Register or Login to Hide This Ad for Free!
I think that this "expansion" is horrible. The area from around the Caroseul to the tram stop was amazing and had a special feel that you were intering the park that Milton Hershey built...now I know it wasnt exactly like that when he was around but the feel for me was still there. I do feel the entrance gates needed some reworking for crowd flow but I think this could have been done with the old structure remaining. There is something to be said for a park that still have the old parts of it in operation. I really feel this will now make HP just another park with a bunch of rides.
 
I think that this "expansion" is horrible. The area from around the Caroseul to the tram stop was amazing and had a special feel that you were intering the park that Milton Hershey built...now I know it wasnt exactly like that when he was around but the feel for me was still there. I do feel the entrance gates needed some reworking for crowd flow but I think this could have been done with the old structure remaining. There is something to be said for a park that still have the old parts of it in operation. I really feel this will now make HP just another park with a bunch of rides.

There was no feasible way to keep that and change it. Their entrance area was roughly half of BGWs with double the attendance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zimmy
There was no feasible way to keep that and change it. Their entrance area was roughly half of BGWs with double the attendance.
Yes there was, move the exit and have both areas to the sides as entrances for day guests, have the old entrances used for passholders and resort guests. A speedier ticket system would make things faster at the ticket booths as well. They could easily have 14 entrance gates with what they had.
 
Yes there was, move the exit and have both areas to the sides as entrances for day guests, have the old entrances used for passholders and resort guests. A speedier ticket system would make things faster at the ticket booths as well. They could easily have 14 entrance gates with what they had.

It wasn’t enough space. That entrance area was so close to violating ADA, public safety, and fire laws. And given the age there was no way to move structures without damaging any of them.

HPs options were to move it where the current claw is and make Tudor square part of the park, tear down and rebuild. CW and HP are two separate entities, but basically it’s all done with the others consent. And CWs preference was to keep HPs entrance close as it helped drive their revenue.

Add in parts of the projects include shops outside the park, keeping those areas close to the free CW parking was important too.

So sadly all signs pointed to Tudor Square coming down to progress the park. The one that was really unnecessary IMO was the lighthouse coming down. That’s the last true park origin icons that was there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zimmy and Thomas
I guess everyone is entitled to view the park in their own way but to say that anything at Chocolate World gives you the true Hershey experience is far from reality. At least in HP y ou can ride the Kissing Tower and the Monorail and see various buildings and the rail lines that bring in cocoa beans and other ingredients that were and are used in making Hershey Chocolate as well as the old factory and storage silos not just some fake machine and video.
 
Well the intent of the park was never to be educational on the factories. It was an entertainment complex for the factory town. Very early days of Hershey Park (two separate words back than) was a bandstand dance hall, amphitheater, outdoor pool, and an ice skating rink. As time went on he hosted a fair on property, and in seeing the popularity of Roller Coasters, decided to have one built that could be rode for a modest fee. Over time the park became very “Knobles-Like” where there were no gates, but you bought tickets to ride. As Herco came in, and ride prices went up, they noticed a dip in attendance. This came about the same time more parks were going “entry fee” and away from “ride tickets”. That’s when Tudor Square and Founders Circle were built to give a formal entrance.

Fun fact:
Tudor Square was built to look like 1800’s Lancaster Pa, where Hershey started making caramels. Lancaster is mostly German heritage, hence the similarities to Germany area or BGW.
 
The attractions at Chocolate World, particularly the tram ride, provide an experiance that nothing in the park can compare to. Even the 4D ride at Chocolate Town gives you more of the "Hershey" experiance than most of, if not all of Hersheypark.
I said that Chocalate Town gave more of a Hershey experiance. I'm not talking about the free attraction, I'm talking about the Trolley tour that gives an in depth, up close tour of everything you mentioned
Ive done the Trolley "show" tour. It was ok but could really do without all the cheesy singing and be just an informative ride. Talking about that trolly tour I am suprised that is still able to get around the seatbelt laws. Not sure how their insurance provider hasnt axed them freely walking on a moving vehicle and changing outfits on the back while in motion.
 
Ive done the Trolley "show" tour. It was ok but could really do without all the cheesy singing and be just an informative ride. Talking about that trolly tour I am suprised that is still able to get around the seatbelt laws. Not sure how their insurance provider hasnt axed them freely walking on a moving vehicle and changing outfits on the back while in motion.

PA laws still allow for open trollies to not have seatbelts, along with busses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zimmy
In simple physics terms, a trolly has more mass to absorb an inpact than your average car. They are also designed in such a way that the trolley absorbs impact as well.
 
