Entwined: Tales of Good & Grimm
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RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
Watched a good chunk of the the show Saturday. It was alright. Loved the acrobatics, special effects, and music. Didn't love the animal costumes/gingerbread men.
The show seemed like a less-scary Castle O Sullivan with a few stunts thrown in here and there if anything.
They should get rid of the fur suits and maybe darken it a bit and it'll be nice to watch.
Watched a good chunk of the the show Saturday. It was alright. Loved the acrobatics, special effects, and music. Didn't love the animal costumes/gingerbread men.
The show seemed like a less-scary Castle O Sullivan with a few stunts thrown in here and there if anything.
They should get rid of the fur suits and maybe darken it a bit and it'll be nice to watch.
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
Now that I have had a chnace to see Entwined, I can now pass judgement. I first want to say the the performers do quite a good job, considering the material they have been given. They are all very talented. I personally was very disappointed with this show. Here is my breakdown.
The plot: I do not understand the concept of why there are so many characters in the opening number but yet the show focusses only on Red Riding Hood and Hansel/Gretal. The plot just doesn't make sense as to where they are going and what they are trying to do. Is there a plot line or is this show a collection of skits??
The songs: I think it's admirable that BG wanted to create original songs, however, they were all completely forgetable. The only outstanding musical number was the song taken from Willy Wonka. The show is laking musicality.
The costumes. They costumes are lavish, but Gretal's looks too futuristic. Red's looks as though it was inspired by an armadillo. As stated before, why do the three bears and big bad wollf lokk like school mascots?
The Set/Stage: the stage looks so cheap and temporary. They just took some plywood and covered it with cheap paint. The mushroom stalks block the audience view.
This is definetly a children's show aimed at the under 6 set. I feel bad for the performers because of the lackluster applause. I could tell the audience really did not like this show. I overhead many state they did not like it as well as many stating they did not uderstand the concept. I will probaly see another performance so that I can try to figure this show out, but it just does not have what it takes to bring me back.
Now that I have had a chnace to see Entwined, I can now pass judgement. I first want to say the the performers do quite a good job, considering the material they have been given. They are all very talented. I personally was very disappointed with this show. Here is my breakdown.
The plot: I do not understand the concept of why there are so many characters in the opening number but yet the show focusses only on Red Riding Hood and Hansel/Gretal. The plot just doesn't make sense as to where they are going and what they are trying to do. Is there a plot line or is this show a collection of skits??
The songs: I think it's admirable that BG wanted to create original songs, however, they were all completely forgetable. The only outstanding musical number was the song taken from Willy Wonka. The show is laking musicality.
The costumes. They costumes are lavish, but Gretal's looks too futuristic. Red's looks as though it was inspired by an armadillo. As stated before, why do the three bears and big bad wollf lokk like school mascots?
The Set/Stage: the stage looks so cheap and temporary. They just took some plywood and covered it with cheap paint. The mushroom stalks block the audience view.
This is definetly a children's show aimed at the under 6 set. I feel bad for the performers because of the lackluster applause. I could tell the audience really did not like this show. I overhead many state they did not like it as well as many stating they did not uderstand the concept. I will probaly see another performance so that I can try to figure this show out, but it just does not have what it takes to bring me back.
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
This.
I don't know if any of the performers will ever read this, but if one does, please pass it along to the others. The acting, singing, and acrobatics are all superb and the talent in the show is the only thing keeping it from a EitA-like status in my book. The show is pretty bad. The stage is awful. The location is horrid. The talent in the show is the only thing it has going for it. The response to the show is pretty negative but I'm convinced that the response has nothing to do with the performers and everything to do with the show itself.
Celticdog said:
This.
I don't know if any of the performers will ever read this, but if one does, please pass it along to the others. The acting, singing, and acrobatics are all superb and the talent in the show is the only thing keeping it from a EitA-like status in my book. The show is pretty bad. The stage is awful. The location is horrid. The talent in the show is the only thing it has going for it. The response to the show is pretty negative but I'm convinced that the response has nothing to do with the performers and everything to do with the show itself.
