Those bogies are close, but nothing else lines up.
I did make a pretty big discovery though. The Nelis' coaster has a dramatically less common wheel bogie configuration than what's found on the Como Town Miler (thus ruling out that theory).
Each of its bogies have two running wheels and a single, center-mounted upstop wheel. I have only seen a couple examples of this configuration elsewhere.
Out of every Miler Manufacturing traditional oval kiddie coaster on RCDB with photos, only TWO definitely share this style of wheel bogie:
Both #1 and #2 are ruled out by simple date analysis. You can actually see where the second one has had its lead car bogies modified to incorporate a second upstop too—pretty entertaining. For #3 I really can't tell for sure what kind of wheel bogies it has but the one on the yellow car does maybe look center mounted? #3 is ruled out anyway though due to the height of the layout. #4 and #5 don't have suitable images of their trains on RCDB so I have no idea what bogies they featured, but both are ruled out by dates anyway. Don't have a good enough photo of #6 to tell what bogies it has, but it's ruled out based on the track height issue discussed a handful of posts ago. I think I may see double upstops on #7, but it is incredibly hard to tell—dates are probably feasible on this one though? Needs more research.
With all of that done, I'm a little spooked about this Miler theory. I could only find two examples on RCDB that definitely share this bogie design and both seem to have HIGHLY questionable provenance. Meanwhile, the vast, VAST majority of Miler Manufacturing coasters have the double upstops seen on the examples like Arnold's and Como's. Does anyone know if there were other Miler clones built by a different, non-Schiff manufacturer during this time...? Maybe these single upstop coasters were just really early Milers? The rest of the chassis and wheel assembly does look identical to the Milers with double upstops...
Either way, I think my RCDB survey shows that, unless #7 pans out, Nelis' coaster doesn't have any photos on RCDB pre-Skyrock Farm. Search probably just got a lot harder...
First off, I'll lead by disproving #7. I found this photo of what I believe is almost certainly the unknown Miler listed on RCDB for Playland. It's another double upstop Miler. That photo is from 1952 so, apparently, Miler was making these coasters with two upstop wheels very early on.
Anyway, with that out of the way, I super broke my brain this evening by going through every last coaster on RCDB tagged either "Oval" or "Kiddie" that has a photo. Why? A number of possible Milers/Schiffs/Molina coasters do not have a manufacturer listed on RCDB as the manufacturer is unclear. I wanted to be sure that there were no known, photographically-documented-by-RCDB coasters out there that match the Nelis coaster better than the two likely Miler examples highlighted previously with single upstops.
At this point, I am very confident that, unless Schiff or Molina offered a substantially altered model vs those that have been documented by RCDB, the Nelis coaster is not a Schiff or a Molina. Furthermore, I am very confident that no other kiddie coaster with discernable photos on RCDB comes close to matching the Nelis coaster like Jalisco's and Hovatter's coasters do. Given how similar the other parts of the Nelis, Jalisco, and Hovatter trains are to other Milers and the fact that I could not find anything else from another manufacturer that even comes close, I do think it is overwhelming likely that all three of these single-upstop coasters are, in fact, Milers.
From here on out, the search will become very difficult, unfortunately. The best course of action forward is likely to do what I did with the Playland coaster and try to find photos of the other defunct Milers listed on RCDB without photos which have timelines that could match to compare their wheel assemblies with the Nelis coaster. Not an easy task for most of them I imagine. Even if we were able to check every listed Miler on RCDB for single upstops, I imagine there is a very good chance we still wouldn't find this coaster though. Given that it was likely, originally a trailer mounted model, there's probably a fairly high likelihood that it was owned by a showman and traveled for most of its life. May take someone with some inside knowledge of the fair circuit up in the Minnesota region to make headway there.
I would be very curious to know if E&F Miler could provide any further, non-publicly-accessible info as well. If you end up reaching out to them for guidance on restoration, parts availability, etc, please let us know @jpnelis! It would be excellent to have an answer directly from the spiritual successor of the original manufacturer regarding this single upstop Miler mystery! And just broadly speaking, if you do go through with a restoration, I hope you'll keep us updated every so often! I know a lot of us would love to follow along and come check it out if/when you get it up and running!
Also, for all the thoosies: Whenever you come across an old photo of an oval kiddie coaster with that boxy Miler Manufacturing track in the future, check if it has an independent axel and then count the upstops! I imagine our best chance of IDing this coaster eventually will come from someone stumbling across a photo of another single upstop Miler in the future. They do seem to be VERY rare!
Anyway, not surrendering, but I'm pretty much out of the straightforward leads to chase I think.
I can't say away... And I'm really glad I didn't. I really, trulymay have found it!!
Before I get to the really exciting stuff, let's talk about Miler supports. Amongst the Miler kiddie coasters documented on RCDB, there's a large variety of not only different support designs, but a large variety of layout heights too. I've probably identified three different, rough height buckets I'd place all of these coasters into.
