Keep in mind, too many quick queues means that they aren't so "quick" anymore. 
On-Site Resort Hotel for Busch Gardens Williamsburg?
- Thread starter mc14
- Start date
So, I’ve read through most of these “Looking Towards the Future” threads, and I’ve finally started to really formulate my opinions on it all. Before you read all of this, none of this is meant to be offensive or derogatory towards well-trusted sources. Sources are amazing in every sense of the word. This is simply me talking out an extremely complex subject, so please, feel free to add, subtract, divide, or do whatever to the discussion here to follow.
We are a fansite, we are here to discuss and question. Several posts have stated, “everything points to full year, so its going to happen.” “The Resort is on the table, it’s going to happen.” Why is it going to happen, how, and, my favorite question that has been asked very rarely in these discussions, should it happen?
Full year operation and the Resort are dependent on each other, however I highly doubt both will be announced and implemented during the same time period. If they are, it must be a horrifying and white-knuckle decision. The outcomes and attendance records of full year operation will directly correlate to the success of the Resort. If the Resort is constructed and touted as the best place to stay in Williamsburg we may have a different ballgame on our hands. The possibility of making it a conference center as well is a whole ‘nother game.
All of this aside, if the Resort is built as a direct connection between the park and the experience of the park outside of its walls, park attendance dictates the Resort’s success. We have no problem with attendance from April to December (March is hit or miss due to weather and temperatures). That leaves January and February, the bane of existence for Hampton Roads.
My main fear for full year operation is Busch never finding its way out of those months, like Virginia Beach has suffered through for years. The beachgoers are gone, the locals move back into their work lives (and sometimes winter homes), and tourism all but flatlines on the Oceanfront. Planners there and throughout Hampton Roads have been working on this problem for ages, and they’ve never really made any substantial headway with it. So my question is, why is Busch different?
When the largest city in the Commonwealth can’t fight the off-season, but a private company fights back and says we’re gonna try, shouldn’t that raise red flags?
I feel like some of you fail to see the gravity of all of this. If this happens, and works, they, as a private entity, have found a way to revive a tourism sector that lays dormant for an entire region for upwards of, really, about four months (Jan-Apr).
What they are (possibly) trying to do is massive.
What they are (possibly) trying to do is risky.
I’ve been fairly thorough in explaining things up to this point, so forgive my shortness in this following paragraph.
There is no draw to Busch Gardens in January and February.
Picture it, paying 50$ (gotta think those two months would be cheaper) to go see a show and ride the swings on a 42 degree overcast day.
Busch shows are wonderful, but they won’t draw people to the park on January 16. A craving for a Festhaus pizza is not going to spur an impromptu weekend to Williamsburg on February 5. Colonial Williamsburg has the same problem. They still put on events, but they obviously don’t put all of their capital into those months for obvious reasons. There is a reason you find deals on hotels then. There is a reason they are called dead months.
There are numerous obstacles that would have to be overcome beyond just the fiscal responsibility of it all, i.e. maintenance time, entertainment strike down, transformation of seasonal staff into yearly/on roll staff, maintenance of the park itself, the list goes on. This is when my big thesis of my discussion becomes apparent (after 653 words no less!).
I don’t believe full operation will last more than two years after its inception. However I do believe the resort can be successful due to an added aspect that none of you have discussed.
Virginia Beach is a conference town. Williamsburg is a conference town.
This added detail to the resort could be the thing that takes the Resort full year. I know Kingsmill does it, but they’re not on our tab anymore. Even three midsized ballrooms make a difference. I know this is from left field, and this is on no good authority of sources, but my gut tells me one day, and I do not believe it will be in the next year or two, but one day we’ll see a sign on 64 that reads:
Welcome to the [Insert Name] Resort and Conference Center
At Busch Gardens Williamsburg
I feel, rather I know, that this park, Water Country, and the Resort as a whole is bound for greatness. But we must see it as such, a whole Resort. A new destination.
Busch Gardens Williamsburg does not need to be open in January and February.
Thanks for reading, and be open minded about all of this. If all of this really comes to fruition, the heads of Busch surely have been.
-Sky
We are a fansite, we are here to discuss and question. Several posts have stated, “everything points to full year, so its going to happen.” “The Resort is on the table, it’s going to happen.” Why is it going to happen, how, and, my favorite question that has been asked very rarely in these discussions, should it happen?
