Kings Dominion Goes Year-Round in 2023

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Speaking of passes, my guess is the majority if attendees in winter will be passholders. Few people are going to buy a ticket for less than half a park.

I just don’t see how this is going to be profitable if it’s just regurgitating the same season pass holders, with no upcharge for the winter season etc. the dining pass holders are just getting more comp meals.

Short hours lead to lower food sales as well. It’s more economical to eat before and after the park and east to do that with these hours.

As much as I would like to see this work, I just don’t see how it’s going to.
 
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Blauer said:
Speaking of passes, my guess is the majority if attendees in winter will be passholders. Few people are going to buy a ticket for less than half a park.

I just don’t see how this is going to be profitable if it’s just regurgitating the same season pass holders, with no upcharge for the winter season etc. the dining pass holders are just getting more comp meals.

Short hours lead to lower food sales as well. It’s more economical to eat before and after the park and east to do that with these hours.

As much as I would like to see this work, I just don’t see how it’s going to.
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I agree with these points but I will throw one counter point out there. How much does the marketing value of year round ops add to the marketability of passes and add one?
 
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Mushroom said:
KD didn’t announce year-round operations until late October, so anyone who bought a 2022 pass last spring knew then that they were only getting the 2022 season. Anyone in that situation who shows up expecting their 2022 pass to work in 2023 would be in the wrong.
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One of my favorite sayings is “a person is smart, people are dumb”. I wouldn’t be shocked if people show up expecting it to work.
 
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Blauer said:
Speaking of passes, my guess is the majority if attendees in winter will be passholders. Few people are going to buy a ticket for less than half a park.

I just don’t see how this is going to be profitable if it’s just regurgitating the same season pass holders, with no upcharge for the winter season etc. the dining pass holders are just getting more comp meals.

Short hours lead to lower food sales as well. It’s more economical to eat before and after the park and east to do that with these hours.

As much as I would like to see this work, I just don’t see how it’s going to.
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Daily ticket prices are much lower than spring/summer, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see a decent number of guests looking for a lower priced day. It’s not going to be crazy busy, but don’t discount those who don’t want to pay peak period prices.
 
This is what is open.

They have about 4x more food options than BG has on the busiest days of Christmas Town.

Hours have been cut to 11-5. The short hours and 3 coaster lineup will probably only attract local customers IMO. No live entertainment.

RIDES
Americana
Apple Zapple
Bad Apple
Berserker
Boo Blasters
Carousel
Charlie Brown’s Wind-Up
Dodgem
Dominator
Flying Ace
Flying Ace Balloon Race
Great Pumpkin Coaster
Kite Eating Tree
Linus Launcher
Lucy’s Crabbie Cabbies
Lucy’s Tugboat
Peanuts 500
Peanuts Turnpike
Snoopy’s Junction
Snoopy’s Space Buggies
Twisted Timbers
Wave Swinger
Woodstock Whirlybirds

FOOD
Apple Ida’s Funnel Cake
Auntie Anne’s
Boardwalk Fries (Grove and Arbor locations)
Border Burrito
Cinnabon
Country Kitchen
Foutain & Floats
Grain & Grill
Grove Bar
Juke Box Diner
Rita’s (Grove and International Street locations)
Starbucks
Sweet Frog
Sweet Tooth Refresh
Victoria’s Pizza (featuring live entertainment)
World's Greatest Funnel Cakes

SHOPS
Apple Zapple FunPix
Build-A-Bear
Dominator FunPix
Dominion Traders
Front Gate / Twisted Lockers
Great Pumpkin FunPix
KD Outfitters
La Dulce Vida
Plaza Gifts
Twisted Timbers FunPix
Upgrade Station
 
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What would be really nice to have heard is that they had set up heated tents for things like Grain & Grill. Eating outside in cold temps doesn't sound fun. I'm surprised so much is going to be open. It sounds like they will have significant staff for this. Will they break even?
 
Probably depends on the winter weather situation as we go through the winters here. Some years we can get like 0 snow for some reason it seems like the fall line impacts snow moisture when it comes through pervasively (to snow anyway). I mean I'm happy to have TT available year round. Just makes you wonder if TT or Dom will need maintenance periods at any point? I mean they could go one train ops like Carowinds is with Fury on them and then do maintenance on the other train. We won't really know how year-round ops shakes out for awhile but I am happy to have the RMC and B&M up the street available every Saturday and Sunday always. 😁
 
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I'm nowhere near down t
CoasterAuditor said:
Probably depends on the winter weather situation as we go through the winters here. Some years we can get like 0 snow for some reason it seems like the fall line impacts snow moisture when it comes through pervasively (to snow anyway). I mean I'm happy to have TT available year round. Just makes you wonder if TT or Dom will need maintenance periods at any point? I mean they could go one train ops like Carowinds is with Fury on them and then do maintenance on the other train. We won't really know how year-round ops shakes out for awhile but I am happy to have the RMC and B&M up the street available every Saturday and Sunday always. 😁
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I'm nowhere near down the street. It's a 2+ hour drive each way. But I didn't make it to winter fest, so we'll probably do it once. That Apple Zapple will be operating too is nice. I like it and more coasters is good. And I'd like to go to Grain & Grill. But only if it stays unseasonable warm when we are there.
 
