Register or Login to Hide This Ad for Free!
The biggest issue with Pompeii to you guys is the sundial? To that I say: ha.

If you asked me what they should improve about Pompeii that little plot of land would be DEAD last on my list.

Move on guys. The land is pretty, multi-use, and is totally fine. It's clear Busch is spending lots of money on new theming and revitalizing other areas. Nothing to fear here, move along.
 
Practice what you preach DrMoneyHATESBuschGardens?

"This "you guys are averse to change" thing is getting old. I, speaking personally, have absolutely nothing against change. I don't know how much more clearly this can be said."
 
I'm just going to quote Shafor's post here to keep that thread on topic:
Shafor said:
I guess my only question would be: was removing a wedge tent a few tools to make way for a giant snowman really that cumbersome?
 
AoenOne said:
Practice what you preach DrMoneyHATESBuschGardens?

"This "you guys are averse to change" thing is getting old. I, speaking personally, have absolutely nothing against change. I don't know how much more clearly this can be said."

What? I have nothing against change. Change it. Change it again. Change it three times a week. I could not care less. Just don't change it to something worse than what you started with.

I'd rather see something fall into disrepair than to know that someone in the office actually made a conscious decision to spend time, effort and money on changing it for the worse...ACTIVELY making the park a less good place.

Change everything every day. Change the flowers. Change names. Tear down all the rides and build new ones. I'd like it, because it would be something new so long as the changes improved upon the original.

A sundial is not an improvement over a well-themed queue. It's just a bad clock. No one, not ONE single person waiting in line, is going to go "it's a good thing that sundial is there...NOW I GET THIS WHOLE CONCEPT!" The same could not be said of the archaeology equipment. At least one person, in 15 years, must have looked at that and said "I guess all this archaeology stuff means this is some kind of dig site or excavation or something." Nobody, in a million centuries, is going to look at that stupid sundial and think "this really brings this experience together."

That Santa Claus better be the best Chris Kringle in the history of Christian civilization for them to do something so utterly backwards. He had better be the real, genuine frigging Father Christmas for all that.
 
DrMoneyHATESBuschGardens said:
AoenOne said:
Practice what you preach DrMoneyHATESBuschGardens?

"This "you guys are averse to change" thing is getting old. I, speaking personally, have absolutely nothing against change. I don't know how much more clearly this can be said."

What? I have nothing against change. Change it. Change it again. Change it three times a week. I could care less. Just don't change it to something worse than what you started with.

I'd rather see something fall into disrepair than to know that someone in the office actually made a conscious decision to spend time, effort and money on changing it for the worse...ACTIVELY making the park a less good place.

Change everything every day. Change the flowers. Change names. Tear down all the rides and build new ones. I'd like it, because it would be something new so long as the changes improved upon the original[/b].

A sundial is not an improvement over a well-themed queue. It's just a bad clock. No one, not ONE single person waiting in line, is going to go "it's a good thing that sundial is there...NOW I GET THIS WHOLE CONCEPT!" The same could not be said of the archaeology equipment. At least one person, in 15 years, must have looked at that and said "I guess all this archaeology stuff means this is ome kind of dig site or excavation or something." Nobody, in a million centuries, is going to look at that stupid sundial and think "this really bring this experience together."

That Santa Claus better be the best Chris Kringle in the history of Christian civilization for them to do something so utterly backwards. He had better be the real, genuine frigging Father Christmas for all that.

So let me get this straight.... you'll defend Entwined, but removing some old thematic elements from Pompeii (which really is the least of its issues) just crosses the line?

In that case, when FOF opened, the theme of Pompeii was effectively killed. So this is a non-issue really.

NINJA EDIT: BTW, no one looked at those old thematic elements and said "those really bring the experience together"
 
DrMoneyHATESBuschGardens said:
AoenOne said:
So let me get this straight.... you'll defend Entwined

Who? That thing doesn't belong in the Festhaus. It needs its own space.