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
So, I've obviously not seen the show yet, but from the pictures an video I've seen, it looks like the general consensus is holding: it's a good show (if not completely ready) for kids and families that is in the COMPLETELY wrong venue.
When I first heard of this thing, I was a little disappointed at the park taking yet another step away from European and into Euro-inspired, but I'll also be honest and say that, as a fan of the "family" shows (like Castle O'Sullivan), I was excited to see what they'd do. Unfortunately, it looks like they missed the mark with it.
Did I read correctly that they're going to be putting beer maids into the Festhaus? Even after installing this? Consistency, guys. Consistency.
So, I've obviously not seen the show yet, but from the pictures an video I've seen, it looks like the general consensus is holding: it's a good show (if not completely ready) for kids and families that is in the COMPLETELY wrong venue.
When I first heard of this thing, I was a little disappointed at the park taking yet another step away from European and into Euro-inspired, but I'll also be honest and say that, as a fan of the "family" shows (like Castle O'Sullivan), I was excited to see what they'd do. Unfortunately, it looks like they missed the mark with it.
Did I read correctly that they're going to be putting beer maids into the Festhaus? Even after installing this? Consistency, guys. Consistency.
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
I HATE THIS SHOW!!!
The storyline is either not there or very hard to follow. The people singing could sing good, but I did not like the music. The acting was not very good. The stage and the other decorations destroyed the look and feel of the Feshaus. They are gearing it towards girls that think they are a Disney Princess. It should not be in the Festhaus. The show is not even German. Thats my opinion and I want This is Oktoberfest back.
I HATE THIS SHOW!!!
The storyline is either not there or very hard to follow. The people singing could sing good, but I did not like the music. The acting was not very good. The stage and the other decorations destroyed the look and feel of the Feshaus. They are gearing it towards girls that think they are a Disney Princess. It should not be in the Festhaus. The show is not even German. Thats my opinion and I want This is Oktoberfest back.
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
It is a very loose plot ( which I imagine is very good for children who have short attention spans) and completely fictionalize ( not based on any of the Grimm's Tales).
Alpenscoot said:I HATE THIS SHOW!!!
It is a very loose plot ( which I imagine is very good for children who have short attention spans) and completely fictionalize ( not based on any of the Grimm's Tales).
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
Bingo. My little princess can't get enough of it.
Alpenscoot said:
Bingo. My little princess can't get enough of it.
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
You guys are as bad as the nurse haters. Can we get we agree on what the festhaus is finally?? Is it for kids or adults?? So you dont like a few things about it, there is no need to tear it apart. It is obviously for kids not you, so stop judging it as an adult show. It is a great show for kids. It catches their attention and keeps them happy and that is all that matters. You may not like it but it will bring tons of families.
For those saying it lacks German theme, it has more German theme than new France has european theme. Almost all the fairy tales were from the brothers Grimm and based from the black forest.
I agree the show could be better but it isn't as horrid as you as seem to make it out to be.
You guys are as bad as the nurse haters. Can we get we agree on what the festhaus is finally?? Is it for kids or adults?? So you dont like a few things about it, there is no need to tear it apart. It is obviously for kids not you, so stop judging it as an adult show. It is a great show for kids. It catches their attention and keeps them happy and that is all that matters. You may not like it but it will bring tons of families.
For those saying it lacks German theme, it has more German theme than new France has european theme. Almost all the fairy tales were from the brothers Grimm and based from the black forest.
I agree the show could be better but it isn't as horrid as you as seem to make it out to be.
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
Awesome! Now they can move it right to the front of the park in the Sesame St. area, and everyone's happy. Short walk for kids, and families regain the Festhaus.