First off, short Miler kiddie coasters are really goddamn short. The lowest points in their layouts essentially sit on the ground. Kiddie Coaster at Lakeside Amusement Park is a good example of this. Note that without the little risers/footers Lakeside installed, the lowest track segments would essentially be sitting on the ground. Rolling Thunder at Tahoe Amusement Park is a good example of what this category looks like minus the risers. Based on the coasters that have been documented with photos on RCDB, this is probably the second most popular variety.
Next we have what I'm calling medium height Miler kiddie coasters. The lowest points on Milers like this maintain some height, but they're probably only coming to about waist level on the average adult when there aren't any risers involved. Little Dipper at Castle Park is a good example of a medium height Miler. Based on what has photos on RCDB, this seems to be the most popular Miler kiddie coaster height class.
Then we have what I'd identity as a tall Miler. Frankly, I have this category for only two coasters we've seen photos of up until this point (the implication!!): Dorney's and Nelis'. These two are honestly freakishly tall. I suspect Dorney's was that way because it was a permanent installation that may have been dealing with some terrain? Why the Nelis coaster would be though, that does confuse me quite a bit.
Because of that really weird, obviously retrofitted, wooden lift support situation at Skyrock, I have been working on the assumption that the Nelis coaster was a trailer mounted model that was stripped from its trailer at some point prior to installation at Skyrock. Now that I've really taken a close look at the heights of all of these Miler kiddie coasters—many of which are trailer mounted models—I now have severe doubts that the Nelis coaster was ever actually trailer mounted.
Being super tall would be bad for a portable coaster—it makes it larger and heavier to store and move, way harder to assemble and disassemble, harder to stabilize, etc. Plus, the portable model was standardized—we see tons of examples with the known portable Milers—do we really think there was a super rare (one-off?), super tall, portable version? And remember, it's not like the coaster actually uses this height—the lowest points are just super elevated off the ground.
So that got me thinking... could the Nelis coaster have actually been a custom park model with extra long supports designed for its original placement/terrain—seemingly like Dorney's was...? Maybe the lift support oddity on the Nelis coaster is actually the result of previously being installed with a permanent station building/platform or similar? Definitely food for thought...
Especially because... uh... I've been busy... and...
I FOUND ANOTHER SINGLE UPSTOP MILER...
AND IT IS ALSO FREAKISHLY TALL...
A N D THE TIMELINE WORKS!
But... plot twist... I ACTUALLY FOUND TWO! Sorta... maybe... we'll get there.
Oh, and as a bonus, along the way, I (painstakingly) dug up media of three other Miler kiddie coasters which don't have photos on RCDB and successfully ruled out that trio—so get ready to see some new, novel Milers!
Let's start with the methodology. As I said in my previous post, the best path forward is probably to try to find media/info on the RCDB Miler Manufacturing kiddie coasters without photos. That's the quest I set out on. Here are the Miler kiddie coasters on RCDB without photos that I'm tracking:
Roller Coaster @ Fairyland Park (Miami, FL)
unknown @ Bayville Adventure Park (Bayville, NY)
Roller Coaster @ Funderland Amusement Park (Sacramento, CA)
unknown @ Playland Pier (Coeur d'Alene, ID)
Roller Coaster @ Police Benevolent Association Park (Hollywood, FL)
Kiddie Dipper @ Jantzen Beach Amusement Park (Portland, OR)
unknown @ Playland at the Beach (San Francisco, CA)
unknown @ Six Gun Territory (Willow Grove, PA)
unknown @ Gayway (Seaside, OR)
Roller Coaster @ Fantasy Farm Amusement Park (Middletown, OH)
unknown @ Roseland Park (Canandaigua, NY)
#10 and #11 are out immediately based on RCDB info. #10 is the same coaster from Williams Grove with double upstops. #11 stopped running Miler trains in the 70s.
I have been unable to find photos, video, or info-suitable-to-rule-out #1, #5, #6, or #9. Interestingly, two of these are in Oregon and two are in South Florida. I tried both specific and broad searches for all four though and, thus far, I've got nothing.
Now for the successes! Let's start with a banger.
I was able to find a few pieces of media showing #2, the kiddie coaster in Bayville, NY. This first photo shows that this installation is one of the elusive single-upstop Milers just like Nelis'.
And remember, this is THE FIRST TIME I've seen one of these tall Milers with single-upstops other than the Nelis coaster! This is, by far, the strongest candidate we have so far in my estimation.
Anyway, back to the list.
#3 I found. There's a very short clip of it at the end of this video. It's another short Miler—can't count the upstops from that footage, but the height rules it out.
#4 I found. This thumbnail of an archival photo from a local museum collection shows it's a short-height Miler and I believe I can maybe make out double-upstops, but that's much harder to say with confidence.
#7 is the next coaster I found. This video has a short clip of the coaster which seems to feature double-upstops, but even if I'm wrong on that, once again, the short height of this example rules it out.