NINJA EDIT: BTW, no one looked at those old thematic elements and said "those really bring the experience together"

Me.

..... I'm going to keep the first part out of this thread, just wanted to make a simple point.

Now, You're an enthusiast. Know what % of the attendance is populated by enthusiast? Very little. The GP is the main focus of the park. Majority rules. Sure, they try to keep us happy at times (see BBW references in Vbolt). Know how many people were/have/will continue standing there taking pictures of that sundial? Enough to clog that path. The old thematic elements did not do that (in recent years atleast). It technically keeps with theme due to being a time relevant clock, and volcanic ash is among the most fertile of soils on earth. It's a relevant change made to keep things alive in a previously dull area in the park.
 
AoenOne said:
...It technically keeps with theme due to being a time relevant clock, and volcanic ash is among the most fertile of soils on earth...

Escape from Pompeii takes place during modern times, as it's an archaeological dig at the ruins of Pompeii, with you (the rider) being a member of said dig. Now tell me, why would there be a perfectly good sundial at the ruins of a city that was completely destroyed by a volcanic eruption? If the sundial was decrepit, it would totally go with the theme of the ride, but it's not. So why are you defending something that doesn't go with the ride, no matter how you spin it?
 
Ming Ming Duckling said:
AoenOne said:
...It technically keeps with theme due to being a time relevant clock, and volcanic ash is among the most fertile of soils on earth...

Escape from Pompeii takes place during modern times, as it's an archaeological dig at the ruins of Pompeii, with you (the rider) being a member of said dig. Now tell me, why would there be a perfectly good sundial at the ruins of a city that was completely destroyed by a volcanic eruption? If the sundial was decrepit, it would totally go with the theme of the ride, but it's not. So why are you defending something that doesn't go with the ride, no matter how you spin it?

So they never restore old items they dig up? Right. Never said it told a story. Just fits the theme. Still brings me back to my original point, why were those NEEDED to tell the story? They weren't. ESCAPE FROM POMPEII. "I bet i'm going to be escaping from Pompeii" really can't get be any clearer.
 
The guy who invented this whole business thought these little things mattered, and to this day, the theme parks that sprang forth from his mind still rule the theme park world. A little story:

Legendary Imagineer John Hench once complained to Walt about attention to "unnecessary" details. There used to be stage coaches in Frontierland that had leather suspension straps. Hench felt there was no need for this, as they were harder to maintain than more modern technologies and that nobody was going to notice anyway. He proceeded to get a lecture from Walt about how people actually do care very much for these kinds of details, even if they don't consciously know it.

The cumulative effect of ignoring these little things...of making these little changes...is that the park becomes a place for people to use for entertainment, rather than a place people long to visit and escape to. When you take the time to build the carriages with leather suspension systems, like they did in the old west, people get the impression that the place is built with some heart, and with some care, and that it's not some dirty sandbox to go trash and throw away like a disposable amusement.

Disney understood that every little thing matters, from the napkin rings to the ticket stubs, and when you have a major park attraction, you ought to treat it like it matters, or otherwise the audience won't.

Every little detail is an important one. Terribly important. If you want the audience to care about what you're trying to do, you sure as hell better give the impression that YOU care about what you're doing, and never give them the slightest hint that you have looked something over or are trying to save a buck. They need to feel that this place was built for them to visit and escape to, not for them to slouch around in and kill a few hours. You ought to forget there's a world outside of Busch Gardens when you're at Busch Gardens, and the park achieves that effect by caring about these kinds of details.
 
Ok, this is really easy.

Option 1: An area themed to an archaeological digsite.
Option 2: A very nice looking modern sundial surrounded by a beautiful garden.

Now, would someone please come forward who is willing to defend the fact that option 2 adds more to Escape from Pompeii's theming and story than option 1.
 
