Kings Dominion Kills WinterFest

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Interesting opinion of yours. While a mighty task to get set-up, that rink was making good money from all accounts I know of.

I also really loved the scenic of the rink. I'd take it 1000x over more lit up trees and lights, something the area already had to complement to rink, and something the rest of the park was already plentiful of.
 
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Just to note: today would have been opening night of WinterFest had Six Flags not cut the event.

Also, to add to the conversation, ice skating was for sure one of the reasons why the event was cut. It was allegedly a massive money pit. However, it still continues to baffle me why they didn’t just try to keep the event running without the rink.
 
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mtorange said:
Just to note: today would have been opening night of WinterFest had Six Flags not cut the event.

Also, to add to the conversation, ice skating was for sure one of the reasons why the event was cut. It was allegedly a massive money pit. However, it still continues to baffle me why they didn’t just try to keep the event running without the rink.
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Sometimes HQ wants to completely cut something like that and being able to use that one thing to say the whole event is a loss is what they will do.

I’m with you though. Should have just cut the rink, shrunk it massively, or looked into the non-ice solutions (I interned at a ball park that did that last one).
 
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warfelg said:
Sometimes HQ wants to completely cut something like that and being able to use that one thing to say the whole event is a loss is what they will do.

I’m with you though. Should have just cut the rink, shrunk it massively, or looked into the non-ice solutions (I interned at a ball park that did that last one).
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If KD isn't making money on the rink, gate entry, or food, it's hard to justify much beyond the Santa setup. An ice rink that isn't basically running full time is going to be hard to make money on, even at the prices KD was charging.

Only way Winterfeat works financially is if it's an upcharge on regular season passes to cover event costs and dining plans aren't usable.
 
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warfelg said:
Sometimes HQ wants to completely cut something like that and being able to use that one thing to say the whole event is a loss is what they will do.

I’m with you though. Should have just cut the rink, shrunk it massively, or looked into the non-ice solutions (I interned at a ball park that did that last one).
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The first sentence is what I 100% believe happened. It’s a shame SF didn’t try other options before cutting the event entirely. I’d call it SF’s worst mistake of the 2025 offseason (up there with Kingda Ka’s removal… unsure of which I’d place in 1st as they’re completely different from each other).
 
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It also looks as if many of the decorations were also sent to Six Flags Fiesta Texas (the bear from St. Nick’s Pics, all of the stuff from Jack Frost’s Zone, and the Santa and reindeer from the front gate are just a few props that appear in this video). The guy in the video notes how they are all brand new.

It saddens me to see these props outside of Doswell.
 
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The trashed decorations thing really gets me. Who made that decision? Even if there’s a 0.01% chance of a holiday event ever returning to the park, they have a storage warehouse that was built specifically for Winterfest’s decorations. What reason could there possibly have been to not just shove the decorations all back there and let them gather dust? So stupid. It literally makes no sense.
 
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Mushroom said:
The trashed decorations thing really gets me. Who made that decision? Even if there’s a 0.01% chance of a holiday event ever returning to the park, they have a storage warehouse that was built specifically for Winterfest’s decorations. What reason could there possibly have been to not just shove the decorations all back there and let them gather dust? So stupid. It literally makes no sense.
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Agreed. Like, even if you shipped things near by for short term while you rethink the event it’s fine. But shipping things across the country and trashing a bunch is a nail in the coffin that it’s never coming back.
 
rswashdc said:
If KD isn't making money on the rink, gate entry, or food, it's hard to justify much beyond the Santa setup. An ice rink that isn't basically running full time is going to be hard to make money on, even at the prices KD was charging.

Only way Winterfeat works financially is if it's an upcharge on regular season passes to cover event costs and dining plans aren't usable.
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Exactly

Before BGW went to memberships, there was an up charge for Christmastown on the season pass. Winterfest should have been set up the same way.

The dining plans are the absolute downfall of the event. At that point of the season, they are just giving away free meals to everyone on the plans.

