Kings Dominion Kills WinterFest

[horsesboy]

Not sure how this will destroy the park but k.

I don't know that anyone thinks it will destroy the park. I think many of us myself included are concerned that it might significantly harm the park and lead to additional cuts and down grades in the future. Many of us are also concerned in general about the way SF has operated and treated pass members across the chain sense the merger.

 

[Mushroom]

I actually think one of the few silver linings of this news is that Winterfest's cancellation is, all things considered, fairly inconsequential to the park's long-term future. I completely agree that it is probably a bad sign of things to come. But, compared to a major infrastructural change, the removal of signature attractions (like Thunder Road at Carowinds), or even a major change to the park's landscape (like BGW's land clearing to make room for Finnegan's Flyer), the loss of Winterfest in and of itself doesn't do irreparable harm to the park. For the rest of the year that the park is open, the difference will be essentially nonexistent. It will just suck come December.

Much of Winterfest's infrastructure is now a permanent part of the park. That means that if a different management team takes over someday or if cost cutting stops being corporate's MO, a holiday event can be brought back. They might have to invest in some new decorations (depending on what happens to the park's stash of decor), but most of the upfront work for preparing the park for winter operations is done and can't easily be undone.

That does not mean that Winterfest's cancellation doesn't signify other bad, potentially more permanently damaging changes down the line. And it certainly doesn't excuse the grossly disrespectful manner with which the event was cancelled. But if there's one solace I'm taking from this news, it's that in March through October, the loss of Winterfest in a vaccuum won't change much about how we experience the park.

 

[tursiops]

I can't imagine executives running a successful company of that scale, plus all their highly experienced advisors, would not know what they were getting into with a deal like this. My guess is Six Flags leadership knew they had rotten numbers and wanted a payday from the merger. As for Cedar Fair, they had just survived an unsolicited offer from SEAS (United Parks) and may have been concerned another attempt could make it to shareholder vote. If that happened and the offer was accepted they would not be in the position to retain control, as SEAS executives would undoubtedly take over. Obviously that's all speculation, but greed and power are huge motivators in corporate America.

As for the current dire situation, I'm sure financial pressure is a big part. Their combined leadership may look at United Parks though and see how they are milking their parks for every penny and diminishing the experience left and right with very few ramifications. It could be a situation of money see, money do.

Personally I'm very disappointed. We've never been to WinterFest but have talked about it for years. Now we may never get the chance.

 

[bill s]

A lot of people (my family included) have left BGW for KD in the last few years. This is KD’s moment to reshape the theme park market in VA, and instead, Six Flags Corporate (because of a questionable merger that evidently put them in a precarious financial position) seems to be content to roll over and die. Missed opportunity…

I agree, it is a pivotal moment, but that will have a lot more to do with their core season -- if there's anyone left not too pissed off to enjoy it.

 

[Thriller]

I think I'm just going to take the family to Dollywood for a weekend this year instead.

At least when you travel to Dollywood and it rains, they don’t close the entire park like Kings Dominion does

 

[Zachary]

Not sure how this will destroy the park but k.

This is an obvious strawman, but I'm going to bite anyway just to make a point.

The removal of WinterFest makes a Kings Dominion pass wholly uncompetitive vs a Busch Gardens Williamsburg pass for a not insignificant number of Virginians. Busch Gardens Williamsburg has made Christmas at the parks a serious tradition for many families in this region. WinterFest allowed Kings Dominion to compete for that very lucrative, often-family, Christmas-going market. Giant new coasters, Haunt, booze festivals, etc do nothing for families with young kids. WinterFest was Kings Dominion's annual in with that market. Many of those families are going to move to Busch Gardens Williamsburg now JUST because Santa exists in Williamsburg and not in Doswell.

This isn't just a calendar reduction, this is an AUDIENCE reduction.

 

[Thriller]

Dear eye rolling Nicole. You have said for a while, the Kings Dominion does not have an attendance problem, but these layoffs and cancellation of Winterfest indicate otherwise expert.

 

[numberonetumbilidefender]

There's something kind of comforting in knowing that no matter how rough things get, Blauer will be there complaining like it's 3 times worse.

 

[buckler89]

Gonna start making a drinking game for every time "weather closures" are mentioned in random places.

Not a good look for SF/CF here. I never got to make it to WF, calendar just never worked out. So while I'm bummed I never got to see it, I guess I didn't technically lose anything.

But man, this whole offseason has been a huge own goal leading into what should be a celebratory year for KD, and I can't wrap my head around why they did everything this way. Hell, if you're gonna be all cagey with removals, at least do it after the big 50 year celebration. Piss people off after they've had the fun celebration, not before.

 

[warfelg]

Gonna start making a drinking game for every time "weather closures" are mentioned in random places.

Is there enough alcohol in the world?

Hell, if you're gonna be all cagey with removals, at least do it after the big 50 year celebration. Piss people off after they've had the fun celebration, not before.

Agreed. And my issue I have with so much of what has been happening is it's a chain wide decision, so it's not even the people in the park that's making the decisions to do this. It's the same issue I have with BGW overall, is that too many decisions are being made for the park without much through of what's going on in the park.

