Old Dominion Line

[Mushroom]

RE: Old Dominion Line

From Kings Dominion's website:

The Old Dominion stream train ride operated at Kings Dominion from the park's opening in 1975 through the 1994 season.

This is on the Kings Dominion's website under the Kings Dominion Trivia page. Now we can confirm that the Old Dominion Line operated from 1975 - 1994. Just thought I'd throw that out there to settle this. Good to know

Link - Kings Dominion Trivia This is actually a pretty cool page they have!

 

[Mushroom]

I stumbled across a picture of the train in action while browsing RCDB!

If you look closely at the bottom right corner, you can totally see the red train out on the tracks going through the Grove/Wayne's World area in the woods, plus some more track in the woods. Now we know a bit more about the train and what it was like! It's too bad it's gone, it really looks like a nice ride through the park. Oh well, at least we have Snoopy's Junction...

 

[Zachary]

Good eye! I take it that it ran through the area that the wild mouse sits on now?

 

[Mushroom]

Ah, I didn't catch that! Also looks like Windseeker sits near the train's old area. If you look even more closely, it looks like the train is just departing from the station, and there's one of those water towers and a railroad-crossing area right there. If that's the station, it looks to be about where the Xtreme Skyfler is today. That makes sense, condsidering we found that the train was taken out for the Skyfler (pretty crummy move, if you asked me...) And since it's riight on the edge of the Grove and Old Virginia, and it's pretty forested over there, so I guess that is where the station is...

Ah well, again, at least we have this...

Spoiler

EDIT: Also, I just noticed that the RCDB ribbon cuts off a good part of the train. I just replaced it with the original image, where you can much more clearly see the train and what appears to be the station.

 

[Ludwig II]

Something cool I just noticed...
This photo was taken in 1994, its last year of operation. Don't know why they would trash it, especially if that's what they were seeing when they were removing it. Looks much more natural in the grove than a gigantic steel arc or a bright yellow wild mouse.

 

[I305Evan]

I have mixed feelings on the train location. I like it, but at the same time, I don't. Maybe if it went around Hurler or something along that way. It just looks placed in an open area.

 

[Mushroom]

Yeah, although I do wish they had some transportation ride to be nice and relaxing in general. In fact, maybe something like this Zamperla People Express Train would be a nice addition to provide a nice scenic tour around the park and give some in-park transportation. Come to think of it, this might be a fairly good solution to a problem like this. Think about it, a high-quality but low-maintenance train-themed tram-like vehicle would be a really easy and cool addition to take people on a train ride throughout the park. It's a trackless train, so they wouldn't need tracks or anything. Just plan a route, get the trams/trains, and put up a few "stations" throughout the park for an easy-yet-spectacular train ride throughout the park. There may be some flaws (like how it would maneuver through the park), but it would still be a really neat addition to the lineup that wouldn't take too much!

 

[IndyRacingNut]

^^^^ Absolutely ZERO chance of that happening at KD. The chances some opportunist would "accidentally" fall right in front of it, get hit and then sue for millions of dollars is too great.

 

[I305Evan]

I think the people movers are more for the bog parking lots like BGW or Dollywood. Or if they had their own concrete\ asphault roadway.

 

[Mushroom]

^^Yeah, stupidity is just...stupid. Heck, somebody died on Shockwave because he purposely got out of restraints (I *wonder* what would be the outcome... :dodgy: ). However, I was thinking more of them just clearing a path beyond where the general public walks, and that's where the train would go - they wouldn't need to do anything except have it go along said path, so it could just go through the back portion and make its occasional way into the pedestrian area, similar to how it is with real trains at BGW to load/unload. Yeah, there are still plenty of flaws, but it's just a concept that would be really nice to have at a park that's really been getting their act together lately. Maybe one of those smaller CP Huntington trains by Chance even (although that would require track and all that hassle...) ?

Makes me wonder, if KD was willing to replace their train with a giant metal arch for thrill seekers, I hope Busch Gardens doesn't catch on and replace their trains with something like this...