Full year operation and the Resort are dependent on each other, however I highly doubt both will be announced and implemented during the same time period. If they are, it must be a horrifying and white-knuckle decision. The outcomes and attendance records of full year operation will directly correlate to the success of the Resort. If the Resort is constructed and touted as the best place to stay in Williamsburg we may have a different ballgame on our hands. The possibility of making it a conference center as well is a whole ‘nother game.
All of this aside, if the Resort is built as a direct connection between the park and the experience of the park outside of its walls, park attendance dictates the Resort’s success. We have no problem with attendance from April to December (March is hit or miss due to weather and temperatures). That leaves January and February, the bane of existence for Hampton Roads.
My main fear for full year operation is Busch never finding its way out of those months, like Virginia Beach has suffered through for years. The beachgoers are gone, the locals move back into their work lives (and sometimes winter homes), and tourism all but flatlines on the Oceanfront. Planners there and throughout Hampton Roads have been working on this problem for ages, and they’ve never really made any substantial headway with it. So my question is, why is Busch different?
When the largest city in the Commonwealth can’t fight the off-season, but a private company fights back and says we’re gonna try, shouldn’t that raise red flags?
I feel like some of you fail to see the gravity of all of this. If this happens, and works, they, as a private entity, have found a way to revive a tourism sector that lays dormant for an entire region for upwards of, really, about four months (Jan-Apr).
What they are (possibly) trying to do is massive.
What they are (possibly) trying to do is risky.
I’ve been fairly thorough in explaining things up to this point, so forgive my shortness in this following paragraph.
There is no draw to Busch Gardens in January and February.
Picture it, paying 50$ (gotta think those two months would be cheaper) to go see a show and ride the swings on a 42 degree overcast day.
Busch shows are wonderful, but they won’t draw people to the park on January 16. A craving for a Festhaus pizza is not going to spur an impromptu weekend to Williamsburg on February 5. Colonial Williamsburg has the same problem. They still put on events, but they obviously don’t put all of their capital into those months for obvious reasons. There is a reason you find deals on hotels then. There is a reason they are called dead months.
There are numerous obstacles that would have to be overcome beyond just the fiscal responsibility of it all, i.e. maintenance time, entertainment strike down, transformation of seasonal staff into yearly/on roll staff, maintenance of the park itself, the list goes on. This is when my big thesis of my discussion becomes apparent (after 653 words no less!).
I don’t believe full operation will last more than two years after its inception. However I do believe the resort can be successful due to an added aspect that none of you have discussed.
Virginia Beach is a conference town. Williamsburg is a conference town.
This added detail to the resort could be the thing that takes the Resort full year. I know Kingsmill does it, but they’re not on our tab anymore. Even three midsized ballrooms make a difference. I know this is from left field, and this is on no good authority of sources, but my gut tells me one day, and I do not believe it will be in the next year or two, but one day we’ll see a sign on 64 that reads:
Welcome to the [Insert Name] Resort and Conference Center
At Busch Gardens Williamsburg
I feel, rather I know, that this park, Water Country, and the Resort as a whole is bound for greatness. But we must see it as such, a whole Resort. A new destination.
Busch Gardens Williamsburg does not need to be open in January and February.
Thanks for reading, and be open minded about all of this. If all of this really comes to fruition, the heads of Busch surely have been.
-Sky
My only response is that yes, full year is difficult and maybe be hard to pull off but I bring to your attention, that they could go full year if they did weekends only in January thru February. BGW is mostly a locals park. You see posts on Facebook and hear people say all the time in the middle of the off season they wish they could go to the park to do this or that.
I think that is the key to success. BGW relies heavily on it's season pass holders and the locals who remain loyal. Sure they may have a few slow days, but honestly, I still think Saturdays would attract a decent crowd and Fridays would be fairly decent.
Also, there are certain things that can draw people to the park that the park can do. For example, adding more dark rides for more ride options. This is a perfect way to get people to come to the park no matter what the weather is like.
I think it will be difficult to start, but once they can budget for things accordingly it should be all good. Maybe they could have a special multi-day ticket like the Fun Card for January to February but half price or just cheaper.
I will reply later, I must go now.
I think that is the key to success. BGW relies heavily on it's season pass holders and the locals who remain loyal. Sure they may have a few slow days, but honestly, I still think Saturdays would attract a decent crowd and Fridays would be fairly decent.
Also, there are certain things that can draw people to the park that the park can do. For example, adding more dark rides for more ride options. This is a perfect way to get people to come to the park no matter what the weather is like.