DrMoneyHATESBuschGardens said:
The guy who invented this whole business thought these little things mattered, and to this day, the theme parks that sprang forth from his mind still rule the theme park world. A little story:

Legendary Imagineer John Hench once complained to Walt about attention to "unnecessary" details. There used to be stage coaches in Frontierland that had leather suspension straps. Hench felt there was no need for this, as they were harder to maintain than more modern technologies and that nobody was going to notice anyway. He proceeded to get a lecture from Walt about how people actually do care very much for these kinds of details, even if they don't consciously know it.

The cumulative effect of ignoring these little things...of making these little changes...is that the park becomes a place for people to use for entertainment, rather than a place people long to visit and escape to. When you take the time to build the carriages with leather suspension systems, like they did in the old west, people get the impression that the place is built with some heart, and with some care, and that it's not some dirty sandbox to go trash and throw away like a disposable amusement.

Disney understood that every little thing matters, from the napkin rings to the ticket stubs, and when you have a major park attraction, you ought to treat it like it matters, or otherwise the audience won't.

Every little detail is an important one. Terribly important. If you want the audience to care about what you're trying to do, you sure as hell better give the impression that YOU care about what you're doing, and never give them the slightest hint that you have looked something over or are trying to save a buck. They need to feel that this place was built for them to visit and escape to, not for them to slouch around in and kill a few hours. You ought to forget there's a world outside of Busch Gardens when you're at Busch Gardens, and the park achieves that effect by caring about these kinds of details.

Last I checked, and I just check, BGW isn't a Disney park. Also, on the side of Disney Parks, they can be very hit or miss. Sure they have great work that's known around the world, yet so does BGW. You cant get EVERY SINGLE THING PERFECT. You also can't make EVERYONE happy. Surely you are understanding of this. The park does it's best to keep EVERYONE as happy as possible.

Swiftman:
Enthusiast pick old setup. (Due to it being there originally)
GP picks flowers and sundial. (Due to it being an attraction in itself)

Im going to leave with the simple note as to why I jumped in here....
Just because one says the sundials are fine, does not mean they want the entire park paved over. That's a very broad statement to make, over a very very minor detail to ride that's usually broke down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sly4Good
AoenOne said:
Last I checked, and I just check, BGW isn't a Disney park.
Missing the point. The psychology of the human beings in the audience doesn't change because The Walt Disney Company doesn't sign the checks.


Swiftman:
Enthusiast pick old setup.
GP picks flowers and sundial.

Do what? Where are you getting this? Because people are taking pictures of it? It's new. A minute ago, the GP didn't even notice the sundial existed, and now you have decreed that the votes are in and they have declared their hatred of the old setup and that they are in love with the sundial.

There's absolutely no way that that is true, because if the audience really felt that way, they'd all be at King's Dominion.
 
No one is trying to make the sundial fit the theme. They just don't care if a few old pots were replaced by a sundial.

The two sides of this story is simply the changes elements is either not relative to Pompeiis theme or is extremely killing the rides theme.

Both are not wrong nor right. Each is entitled to express their own opinions without saying they are fully correct.
 
This is starting to get tiresome.........
Busch can't get everything right. Sure this might have been a miss to all of you, but you need to think about things in the long run. Just because a few tents and tools were replaced by a sundial and flowers, it's not the end of the world. Would you much rather see there be nothing at all, and the park use that area during HoS, or would you much rather see a sundial, so that there's at least SOMETHING to do with the theme, instead of a pure, blank space.

Anyways, that's just my 2 cent on this whole ordeal.
 
I don't believe anyone is saying "THIS IS THE END OF THE RIDE, THE HAMLET, AND THE PARK!". People (like myself) are simply saying that we don't like the direction that things like this indicate that the park is traveling in. And honestly, if you're getting emotionally upset over an argument about a sundial at a theme park on an internet forum, it may be time to step away from the keyboard and go to sleep. ;)
 
Consider Donating to Hide This Ad