Project 2022: Pantheon

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GrandpaD said:
Meanwhile...back at MMXX....

Ok....I did some "Columbo-ing", Googling and chatting. This is what I think we might see-

The FAA came back with a "Determination" which is basically saying all is cool for height as @chrisorris24 posted. That's what the DET column is on the blue square.

The determination also includes language that cranes, etc. used to construct are part of the height calculations.

The lat./long on the determination waiver is shown with the red circled X. It is very close to the same location in the plat as @b.mac posted and on this map. According to FAA the structure must be within 250 ft. of this location. As I measured the "Spike" is approximately 165ft from the center point. The top hat is over 275ft. The Spike is also close to the center line denoting the distance to the airport as on the waiver. Not so the top hat.

One last thing. The blue box DNE column. The FAA definition is Do Not Exceed. It's of the opinion that the actual structure is 253ft and 325ft above sea level (adding the terrain height).

So, I think we're looking at a 253-ish ft spike. Maybe the top 10-15ft is a small "pole" with the required FAA light.

Ok, fire away.
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I'm guessing that would make the drop a little over 300? Asking for a friend.
 
kingadam said:
If my math is correct, the max theoretical drop would be 193', but that's not considering friction. That's also based on a max velocity of 76mph at the very bottom of the drop and a 0mph initial velocity (at the top of the tophat).
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Yup, so assuming there's 50' of the drop below the grade the top hat is built on, that would give about a 145' top hat element.
 
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warfelg said:
Yup, so assuming there's 50' of the drop below the grade the top hat is built on, that would give about a 145' top hat element.
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That would put it right at what the PA design presentation showed.

Please don't interpret this as argumentative (just a curious question)- but how did the two No Limits "pros" that did the recreations deduce a 195ft top hat, 220ft drop at 76mph?
 
GrandpaD said:
That would put it right at what the PA design presentation showed.

Please don't interpret this as argumentative (just a curious question)- but how did the two No Limits "pros" that did the recreations deduce a 195ft top hat, 220ft drop at 76mph?
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I believe they used trim brakes down the drop to regulate the speed.
 
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Ok, so I assume that's how Intamin achieved the stall effect on the PA presentation?

@BGWnut - I really don't think so. In the two examples we're looking at, the "top speed" was the drop. I fall into the "top speed visible from the Italy Bridge" faction.
 
I agree with you on that. I just think the actual top speed is faster than 76 on the drop. Don't forget that most launch coasters really only advertise the top launch speed even if there are faster speeds on the ride elsewhere.
 
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Unless the people misread the footer pattern, going faster than 76mph at the drop would make for a very quick ride. I timed the recreations. From station to top hat crest is about 50 seconds with the total ride timing at about 1:20. That's in line with the PA presentation's timing and speed.
 
Honestly we probably aren't discussing a notable speed increase if the launch speed is 76 mph. Most likely just looking at drop in the very low 80s would be my guess.
 
Something to keep in mind. Apollo’s chariot is a 210 foot drop, and hits 73Mph. So I think we’re looking at about 250 foot top hat.
 
lce said:
I see Mack dedicating resources to handling rollbacks in that way as almost a waste of time, especially when their launches already use almost no power. Just up it.
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I think the second launch on Copperhead is also a block brake, that's how they're testing it. They also want the hang time in the next element, so they can't just crank the launch up.

This does actually relate to 2020, yet another reason for using the multi-launch method is if the track can switch fast enough, they can wait until that is safe before launching, and yet never stop usually.
 
GrandpaD said:
That would put it right at what the PA design presentation showed.

Please don't interpret this as argumentative (just a curious question)- but how did the two No Limits "pros" that did the recreations deduce a 195ft top hat, 220ft drop at 76mph?
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A guess based on topographical maps and where the track is.
 
GrandpaD said:
Ok, so I assume that's how Intamin achieved the stall effect on the PA presentation?

@BGWnut - I really don't think so. In the two examples we're looking at, the "top speed" was the drop. I fall into the "top speed visible from the Italy Bridge" faction.
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No, they know the physics and the launch speed to just barely get it to getting over the top.
 
chrisorris24 said:
Something to keep in mind. Apollo’s chariot is a 210 foot drop, and hits 73Mph. So I think we’re looking at about 250 foot top hat.
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I think you're forgetting the Festa terrain change...40+/- feet from top hat to river shore.

Regarding restraints/trains that everyone was "discussing" last night - In the front page story @Zachary wrote the places show the trains "appear(s)to match the design of other recent Intamin multi-launch coaster trains to a tee"

Here's an Intamin PR piece on the Taron trains and restraints.
 
GrandpaD said:
@Nivlac_remark If my assumption of DNE is correct, that would be the max height they could go. I agree with you about Mach Tower. I know @Zachary , et al will cringe, but the "slide" doesn't bullet point being "tallest", which I think they would if it was projected to be.
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Once again, the slide is a rough draft of all of this, not the final product. I still don’t understand why everyone is taking that as gospel.
 
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If the leaked blueprints are correct then there is no way this is faster than 76 mph. There are very few elements after the top hat. Unless the rest of the ride is gonna be trimmed to shit, the G's on those last tight elements would be too insane.
 
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DangerRaide said:
If the leaked blueprints are correct then there is no way this is faster than 76 mph. There are very few elements after the top hat. Unless the rest of the ride is gonna be trimmed to shit, the G's on those last tight elements would be too insane.
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Not really. The elements are pretty spread out as they are and there are sweeping turns in between. You can do those at 80 mph or so.
 
I don't know about how much more speed than 76 you'd want/can achieve. Using the MMXX and PA recreations, both time out at about the same 1:20 ride at a top speed (not average speed) of 76. Get up to 80-90mph with the layout we've seen, from the drop to the brakes will be over before your first scream ends.
 
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