#8. Time for the embarrassment of riches. Despite searching high and low, I've only managed to find a very short video clip of this ride. It's cut from a much longer promo video for the park that was filmed back in the 50s. Great 20 minute watch if you're interested in old parks! Anyway, here's the 12 second, clipped version:
This is another bizarrely tall Miler and, if you look super closely, this is also another single-upstop Miler too!
So now we suddenly have two other long-legged, single-upstop Miler kiddie coasters to work with—and again, aside from the Skyrock/Nelis coaster, these are the ONLY examples exhibiting both of these characteristics that we've found.
Now, RCDB has very limited info on either the Bayville Amusements/Bayville Adventure Park or the Willow Park/Six Gun Territory Milers. I found 50s era media for the Willow Park example and 60s era media for the Bayville coaster. According to RCDB, the Willow Park coaster operated from "1950 - 1956 to 1956 - 1958." Obviously not sure how RCDB got that date range, but it does sound like everything we know of this coaster came out of the 50s. Then, for the Bayville coaster, RCDB and I are almost certainly working from the same photo as RCDB mentions a photo dated 5/1967. This is the only dated media I've been able to find for the Bayville Miler and 1967 is the only year RCDB is sure it was present at the park.
Given that the known timelines don't overlap at all and that Willow Park was located right north of Philadelphia and it's not like Bayville (on Long Island in NY) is exactly a world away, I think it is at least relatively likely that the Willow Park coaster IS the Bayville coaster—it seems plausible to me that there was only one of these freakishly tall Milers with single-upstops made—likely purpose-built for permanent installation at Willow Park.
Now, that is only a hypothesis, of course. I don't have any direct evidence and I haven't done a super deep dive into attempting to disprove that theory yet—maybe there are support or train anomalies that could be identified to disprove this idea. That's some homework I have to deal with.
So now, whether my theory about the Willow Park and Bayville coasters being the same is true or not, are either of these the Skyrock/Nelis coaster? Obviously, timeline-wise, it works. Thus far the Willow Park coaster is unaccounted for after the 50s and the Bayville coaster is unaccounted for after the 60s. The Nelis coaster appeared at Skyrock in about 2010. We're dealing with a 50 or 60 year gap.
If we had photos of the station or lift of the Willow Park and/or Bayville coaster(s), I think that could be very informative as it could match/explain the oddities we see with the lift on the Skyrock coaster. Beyond that, I think I need to spend some time analyzing supports between the two newly-found, long-legged, single-upstop Milers and the Skyrock/Nelis coaster. That could be a solid way to disprove my current working hypothesis that all three of these are actually the same ride. More homework.
Oh, and I will mention this one final tidbit too: If you look at the Bayville coaster, note the bright, cherry red interior. Now look at the areas in the Skyrock auction photos where the blue paint has peeled on the interior of the cars... Really makes you think, huh?
Wow, I'm impressed. At least Bayville Adventure Park is still in business. I'd be curious if they have records from the 1960s still. I'm also curious if anyone at E&F Miler has records from that era as well.
View attachment 43543
These cars are in such horrible shape we may end up re-fabricating these from the basic chassis on up. So we'd love to find another non-operating unit where they might have been stored in better shape. And to get the fifth car which was missing.
Could the painted-over lettering "Sky Rock and Roller" in this photo be a clue as to a previous location to Skyrock? Do we know what the ride at Como Town was called?
Could the painted-over lettering "Sky Rock and Roller" in this photo be a clue as to a previous location to Skyrock? Do we know what the ride at Como Town was called?
Thanks for the photos @jpnelis! Don't think I have any other leads right now, but if more photos surface of possible matches, previous paint schemes could definitely be a great way to get much closer to a positive ID vs just a "maybe this is it" situation like we're in at the moment!
Hi all, wanted to throw my info in here to help with things as much as possible. My name is Jon Roost, I'm the Regional Rep for the American Coaster Enthusiasts that oversees both Michigan and Ohio. I'm local to this park so I reached out to Joe about offering help from myself and ACE and he invited me to come out for a tour of the park and to get a look at the coaster. Here's what was learned:
The lift motor has a date of manufacture of October 2006.
It's extremely likely this is a Miler model as both the Schiff and Molina cars used a slightly different front car that has an extension. That isn't present on Nelis' lead car.
Joe posted the colors we found yesterday. I did some color correction on the media found of both Bayville and Six Gun Territory's coasters, and both are a potential match (Bayville has the correct blue supports, while Six Gun Territory appears to have the matching reds and yellows). There's a chance these two are actually the same coaster, but that's going to be near impossible to prove.
As for whether it was trailer-mounted or not, I feel confident in saying this was not trailer-mounted. The trailer-mounted Milers typically sat very close to the ground. While the fact that the trailer typically sat below the lift (where the missing supports are on this one) I think it's highly likely that the lift supports were replaced with wood when the new lift motor was installed which accounts for that change.
This is one heck of a great find. Kiddie coasters usually don't get a lot of excitement, but this one's got those attributes that make it more unique.