Party Rocker said:
Awesome! Now they can move it right to the front of the park in the Sesame St. area, and everyone's happy. Short walk for kids, and families regain the Festhaus.
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
I'm not sure it really will bring tons of families because it seems more like a very young kids/kiddie show rather than an appeal-to-all family show. Kinda like the difference between viewing a My Little Pony or Barney program versus The Lion King or a Pixar film or similar. Families with the youngest children I'm sure will come, but I'm not so sure about families with older children, teens, and adults without their kids with them or without kids at all.
Although I always liked This Is Oktoberfest, I really don't mind the idea of a new show, but I wish it were indeed a family show and not a young children's show. I hope I don't feel I have to avoid my (and many people's) favorite air conditioned haven in the summer when the show is running.
So although I really do sympathize with those who specifically miss This Is Oktoberfest, my main source of disappointment is the very young target audience of the show rather than the change in show per se. Not that I wouldn't have been perfectly happy if they had left the Festhaus alone -- I certainly would have!
I'm not sure it really will bring tons of families because it seems more like a very young kids/kiddie show rather than an appeal-to-all family show. Kinda like the difference between viewing a My Little Pony or Barney program versus The Lion King or a Pixar film or similar. Families with the youngest children I'm sure will come, but I'm not so sure about families with older children, teens, and adults without their kids with them or without kids at all.
Although I always liked This Is Oktoberfest, I really don't mind the idea of a new show, but I wish it were indeed a family show and not a young children's show. I hope I don't feel I have to avoid my (and many people's) favorite air conditioned haven in the summer when the show is running.
So although I really do sympathize with those who specifically miss This Is Oktoberfest, my main source of disappointment is the very young target audience of the show rather than the change in show per se. Not that I wouldn't have been perfectly happy if they had left the Festhaus alone -- I certainly would have!
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
No.
It's a family venue, a family eatery. It's not "dine with elmo" where you expect child's entertainment, where you specifically expect your meal and the theme to revolve around child's entertainment.
That's where all your gripe comes from. If you are gonna put a show there, it should be accessible to everyone! Please don't take it as the fans complaining, Its a very valid point. For the park's entire history up until last year it has remained very family oriented, and the show, while many of your average teen may have found it "boring" had appeal during it's different segments to young and old, and fit in with the theme of the park and more specifically, the eatery.
Also, while I'm not too salty about them ripping the stage out, updating the sound and lighting and putting in a new stage for the show (nor should I think anyone else should be), I can clearly see why people are so upset. If you are gonna do something that drastic, literally replacing one of the oldest pieces of history in the park, you should replace it with a show with the same appeal. From what I've seen and what I understand the show is of amazing quality. The value of the production is great... The execution of a/the story and the general writing... Is not... But fortunately for Busch, Shows can be re-evaluated, re-written, re-rehearsed and costumes can be changed (I'm looking at you furry costumes, and the dumbing down of some of the more over the top ones wouldn't hurt) and You know what, with time the production can turn into something for the whole family, Still tap into this "fairytale" market that the park seems to be trying get into, and still hurl the park into their new direction.
People get their point across by giving critical criticism... Some would say by my post about HOS that I hate it. Entirely not true. I try to go in depth about what exactly about a certain thing I dislike, and have an uncanny knack for making it look like I hate the whole thing... However, I don't see that here. People are being very, very reasonable with their complaints and they are well thought out. Festhaus (during the regular operating season) should host family shows. That place has a significant amount of impact on the park experience, and to change the show from "Family" to "Kiddy" has an impact on the entire park experience. It's not a change that should be taken lightly by Busch, as it is not being taken as such from casual park goers, the locals, Busch park fans and enthusiast.
Party Rocker said:
No.
It's a family venue, a family eatery. It's not "dine with elmo" where you expect child's entertainment, where you specifically expect your meal and the theme to revolve around child's entertainment.
