full trains but she wasn't having it. Anyways that would bring capacity down to 360-420 pph.

If you compare those numbers to the boiler plate capacity for Thunderbird at Holiday World, you'd see that it's not even close. Thunderbird has 2 trains with 20 seats, with a stated hourly capacity of 1,140 pph. That would make it 57 cycles an hour. That is a 65% increase over Volcano at her best, and a 171-216% increase at her average. There are literally shuttle coasters with higher capacity. Hell, a good operator could do better at Scrambler by themselves. Equating any coaster's capacity to be anywhere near Volcano's is laughable at best, and disingenuous at worst.

Wow that’s some cool info

 

[cackylack]

These parks are also going to be up against the 2025 opening of Epic Universe. If you haven't seen the aerial pics that Bioreconstruct uploads to Twitter every week or so, prepare to be amazed. I can't see anything getting more (worldwide) attention than that in 2025, it'll be king.

 

[CoasterAuditor]

I don't personally feel like that will really matter much for the Virginia parks in 2025. People decide to go to Universal as a vacation, locals go to our parks on weekends for fun or to get the kids out for a bit. Then you have your travelers coming from other parts of the state/country and enthusiasts. I don't think people will forego going to them in 2025 entirely because of Epic Universe down in Florida which will likely cost $150 just to go through the gate.

 

[warfelg]

I don't personally feel like that will really matter much for the Virginia parks in 2025. People decide to go to Universal as a vacation, locals go to our parks on weekends for fun or to get the kids out for a bit. Then you have your travelers coming from other parts of the state/country and enthusiasts. I don't think people will forego going to them in 2025 entirely because of Epic Universe down in Florida which will likely cost $150 just to go through the gate.

Add in Uni is gonna be a shit show that year. There’s going to be some that decide to wait 2-3 years before going.

 

[Unagi]

These parks are also going to be up against the 2025 opening of Epic Universe.

No they won't.

Seasonal and regional parks never worry about what's going on in Florida as they are two completely different target markets. The central Florida parks have the advantage of being open year round with easy access for international visitors where parks like KD and BGW don't have that luxury. Regional parks have to worry more about others that are closer to them and if they're gonna be debuting any shiny new toys. Not everyone will flock to Epic Universe just because it's a brand new park. A case in point here is the opening of Islands of Adventure in 1999, as it had absolutely no effect on BGW's attendance that year, which saw the debut of Apollo's Chariot.

 

[madmax]

Apparently B&M changed the wing model a bit with Fenix at Toverland so that it’s more intense and you get more airtime. If you combine that with a launch and some theming this could be a surprisingly stellar ride.

 

[DE_Creative]

Apparently B&M changed the wing model a bit with Fenix at Toverland so that it’s more intense and you get more airtime. If you combine that with a launch and some theming this could be a surprisingly stellar ride.

Did they change the model or did they just give them a layout that pulls stronger forces than many previous rides? You gotta be specific

 

[madmax]

Did they change the model or did they just give them a layout that pulls stronger forces than many previous rides? You gotta be specific

Might have been both. The vests are apparently less restrictive than before.

 

[CoasterMac]

^I don't remember any specific technical differences on Fenix. It's probably just that the layout was designed to have a very nice airtime hill after the drop, and the very unique high-G flat turn. The less-restrictive vests seems like a modification to prevent locking/tightening; I believe that's just the new standard for Wing restraints.

 

[madmax]

^My mistake then.

 

[Crunchewy]

Less restrictive vest restraints? Man that would be a huge win. I enjoyed Gatekeeper, but even at 6' those vests feel a bit too tight. This coaster is sounding better and better.

 

[CoasterAuditor]

I will comment I struggle bad not riding in the larger seats on any B&M with hard OTSRs. At Cedar Point, Kings Island, and Holiday World, I was able to ride in any seat in the vest B&Ms. I’m 6’2 with very broad shoulders so the vests are a bit easier to get on than the hard OTSRs. I’m sure this info is relevant for those concerned being stuck in Dominator row 4 and 5 hell for years.

 

[Thrills & Chills WQAQ]

I like weagle and didn’t have any problem with the vests.. didn’t have any problems with experiencing the nice airtime on that ride in the back row