I think it will be difficult to start, but once they can budget for things accordingly it should be all good. Maybe they could have a special multi-day ticket like the Fun Card for January to February but half price or just cheaper.
I will reply later, I must go now.
Here is an idea to make the resort full year. Indoor water park and convention center! Look toward Kalahari Resorts for example. And these resorts are things that people will travel for, though usually not as far as for a regular park.
During the summer (or early/late season) the park can offer deals to people travelling to spend a day at the resort then a day at the park. Even better when the park is only open on weekends (Howl-O-Scream and Christmas Town) they can offer a Thursday through Monday deal. Check in on Thursday and enjoy the water park; the amusement park on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday; check out on Monday and enjoy the water park till you leave to go home.
And during the off season (Jan-March) the water park can be open while the main park is closed. Even if they do something like the water parks in Sandusky, OH do (except for Kalahari) and only open on the weekend during the slow months it's still open year round and (hopefully) making money.
Just an idea...
During the summer (or early/late season) the park can offer deals to people travelling to spend a day at the resort then a day at the park. Even better when the park is only open on weekends (Howl-O-Scream and Christmas Town) they can offer a Thursday through Monday deal. Check in on Thursday and enjoy the water park; the amusement park on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday; check out on Monday and enjoy the water park till you leave to go home.
And during the off season (Jan-March) the water park can be open while the main park is closed. Even if they do something like the water parks in Sandusky, OH do (except for Kalahari) and only open on the weekend during the slow months it's still open year round and (hopefully) making money.
Just an idea...
^That seems a little too much like Great Wolf Lodge. You don't to take away any of their buisness. It would look as if the park is coping them since they are so close. Good idea though.
Well same general principle of a resort with an indoor water park and convention center. But trust me on this these resorts can survive with many in the same area. Just look at the Wisconsin Dells and to a lesser extent Sandusky OH (where I am currently living which is why I know so much about it, we currently have 5 in town alone and the Dells has even more!)
And as for it looking like the park is copying them, so what? They are not so much copying Great Wolf as cashing in on a growing trend in the amusement/resort industry. Personally I think any resort that is over say 300 rooms needs an indoor water park! It doesn't have to be the size of Kalahari or Great Wolf but something along the lines of Maui Sands, Coco Key, or Castaway Bay would be fine. Though I do think the Williamsburg area (and Busch Gardens specifically) can handle something along the size of Kalahari or Great Wolf.
And as for it looking like the park is copying them, so what? They are not so much copying Great Wolf as cashing in on a growing trend in the amusement/resort industry. Personally I think any resort that is over say 300 rooms needs an indoor water park! It doesn't have to be the size of Kalahari or Great Wolf but something along the lines of Maui Sands, Coco Key, or Castaway Bay would be fine. Though I do think the Williamsburg area (and Busch Gardens specifically) can handle something along the size of Kalahari or Great Wolf.
Honestly, they don't have the space for an indoor water park and convention center and resort. Secondly, their creating a new competitor Great Wolf Lodge. Also, they already have a water park. Water Country USA. It would probably really confuse the GP which water park considering some guests still think WCUSA is connected to BGW.
Cedar Point has an outdoor/indoor water park on property. Sandusky itself has Castaway Bay (Cedar Point's property) and Kalahari Resort, so Williamsburg could support two indoor water parks if they really wanted.
I'm sure BGW has the room to build a nice indoor waterpark with a few decent slides and a play structure.
I actually like the indoor water park resort idea more than the year round operation idea. It actually seems more valid at this point, especially with more parks adding them.
- Don't even get me started on Wisconsin Dells. That place has at least 50 water parks.
I'm sure BGW has the room to build a nice indoor waterpark with a few decent slides and a play structure.
I actually like the indoor water park resort idea more than the year round operation idea. It actually seems more valid at this point, especially with more parks adding them.
- Don't even get me started on Wisconsin Dells. That place has at least 50 water parks.
I'm going to be a bit of a pain in the ass with this subject, and I don't mean to seem meticulous or mean, I actually agree with NetDVN (especially since he pretty much agreed with me ) But there are currently 5 indoor water parks in Sandusky: Castaway Bay, Maui Sands, Rain, Kalahari, and Great Wolf Lodge. And as stated above the Dells has MANY more than that. So I don't see a reason that Williamsburg could not support more than 1 (or 2, or 3, or ...)