Years ago Cedar fair investor relations stated that they recognized season pass revenue in full after five visits. I assume the dining plan was the same. So accounting wise, these late season events lose money if it’s just attracting season passholders
 
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Thriller said:
The dining plans are the absolute downfall of the event.
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When legacy Six Flags first started Holiday in the Park, they did not include dining plans during the event. Not only were food sales low, it killed all of the other in park spending. And Winterfest had (or has in case of the parks still running it) no shortage of upcharges.
Thriller said:
Before BGW went to memberships, there was an up charge for Christmastown on the season pass. Winterfest should have been set up the same way.
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Maybe, but the event would have to be set up very differently. There is no way people would tolerate upcharge offerings (specialty low capacity experiences excluded) at an upcharge event. The only reason Christmas Town was so successful as an upcharge event is because they spent a ton of money on the live entertainment. I can assure you, an ice rink is cheap compared to the number of musicians Christmas Town used to employ.
 
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jscll said:
When legacy Six Flags first started Holiday in the Park, they did not include dining plans during the event. Not only were food sales low, it killed all of the other in park spending. And Winterfest had (or has in case of the parks still running it) no shortage of upcharges.
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I really don't like this Holiday in the Park comparison. Holiday in the Parks were dramatically worse offerings than WinterFests, they were notably more rides-focused, less family oriented, put zero focus on food and beverage, and legacy Six Flags food fucking sucks. It seems very obvious to me that people wouldn't be interested in purchasing garbage food from Six Flags.

If done correctly, F&B programming would be an attraction at the event. BGW's Christmas Town did this very well early on. The Herschend park Christmas events are still super great at this. If you're running a good, family-focused event, and put work into your menus to create original, seasonally-appropriate, desirable dishes and drinks, people will buy. Again, case and point, Herschend.

jscll said:
Maybe, but the event would have to be set up very differently. There is no way people would tolerate upcharge offerings (specialty low capacity experiences excluded) at an upcharge event. The only reason Christmas Town was so successful as an upcharge event is because they spent a ton of money on the live entertainment. I can assure you, an ice rink is cheap compared to the number of musicians Christmas Town used to employ.
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Big disagree.

First off, BGW has successfully sold upcharge offerings at upcharge events just fine. I can point to many other examples too. It may actually be EASIER to sell upcharge offerings at an upcharge event, in fact, as you're already getting tons of people to open their wallets and complete a transaction that they wouldn't have normally.

Secondly, I know a good number of people who loved Christmas Town from the start who didn't go for the shows. They went for the lights, ambiance, vibes, shopping (RIP), dining (RIP), animal attractions (RIP), etc. Additionally, KD's WinterFest actually did spend heavily on Christmas entertainment. All-in, I wouldn't be surprised if KD spent a similar amount on entertainment at WinterFest as BGW did in the same year of CMT. Obviously BGW was spending those dollars far better, but I honestly don't think KD was cheapening out—I think they were just bad at entertainment development.
 
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Zachary said:
If done correctly, F&B programming would be an attraction at the event. BGW's Christmas Town did this very well early on. The Herschend park Christmas events are still super great at this. If you're running a good, family-focused event, and put work into your menus to create original, seasonally-appropriate, desirable dishes and drinks, people will buy. Again, case in point, Herschend.
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I would low key love to learn why so much of the industry has troubles with this stuff. Like, in my industry, there’s little difference in profits from high end offers and cheap offerings.

But like with parks - people eating quality food keeps them in the park longer and potentially spending more money. Like I feel Herschend and Knobels show it can still work.
 
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I think it really still comes down to the "public vs. private company" argument. Citing Herschend and Knoebels as positive examples reinforces that. Any publicly-traded corporation is gonna look for any leftover pennies to trim out of expenses. It sucks, I certainly don't agree with the approach, but it's reality. I mean, is there ONE example of a public company who, in recent times, has NOT either started using lesser-quality ingredients, "shrink-flated" their product, trimmed benefits, or jacked pricing?

The only way to effectively express your discontent is with your wallet. Personally, I haven't been to any major park chain since 2019 and don't intend to for the foreseeable future because I, too, am frustrated with all the ways in which value has been eliminated. I've taken the kids to some local parks like Storybook Land and some Jersey Shore boardwalk piers, which has easily scratched any itch I have regarding amusement parks. I may break down and take them to Hersheypark next year, but that's kind of an exception to a normal "theme park chain" park.

I'm sure I'll eventually go back to a major park again, but I'm definitely gonna hold out as long as I can.
 
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