That's where all your gripe comes from. If you are gonna put a show there, it should be accessible to everyone! Please don't take it as the fans complaining, Its a very valid point. For the park's entire history up until last year it has remained very family oriented, and the show, while many of your average teen may have found it "boring" had appeal during it's different segments to young and old, and fit in with the theme of the park and more specifically, the eatery.
Also, while I'm not too salty about them ripping the stage out, updating the sound and lighting and putting in a new stage for the show (nor should I think anyone else should be), I can clearly see why people are so upset. If you are gonna do something that drastic, literally replacing one of the oldest pieces of history in the park, you should replace it with a show with the same appeal. From what I've seen and what I understand the show is of amazing quality. The value of the production is great... The execution of a/the story and the general writing... Is not... But fortunately for Busch, Shows can be re-evaluated, re-written, re-rehearsed and costumes can be changed (I'm looking at you furry costumes, and the dumbing down of some of the more over the top ones wouldn't hurt) and You know what, with time the production can turn into something for the whole family, Still tap into this "fairytale" market that the park seems to be trying get into, and still hurl the park into their new direction.
People get their point across by giving critical criticism... Some would say by my post about HOS that I hate it. Entirely not true. I try to go in depth about what exactly about a certain thing I dislike, and have an uncanny knack for making it look like I hate the whole thing... However, I don't see that here. People are being very, very reasonable with their complaints and they are well thought out. Festhaus (during the regular operating season) should host family shows. That place has a significant amount of impact on the park experience, and to change the show from "Family" to "Kiddy" has an impact on the entire park experience. It's not a change that should be taken lightly by Busch, as it is not being taken as such from casual park goers, the locals, Busch park fans and enthusiast.
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
The Festhaus is a major eating facility, so the show inside should be for everyone. Not just kids, not just adults.
That's not to say Entwined isn't a show for families because it is (and I'm pretty sure it will bring in tons of families during the season). It's just geared towards families with young children, which isn't a bad thing. However, a place like the Festhaus needs a show that children, teens, and adults can enjoy.
Does Entwined fit the bill for that?
No but with a bit of tweaking, it has a lot of potential to do so. Start by getting rid of the fur suits... those look really silly. Make the story a bit more cohesive, and add some dark elements/parental bonuses to give it a more universal appeal. Even Sesame Street has its guest stars and little parental bonuses to keep adults attracted to the show... Entwined should do the same.
Could the show fit in the Globe?
Probably not without an overhaul of the overarching theme (German fairy tales). Change it to general European fairy tales or concentrate on English fairy tales and it could work.
Oh and for the record fairy tales are not a bad thing
The park can do plenty of things to make a show about fairy tales appeal to everyone. We've all grown up and had experiences with them, whether it's the Disney-fied version or the original darker stories. Busch can make them work in the Festhaus, it just doesn't work as well as it should.
The Festhaus is a major eating facility, so the show inside should be for everyone. Not just kids, not just adults.
That's not to say Entwined isn't a show for families because it is (and I'm pretty sure it will bring in tons of families during the season). It's just geared towards families with young children, which isn't a bad thing. However, a place like the Festhaus needs a show that children, teens, and adults can enjoy.
Does Entwined fit the bill for that?
No but with a bit of tweaking, it has a lot of potential to do so. Start by getting rid of the fur suits... those look really silly. Make the story a bit more cohesive, and add some dark elements/parental bonuses to give it a more universal appeal. Even Sesame Street has its guest stars and little parental bonuses to keep adults attracted to the show... Entwined should do the same.
Could the show fit in the Globe?
Probably not without an overhaul of the overarching theme (German fairy tales). Change it to general European fairy tales or concentrate on English fairy tales and it could work.
Oh and for the record fairy tales are not a bad thing
The park can do plenty of things to make a show about fairy tales appeal to everyone. We've all grown up and had experiences with them, whether it's the Disney-fied version or the original darker stories. Busch can make them work in the Festhaus, it just doesn't work as well as it should.