Spoiler

Thankfully, I'm kidding here. The train is a very useful, lovable, and popular ride they have, and BGW knows it. Don't get any ideas, Busch Gardens...

 

[mwhinva]

Keep in mind that KD's railroad was not used as an in-park transportation system. The train station was where the extreme sky-flyer launch pads are located now. I will try to give you a short description of the track location using the current landmarks in the park.

The train departed the train station heading south toward what is now the Ricochet ride site passing just to the east of the Rock Shop; the track then made a gradual turn to the east where it ran parallel to the Rebel Yell (about 25-30 yards south - in the woods); the train continued east until the mid-point of the Rebel Yell (about where the path in Water Works goes underneath the coaster); the train track then turned back to the south where it made a large, gradual u-turn about where the zoom flume and older wave pool is located now, headed back toward the Hurler's first turn after its first drop; the track then veered to the west then north to go around the Hurler and what is now the back part of the Dinosaur's Alive site; the track then headed back east and then south again back to the train station passing between the White Water Canyon and the Kings Dominion Theater to the north and east / DA and Hurler to the south and west.

The train ride was originally a show where a melodrama was played out between a couple actors on the train and actors at a couple sites along the back part of the track. The train would stop about halfway around and the actors would do their stuff. It was sort of a damsel in distress with a villain and some family members involved. I don't remember the plot, it was a LONG time ago! This type of show ran for the first 3-4 seasons from when the park first opened. KD might have modified the show a couple times during that period. The show then evolved to a "Wild West" type of stunt show where, again, the train would stop mid-way through and the show was performed for the folks on board. This stunt show ran for 2-3 seasons.

I believe Kings Dominion discontinued having any sort of show on the train by the early 80's (82-83). The train ride became just a ride through what was then all woods. The two trains were "The Patrick Henry" (blue) and "The Stonewall Jackson" (reddish-orange). One train and cars went to BGT and the other train and cars are being used at some church owned camp in Oklahoma (Christmas Train).

Many people want the train to be brought back to Kings Dominion. But, given how much the park has expanded since it was taken out; the cost of installing RR crossings and/or under-over passes to bypass the pedestrian walkways; and the general safety requirements and extra staffing; I have a very hard time seeing the train coming back. Especially, as in-park transportation system.

I think an elevated monorail or a new cable car system (skyride) would be a better alternative for an in-park transportation system than bringing the steam train back.

 

[MAZ]

I remember the train quite well. I also remember the old west show. It was 2-3 minutes long and there were some 'ghost town' type buildings as well as a graveyard on a hillside with white crosses and such. The show was really neat. There was a lot of shooting and running around. At one point, a 2nd floor shooter fell out of a window into a carriage full of hay. I remember some rope swinging and lassos being used too. Other than this show in a small open meadow, the train ride was completely in the woods. In the early years, the only sign of civilization during the whole ride was the emergence of the grizzly at the very end.

You are correct in saying that the train that was, will never return. However, a redesigned track layout with a station could easily be put back in that could resemble what it was. 90% of the original train ride layout is still just woods. The tracks may still be there for all I know. One station and a big loop of track is all it would take.

Putting a station in old virginia and sending a train through the woods all the way around to Intimidator would be cool. It would have to utilize turn-a-rounds on each end with only 1 train but hey, throw a wild west show in there somewhere in the middle on a separate piece of track and you could add a 2nd train! Have the show traveling in 1 direction and bypass it on the way back. Then you have got yourself something unique once again! (Just a silly idea from somebody who misses the train )

 

[Nicole]

You know, Cedar Point has all of those ghost town sets along part of its train tracks.  It is, however, still clearly more a transport than an entertainment ride.  Regardless, my point is that under the current ownership there is a precedent for a fusion of both.

 

[mtpelepele]

I remember the train quite well. I also remember the old west show. It was 2-3 minutes long and there were some 'ghost town' type buildings as well as a graveyard on a hillside with white crosses and such.