I actually really enjoy these parks and think they are the next step for resorts and water parks in general. Any water park large enough to draw people from outside the immediate area should just incorporate a resort. And any resort should incorporate at least some features of a water park.
And to really take the concept to the extreme how about an indoor ski resort, or indoor amusement park!
As for space issue, I really don't know how much room they have but I have seen them place water parks in pretty small resorts, a small one really doesn't take all that much extra space. Now something the size of Kalahari in Sandusky (America's Largest Indoor Water Park, and as I said before I think the area could support something along those lines) yeah they probably don't have the space, but something along the lines of Coco Key or Rain they could make it work. And of course they could always build up instead of out, put the water park on the ground floor (probably bottom 2) then rooms above it. I don't think that has been done yet but with good engineering it could work.
And last thing on this post, if the park itself wanted to go full year an indoor water park actually would help with that. Offer a ticket that gets them in the park itself, most rides are closed and even most shops and restaurants, but on the same ticket they can visit the indoor water park which would give value for their tickets that they would not be getting other wise. And if they park closes because of weather there is still something to do so they don't lose out trying to do rain tickets.
*My definition of resort (vs. hotel or motel) is anything over 300 rooms that has all the amenities on property. That means restaurants, bars, arcade, water park*
) But there are currently 5 indoor water parks in Sandusky: Castaway Bay, Maui Sands, Rain, Kalahari, and Great Wolf Lodge. And as stated above the Dells has MANY more than that. So I don't see a reason that Williamsburg could not support more than 1 (or 2, or 3, or ...)I actually really enjoy these parks and think they are the next step for resorts and water parks in general. Any water park large enough to draw people from outside the immediate area should just incorporate a resort. And any resort should incorporate at least some features of a water park.
And to really take the concept to the extreme how about an indoor ski resort, or indoor amusement park!
As for space issue, I really don't know how much room they have but I have seen them place water parks in pretty small resorts, a small one really doesn't take all that much extra space. Now something the size of Kalahari in Sandusky (America's Largest Indoor Water Park, and as I said before I think the area could support something along those lines) yeah they probably don't have the space, but something along the lines of Coco Key or Rain they could make it work. And of course they could always build up instead of out, put the water park on the ground floor (probably bottom 2) then rooms above it. I don't think that has been done yet but with good engineering it could work.
And last thing on this post, if the park itself wanted to go full year an indoor water park actually would help with that. Offer a ticket that gets them in the park itself, most rides are closed and even most shops and restaurants, but on the same ticket they can visit the indoor water park which would give value for their tickets that they would not be getting other wise. And if they park closes because of weather there is still something to do so they don't lose out trying to do rain tickets.
*My definition of resort (vs. hotel or motel) is anything over 300 rooms that has all the amenities on property. That means restaurants, bars, arcade, water park
*
I don't know if this is at all related to the resort, but as we were riding the train (see Howl-o-scream post) I looked back into the woods. There, I saw all kinds of stuff. Things wrapped in white covers, blue accordian lifts, stuff like that. I didn't look like much, but I decided to post it in case anyone knows what is going on.
Hoopla said:I don't know if this is at all related to the resort, but as we were riding the train (see Howl-o-scream post) I looked back into the woods. There, I saw all kinds of stuff. Things wrapped in white covers, blue accordian lifts, stuff like that. I didn't look like much, but I decided to post it in case anyone knows what is going on.
I'm assuming this would be HOS related. I know they "cleared" the bone yard but it could be used for staging purposes at this point. Or maybe even by a long shot related to the sight test balloon the other day.
But seeing as SEAS isn't doing so hot, and the park is cutting left and right.... I REALLY doubt this is resort related.
But hey, I guess you never know lately. Not like anyone saw the sight balloon coming.
tursiops said:
A lot of here have been saying that... Problem is, SEAS doesn't have the funds to back such a venture right now. Unless they partner with someone.... Which was on the table at one point.
Yes, that's true, but if you are a local you know the kind of cheap, stingy, shady crap kingsmill is trying to pull right now you know that's not likely to happen. I'm even more pissed an xanterra than Blackstone. All i can say is screw Inbev. They messed up so many things. It's not just the parks or the resort either, it's a community thing.
I'm curious here, now that SeaWorld has announced that it's looking at building resorts at it's theme parks AND the fact that Xanterra wants to sell Kingsmill Resort (source), what do you think the chances are that SEAs would be interested in purchasing Kingsmill since one of their strategies for achieving this goal is through acquisition? Thoughts?