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
I will also say that Fairy Tales fit with the park's overall theme.
I will also say that Fairy Tales fit with the park's overall theme.
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
(Please have smelling salts at the ready )
I'm going to risk committing a bit of heresy here, but... I really don't see what the big deal about This is Oktoberfest is.
I enjoyed the "show," but to be honest, I never really looked at it like a show in the first place. It was cool when you happened to be in the Festhaus to catch it, but I don't know that I ever once went out of my way to see it. Would I check the map for show times and plan my day around it? Umm, no. If I happened to be near the Festhaus and it was 110 degrees out, I may have looked at the sign to see if it was coming up as a way to lure my kids into the air conditioning but that was maybe the extent of the effort I would exert to see it.
I always viewed This is Oktoberfest as kind of an accent to the atmosphere of the Festhaus as opposed to any sort of "centerpiece." In some ways, I think you could argue that the show was a bit of a waste of that huge venue and the opportunity to add a full blown "dinner theater" experience to the park. I saw Entwined with Swiftman and I pointed out to him the body language of the audience. People were turned in their seats, facing their bodies toward the stage, leaning forward, not eating or talking. Just like you'd see at a normal show, but not really the same atmosphere you saw at This is Oktoberfest where it often felt like it was just happening more in the background.
I certainly can appreciate being disappointed that the Festhaus has lost it's beer hall theme, but honestly, I feel that has more to do to the new setting than losing the show. (If they kept the decor exactly the same, but just eliminated a show in there altogether, would the outcry be as loud?)
I don't think Entwined is bad. I don't really think that the concept of a fairy tale themed show in the Festhaus is a bad one either. (Yes, it's a huge gamble to change the theme of the venue, but it is a 35 year old theme after all. I can at least understand that argument.) I think the biggest flaw in the show is that they went TOO young with it. I mean, you can't honestly recommend this show to people without young children.
Anyway, just some food for thought. I really don't want to create a big argument because I don't particularly have a strong viewpoint on this one way or the other. Just wanted to throw it out there that there that there may have been some sound logic to what was done to the Festhaus, and that This is Oktoberfest may not have really been that great of a "show" in the first place.
BBW said:
(Please have smelling salts at the ready
)I'm going to risk committing a bit of heresy here, but... I really don't see what the big deal about This is Oktoberfest is.
I enjoyed the "show," but to be honest, I never really looked at it like a show in the first place. It was cool when you happened to be in the Festhaus to catch it, but I don't know that I ever once went out of my way to see it. Would I check the map for show times and plan my day around it? Umm, no. If I happened to be near the Festhaus and it was 110 degrees out, I may have looked at the sign to see if it was coming up as a way to lure my kids into the air conditioning but that was maybe the extent of the effort I would exert to see it.
I always viewed This is Oktoberfest as kind of an accent to the atmosphere of the Festhaus as opposed to any sort of "centerpiece." In some ways, I think you could argue that the show was a bit of a waste of that huge venue and the opportunity to add a full blown "dinner theater" experience to the park. I saw Entwined with Swiftman and I pointed out to him the body language of the audience. People were turned in their seats, facing their bodies toward the stage, leaning forward, not eating or talking. Just like you'd see at a normal show, but not really the same atmosphere you saw at This is Oktoberfest where it often felt like it was just happening more in the background.
I certainly can appreciate being disappointed that the Festhaus has lost it's beer hall theme, but honestly, I feel that has more to do to the new setting than losing the show. (If they kept the decor exactly the same, but just eliminated a show in there altogether, would the outcry be as loud?)
I don't think Entwined is bad. I don't really think that the concept of a fairy tale themed show in the Festhaus is a bad one either. (Yes, it's a huge gamble to change the theme of the venue, but it is a 35 year old theme after all. I can at least understand that argument.) I think the biggest flaw in the show is that they went TOO young with it. I mean, you can't honestly recommend this show to people without young children.