Like you think knowing it's the 50th, they would do special 50th last rides on some of these attractions, hold off on the culinary changes. I worry that people are going to go to the park to celebrate 50 years and come away with a negative view of the park and give up on it.

 

[Thriller]

Blah blah blah. Treating customers poorly IS part of their attendance problem. Bait and switch season pass sales. Ghost weather closures. Elimination of live entertainment. Etc.

People defend these practices that got the park in this situation. Enjoy your shrinking schedule and attraction lineup.

Supposedly live entertainment is coming back this summer but attendance at the shows will be low because they have chased those customers off. It takes a lot of time (and more moderate attractions) to get them back. They won’t be willing to invest what is necessary to get those customers back. And live entertainment will be cut again next year because of low attendance.

 

[jwranson]

Is there enough alcohol in the world?


Agreed. And my issue I have with so much of what has been happening is it's a chain wide decision, so it's not even the people in the park that's making the decisions to do this. It's the same issue I have with BGW overall, is that too many decisions are being made for the park without much through of what's going on in the park.

Like you think knowing it's the 50th, they would do special 50th last rides on some of these attractions, hold off on the culinary changes. I worry that people are going to go to the park to celebrate 50 years and come away with a negative view of the park and give up on it.

The entire park leadership should have just said "no" to some of these changes from Corporate. I'd have respected that. I don't respect bowing to wrong decisions made by people thousands of miles away in an office.

 

[Gavin]

 

[horsesboy]

The entire park leadership should have just said "no" to some of these changes from Corporate. I'd have respected that. I don't respect bowing to wrong decisions made by people thousands of miles away in an office.

It doesn't work that way in modern corporations. You say no and suddenly you are unemployed and the change is still happening. On top of that KD basically writes proposed budgets and then corporate has to actually give them the money so if they don't want something they don't give money and there is no way to pay for it. Sure part of me what like to have seen the park president and other people fight kicking and streaming publicly and refuse to comply and make it even uglier for corporate but the bigger adult in me says I wouldn't do that at my job cause I need the income to pay bills and these people are no different.

 

[jwranson]

It doesn't work that way in modern corporations. You say no and suddenly you are unemployed and the change is still happening. On top of that KD basically writes proposed budgets and then corporate has to actually give them the money so if they don't want something they don't give money and there is no way to pay for it. Sure part of me what like to have seen the park president and other people fight kicking and streaming publicly and refuse to comply and make it even uglier for corporate but the bigger adult in me says I wouldn't do that at my job cause I need the income to pay bills and these people are no different.

It was mostly a tongue in cheek post. It's not like they'd give them all a mass layoff... oh wait.

 

[lyingtorobots]

Gonna start making a drinking game for every time "weather closures" are mentioned in random places.

Not a good look for SF/CF here. I never got to make it to WF, calendar just never worked out. So while I'm bummed I never got to see it, I guess I didn't technically lose anything.

But man, this whole offseason has been a huge own goal leading into what should be a celebratory year for KD, and I can't wrap my head around why they did everything this way. Hell, if you're gonna be all cagey with removals, at least do it after the big 50 year celebration. Piss people off after they've had the fun celebration, not before.

Fr; even the Lannisters let you enjoy the wedding first…

 

[buckler89]

Blah blah blah. Treating customers poorly IS part of their attendance problem. Bait and switch season pass sales. Ghost weather closures. Elimination of live entertainment. Etc

DRINK

 

[mwhinva]

Given that 2025 is KD's 50th anniversary year and it's the first time a former Cedar Fair Park is having an anniversary season since the Six Flags merger, do you think the SF corporate budget cuts meant that KD had to choose between the summertime anniversary events/entertainment for an 8 to 10 week period or have Winterfest (3 to 3.5 weeks of operational days) this year? I'm guessing they choose the former.

 

[horsesboy]

Given that 2025 is KD's 50th anniversary year and it's the first time a former Cedar Fair Park is having an anniversary season since the Six Flags merger, do you think the SF corporate budget cuts meant that KD had to choose between the summertime anniversary events/entertainment for an 8 to 10 week period or have Winterfest (3 to 3.5 weeks of operational days) this year? I'm guessing they choose the former.

Everything i have heard points to there be no choice but a simple dictate from corporate that it went away.

 

[netdvn]

It would be nice to see the money saved from axing Winterfest get funneled into Haunt.

Haunt is starting to get old. The sets are nice but I would love to see a scare zone overhaul. We've seen the same scare zones for years now. I think its time for a serious shake up. Same with the mazes. Cornstalkers is really old at this point and needed to be replaced years ago. I like Bayou and Trick or Treat a lot but I wouldn't mind seeing those mazes get changed out for a new theme.

Losing Winterfest is a nasty blow, but I'm hoping this is more of a Valleyfair situation where the park is holding off for a few years to see if people still have interest in the event and will bring it back at a later date. I would love to see more of the park incorporated into the event if it does come back in the future.