Many states allow for trollies and busses to not have seatbelts. However I would assume that the way they ride on the back standing and changing costumes on the back while in motion would not be covered under normal bus or trolley seatbelt laws. Now since you want to quote "physics".......there is a 99.9999999% chance that the person standing on the back would be ejected in a side impact to that vehicle or worse if that vehicle struct something. I drive a vehicle that weighs well over 56,000 pounds single axle every day at work and occasionally some vehicles that are way more so im assuming that has more mass than a trolley and we are still required by law to be seated and belted at all times. I wasnt trying to start a seatbelt law debate........
 
Ive done the Trolley "show" tour. It was ok but could really do without all the cheesy singing and be just an informative ride. Talking about that trolly tour I am suprised that is still able to get around the seatbelt laws. Not sure how their insurance provider hasnt axed them freely walking on a moving vehicle and changing outfits on the back while in motion.
Honestly just stop going to fucking theme parks. All you do is whine about them and how everything is "ok" or sucks entirely. I get it, nothing is perfect. but it seems that there is nothing out there that you actually enjoy. FFS it's a park themed to a chocolate company. It won't ever be themed to the level of disney so dont expect that. And to complain about seatbelt laws is just asinine.

In my humble honest opinion GTFO.

/(starting shit)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jlofties and Thomas
OK. I am stepping in right now.

That post is dangerously close to a personal attack. In fact, a persuasive argument could be made that the incredibly aggressive condemnation of WDWRLD’s behavior does violate our rules.

After much deliberation, I have decided that because sunchild did not directly call WDWRLD a name, the post is just barely still in a grey area.

Regardless, there is never a reason for that kind of aggression on this Forum.
 
Honestly just stop going to fucking theme parks. All you do is whine about them and how everything is "ok" or sucks entirely. I get it, nothing is perfect. but it seems that there is nothing out there that you actually enjoy. FFS it's a park themed to a chocolate company. It won't ever be themed to the level of disney so dont expect that. And to complain about seatbelt laws is just asinine.

In my humble honset opinion GTFO.

/(starting shit)
All I said was I had done the trolley show and it was ok but could do without the singing and just be informative....as far as the seatbelt thing....I was just mentioning that I was suprised that they still could do that with all of todays laws. I didnt bring up the trolleys to start with and at what point was anything compared to Disney?
 
*Checks this thread*
*Grabs bleach*

I was just mentioning that I was suprised that they still could do that with all of todays laws.

Pennsylvania is more of a grandfather state for the most part. Majority of their laws put in place protect things that were in place before the law was passed at least until something happens and then they want it brought to modern standards (see: Idlewild's Rollo Coaster). A lot of the PA parks do things that most other parks wouldn't even dream of being able to get away with without having their insurance companies and their state inspectors come down hard on them.

Also commenting on the "corporate" feel of Hersheypark. There's basically 2 eras of the park, and Tudor Square was built during the beginning of that 2nd era. Prior to 1971 Hershey used to be a free admission, pay per ride park ala Knoebels but due to the increasing attendance they decided an admission gate would be a better move for their future. Prior to about 15 years ago Hershey was a perennial 2 million attendance per year park, in line with Busch Gardens Williamsburg and and behind a tad of Great Adventure. After the economic recession for whatever reason Hershey's attendance has skyrocketed past the 3 million mark and they now compete toe-to-toe with Great Adventure (Both acheiving in the neighborhood of 3.2-3.5 million visitors a year). It has overwhelmed the park to a sense, which is explained beautifully by @warfelg up above with regards to ADA and accessibility. Hershey was painted into a corner, and outgrew their current infrastructure. Their marketing basically touts this as a turn into a 3rd era of the park, which despite all of the 3rd party vendors, not exceptionally good capacity rides, and general lack of themeing (Hershey is a branded amusement park, not a theme park), I'm perfectly satisfied them and how they're handling their future.
 
Also commenting on the "corporate" feel of Hersheypark. There's basically 2 eras of the park, and Tudor Square was built during the beginning of that 2nd era.

Sorry to parse your post out here with more information, but in college one of my internships was writing a paper on factory towns that ended up published (after massive MASSIVE editing). Hersheypark is entering it's 4th era. At 110 years old it should be expected. They are:
1903-1923: This was the workers park era. A time when it had a ball field, amphitheater, skating rink, dance hall, ect.
1923-1971: The start of the amusement era. This kicked off with the original Wild Cat. 1945 saw the original carousel replaced with the current one and 1946 saw the original Wild Cat replaced with Comet (currently standing).
1971-1999: This was the change over form Hershey Park, a pay-as-you-ride 'amusement park' into a one time gate fee 'theme park' Hersheypark.
2000-current: Ushering in of the new age. Comet Hallow has been renamed "The Hallow" and updated theme elements. Other area of the park have ben renamed and in the process of having it's theme elements being updating. They did change from 'theme park' back to 'amusement park' in this time.