Those white crosses are one of the only remnants left visible of the train.  While in line for Hurler, look at the small wooded hill behind the coaster. There are a couple remnants of a fence, as well as a couple of faded white stakes.  The cross pieces are long gone.

However, a redesigned track layout with a station could easily be put back in that could resemble what it was. 90% of the original train ride layout is still just woods. The tracks may still be there for all I know.

The tracks are long gone. The last remaining piece I knew of disappeared with Dinosaurs. There was a maintenance road that still had a crossing set in it that's been torn out now.

 

[sonofbaconador]

RE: Old train pics

Hi, I was on google earth and pulled up an old photo from 1994 during the construction of Hurler and you can still see the train tracks. You can also see the engine shed with the old coaches to the bottom right

And here's some more pictures of the #552 in its old and current state as well as some old #601 photos ( just randomly found online)

 

[I305Evan]

Very nice find!

I decided to merge the "Old Train Pics" with the Old Dominion Line thread to keep everything pertaining to this attraction in one place.

I would love for the park to bring something like this back in the coming years.

 

[MAZ]

Somebody please point this out to KD/CF officials...Hint hint, nudge nudge.
For Sale!
http://discoverlivesteam.com/discoverforsale/forsale/1_riley2/index.htm

 

[wombat96]

137,000 is a really good deal for a train like that!

 

[mwhinva]

Well, based on the pictures, it looks like the former "Stonewall Jackson" (red) Train is the one that went to the church camp in Oklahoma (Christmas train) and the "Patrick Henry" (blue) train is the one that went to BGT.

 

[sonofbaconador]

Here's some fatcs that some of you might not know. "Paramount's Kings Dominion #552 and #601 (north of Richmond, Virginia, which opened in 1975) were basically copies of PKI #19 and #12 respectively, but the stacks were made more full and prototypical (#552, from the certain angles, is a stunningly well proportioned engine and is my favorite of all of Crown's work). Both had wood cabs which looked like the steel PKI cabs. #552, the "Stonewall Jackson", (one fluted dome, one Crown dome, diamond stack, arched windows, round cab roof) was red with blue domes and a blonde wood cab. #601 (two Crown domes, balloon stack, gothic windows, gabled cab roof) was blue with red wheels and domes and a blonde wood cab. Uncommon to Crown practice, the engines had jacketed cylinders and steam chests. Does anyone know the name of #601 and the name of the railroad when they were running at Kings Dominion? The railroad was a one station ride through animation similar to Kings Island, and for a while the tracks crossed the queue line of the Grizzly roller coaster at grade, which I'm sure made for some interesting operations. A member of the Kings Island crew with which I worked told me the Kings Dominion engines were in pretty sad shape when he saw them. I'm told by another source that ridership was dismal (the train only ran a few hours per day towards the end) and at the close of the 1994 or 1995 season the railroad was ripped up and replaced with another roller coaster. Two stories have been heard: (1) Busch Gardens Tampa bought both trains and the Dry Gulch Railroad bought one from them, or (2) both trains were to have gone to Dry Gulch and somehow BGT got one. At any rate, #601 went to BGT (I have not seen a picture of it down there), and #552, six coaches, and the PKD track went to the Dry Gulch RR in the spring of 1996 at a religious retreat called Camp Dry Gulch on Lake Hudson near Adair, Oklahoma (the camp's website features #552 in the masthead). There, it is operating on 1.4 miles of rugged track along with a couple of restored 1940's era Porters. #552's cab encountered a tree on its way from Virginia and all the woodwork had to be replaced. It was also repainted with blue boiler jacket and red domes. At least some of the coaches at Dry Gulch (the steep grades and tight curves limit them to three car trains) have been "winterized" with aisles and removable windows for use on their popular Christmas Train." -Denis M Larrick former engineer for Kings Island

http://web.archive.org/web/20021113181429/http://www.trainweb.org/parktrains/history/crown/latelist.html