I just went today (Saturday) for KD's first day of the January/February operations, and overall was fairly impressed.

First off, with no rides or restaurants open in Old Virginia, the area is completely blocked off on both sides.

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With less than a week after the last operating day of WinterFest, they're still of course working on removing all the decorations; such as the lights here on the Eiffel Tower.

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At Victoria's they've opened a full bar in one of the front alcoves.

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And on the opposite alcove is where they have the live entertainment that the park advertised earlier in the week.

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So altogether Victoria's makes for a fairly nice atmosphere, as the band pretty much fills the entire space with music.

Staff-wise, I was also impressed at most locations. Eating at Jukebox, I counted a total of 8 staff; 1 server, 1 cashier, and a whopping 6 in the kitchen (not that all of them seemed to be doing something though).

Twisted Timbers was a one-train op; but was still a walk-on. Apple Zapple was running all of its cars. And Dominator was a two-train op, with the third train looking as if it must be at maintenance.

So again, I was pretty impressed with my visit today - most especially by the staffing levels, as I certainly did not expect it. And will be interesting to see if they can continue/justify the same level of staffing for the weeks to come -- primarily given the very light crowds at the park today, which I assume must be due to the average park-goer being WinterFest'd-out at this early point in the month.
 
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It wouldnt surpise me if Old Virginia is closed off to allow for work on Grizzly. It would be nice if Jungle X opened up to offset it, but the crowds weren't enough to really justify opening up another section of the park.
 
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Not sure if it’s possible to tell, but for anyone who went this weekend, could you tell if it seemed like all of the staff were full-timers? Probably tough to know anyone you recognized someone or they straight up told you - or if full-timers tend to be older employees (those that seem like they’d be working at the park as a career) compared to younger kids earning some money for the summer and on weekends.

My thought is that if all the employees are full-timers, it would explain the business logic behind the year-round operation. Like I’ve said before, since KD has so aggressively added so many full-time front-line positions in the past year, operating year-round might just be a way to reduce the park’s off-season financial loss. Since they have to pay those employees year-round anyway, might as well put them to work.

Assuming the park’s labor costs account for the bulk of its operating costs, and assuming the staff at the park this past weekend would have been paid with or without the park being open, then pretty much every dollar in revenue the park makes during these extra weekends is just bonus for them. Even just a few thousand dollars earned a day is a few thousand dollars less in lost income. Of course, this is just my guess on how the year-round operation might be a “success” even if it loses the park money. It just has to lose the park less money than if they stayed closed.
 
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Nicole said:
I wanted to agree with @outhikn and add an important detail. We are currently eating in a clean (there is someone tidying up the already nearly spotless area) and heated tent. So, concerns about indoor seating seem unnecessary. We also noticed that Borders , Country Kitchen, and Victoria's are open with indoor seating.
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Would that tent happen to be at Grain & Grill? I'm hoping.
 
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Mushroom said:
Not sure if it’s possible to tell, but for anyone who went this weekend, could you tell if it seemed like all of the staff were full-timers? Probably tough to know anyone you recognized someone or they straight up told you - or if full-timers tend to be older employees (those that seem like they’d be working at the park as a career) compared to younger kids earning some money for the summer and on weekends.

My thought is that if all the employees are full-timers, it would explain the business logic behind the year-round operation. Like I’ve said before, since KD has so aggressively added so many full-time front-line positions in the past year, operating year-round might just be a way to reduce the park’s off-season financial loss. Since they have to pay those employees year-round anyway, might as well put them to work.

Assuming the park’s labor costs account for the bulk of its operating costs, and assuming the staff at the park this past weekend would have been paid with or without the park being open, then pretty much every dollar in revenue the park makes during these extra weekends is just bonus for them. Even just a few thousand dollars earned a day is a few thousand dollars less in lost income. Of course, this is just my guess on how the year-round operation might be a “success” even if it loses the park money. It just has to lose the park less money than if they stayed closed.
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I actually saw some entertainers there this weekend. As noted above, they had band members in Victoria’s Pizza playing, and they had Jack Frost, Tinsel, and Snowflake walking around greeting guests.
 
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Mushroom said:
Not sure if it’s possible to tell, but for anyone who went this weekend, could you tell if it seemed like all of the staff were full-timers? Probably tough to know anyone you recognized someone or they straight up told you - or if full-timers tend to be older employees (those that seem like they’d be working at the park as a career) compared to younger kids earning some money for the summer and on weekends.
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@Mushroom - Great question, which I too was trying to figure out, when I was at the park on Saturady. But I honestly don't know.

I did notice a few familiar faces, who I'm used to seeing around the park on a regular basis (namely older employees). And I also noticed quite a number of new faces - where I know that there were new, because they were actively being assisted by a supervisor in managing their station; either scanning my pass at the front gate, or even scanning my pass to redeem a FunPix photo.

However of course those new faces/staff may actually be full-timers who routinely work in other areas of the park, and are now being asked to take on temporary roles just for these extended winter weekends.

Again though (as mentioned in my earlier post), I was quite impressed by the sheer number of staff throughout the park on Saturday; as was preparing myself on entry to see an absolute bare minimum to operate each restaurant/ride/shop, and later in the day walked out the park rather amazed.
 
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