Prior to 1971 Hershey used to be a free admission, pay per ride park ala Knoebels but due to the increasing attendance they decided an admission gate would be a better move for their future.

Correct on the time and change, incorrect on the reason though. They changed because they wanted to change from a local park to be regional and even 'super regional' and felt the most cost effective way was to have a single ticket pass.

Prior to about 15 years ago Hershey was a perennial 2 million attendance per year park, in line with Busch Gardens Williamsburg and and behind a tad of Great Adventure. After the economic recession for whatever reason Hershey's attendance has skyrocketed past the 3 million mark and they now compete toe-to-toe with Great Adventure (Both acheiving in the neighborhood of 3.2-3.5 million visitors a year). It has overwhelmed the park to a sense, which is explained beautifully by @warfelg up above with regards to ADA and accessibility. Hershey was painted into a corner, and outgrew their current infrastructure. Their marketing basically touts this as a turn into a 3rd era of the park, which despite all of the 3rd party vendors, not exceptionally good capacity rides, and general lack of themeing (Hershey is a branded amusement park, not a theme park), I'm perfectly satisfied them and how they're handling their future.

Correct on all of this. A side note: the park's website calls it the 3rd iteration because they don't count the 'pre-ride' era as part of the parks history.

As part of my project, I was lucky enough to get to talk to people that planned out Tudor Square and RhineLand. Those were the official names of the entry area to Hersheypark, with Tudor Square being outside the gate and RhineLand being inside the gate. At the time the park was seeing a roughly modest 250,000-350,000 people per day. At the time, ownership wanted Tudor Square/RhineLand to be handle about 4x that capacity (1M people). The designers said they went a little above that and pushed it to handle the flow of 1.5M people).

Hence why the stores aren't that big, the bathrooms (well, I've never seen the women's, just the mens) had about 10 stalls and 10 urinals. They were built to accommodate that few people because they never planned on lines that big at the gate before opening.

5 openings in the old gate, with 2 cashiers a side, the 6th (ADA capable) gate was added later, and the exit that was much smaller next to it. Mind you what BGW uses 4 areas for (Zone A or the old ticket booths, Zone B with the kiosks, Zone C for the Season tickets, Zone D for the front gate) ticketing issues, HP uses 2 (One building for group sales/season tickets, and the gate for everything else). So the setup was very inefficient.

While BGW is same size in terms of entry ports, they are much bigger, don't handle ticket sales there, have security moved away, they do serve far fewer people. Best projections that I can see out of it is HP sees 3.3M people per year, while BGW sees 2.5M.

BGW: 2.5M people, 193 days (including Member Preview Days) = AVE 12,953.4 people per day open
HP: 3.3M people, 179 days (including Member Preview Days) + AVE 18,435.7 people per day open

Imagine cramming an average of 5,500 extra people a day through the front gates of BGW daily. Now of course you factor in slow days (Christmas for both having days with less than 10,000 for both; summer days with 20,000-25,000+).

HP has seen a 17% growth in the last 10 years, which is just staggering. It's a time when parks are happy to be scratching 10% in growth over their last 10 years.

So you got a gate that's getting overrun, with a poor layout for more than 1.5M people in a season, seeing 3.3M people in a season and only growing. They needed to do something about it. Would it have been nice to do it in a way that kept some of the charm and just made it bigger? Sure. But in fact this is one of the places going for the 'factory/warehouse' look that I don't mind at all because that's what Hershey was built around.
 
At the time the park was seeing a roughly modest 250,000-350,000 people per day. At the time, ownership wanted Tudor Square/RhineLand to be handle about 4x that capacity (1M people). The designers said they went a little above that and pushed it to handle the flow of 1.5M people).
So your saying the entrance was seeing crowds of a quarter million perople per day and it was designed for 1.5 million per day?
 
So your saying the entrance was seeing crowds of a quarter million perople per day and it was designed for 1.5 million per day?

Not per day. Per year. Break it down to operating days open and it was designed for 10,000-12,000 and its seeing 20,000+. For point of reference BGW is designed for about 15,000 and Disney/Universal is designed for 50,000.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zimmy
Ok, thats what I thought but it said per day. For refrence The Magic Kingdom had 80,000 guests at 4pm on December 30.
 
Ok, thats what I thought but it said per day. For refrence The Magic Kingdom had 80,000 guests at 4pm on December 30.

Outside of the Disney and Universal parks there are not many other amusement parks in the world that can handle more than 60,000 guests in a single day. Even with the combined water park Hershey's total capacity is only about 50,000 right now, which is in the upper end but still falls short of a park like Cedar Point or Six Flags Magic Mountain.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zimmy and warfelg
Consider Donating to Hide This Ad