Anyway, just some food for thought. I really don't want to create a big argument because I don't particularly have a strong viewpoint on this one way or the other. Just wanted to throw it out there that there that there may have been some sound logic to what was done to the Festhaus, and that This is Oktoberfest may not have really been that great of a "show" in the first place.
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
No smelling salts necessary. lol!
I see the Festhaus as a beerhall (my perception). Oktoberfest is basically a massive celebration involving fermented beverages (which I can't drink, due to the meds I take...so I have no bias for or against alcoholic beverages). I always liked the celebratory atmosphere that TIO brought to the venue. To me, the show, the stage, the theming all were one complete unit. Nothing pulled against the direction of anything else. We enjoyed the show just being there...whether we were watching it or eating. It was a great 'background' during which to eat.
Our family (probably like most) only get to visit BGW maybe once a year...if that. So speaking for us, we don't get tired of TIO. Someone else who is often at the park will definitely grow tired of any show. I'm sure people were watching intently to see if the new (and radically different) show would 'pass muster'. I'd be shocked if everyone weren't watching it intently. Will they make plans to come back just to view it again?? I highly doubt it...unless their kids begged them to.
I don't think that the theme fits the Festhaus. I don't think the added theming elements fit with the old theming elements they are placed over.
Regardless, the Festhaus will always pull in crowds, because it's the best air conditioning in the summer and the best heating in the winter in the entire park. I'm not a huge fan of the food (although it is well received by my wife), but we will spend a significant amount of time in the building soaking up the air/heat when it's especially hot/cold outside. I think if there were NO show in the building, people would still go there just to 'hang' and soak up the atmosphere.
However, I do believe it is possible for a bad/inappropriate/unbalanced show to drive people from the building.
In short, TIO was the heart of the Festhaus for me. I've seen it referred to by someone else as their 'mecca'. Ditto for us. I can see where the park is headed with Oktoberfest. They're kicking the adults who prefer to celebrate Oktoberfest outside. I think this is a HUGE mistake. I'm sure the park makes a SIGNIFICANT amount of $$$ off of alcoholic beverage purchases (have you seen the prices lately? @_@ ). People will not want to sit outside in the heat or ice cold to celebrate Oktoberfest.
I see the new show as a serious tactical error for BGW. They could have left the original stage there (it was a bit of a piece of artwork by itself), and simply created a new TIO show. It would have involved WAY less money than what they spent on this new beast, and probably wouldn't have screwed up the theming. To rip out the original stage and eliminate the TIO show (or like we called it: the 'Festhaus show') is like ripping the heart out of the venue.
In the end, it's the parkgoer who decides whether the show is a hit or not. Not the employees nor the management of the park. If the park is smart (and I've seldom seen them not be smart), they will LISTEN to the feedback given by the average parkgoer and work to give them the experience they expect. That's just good (great?) business practice, and it's certainly helped BGW over the years. Let's hope they are still listening.
All the above are my personal opinions, all formed from going to the park since the late 80s and witnessing many changes...both good and bad. To me, this tops the removal of the BBW in my eyes...by a fair margin.
/insert smelling salts here/
Shafor said:BBW said:
(Please have smelling salts at the ready
I'm going to risk committing a bit of heresy here, but... I really don't see what the big deal about This is Oktoberfest is.
I enjoyed the "show," but to be honest, I never really looked at it like a show in the first place. It was cool when you happened to be in the Festhaus to catch it, but I don't know that I ever once went out of my way to see it. Would I check the map for show times and plan my day around it? Umm, no. If I happened to be near the Festhaus and it was 110 degrees out, I may have looked at the sign to see if it was coming up as a way to lure my kids into the air conditioning but that was maybe the extent of the effort I would exert to see it.
I always viewed This is Oktoberfest as kind of an accent to the atmosphere of the Festhaus as opposed to any sort of "centerpiece." In some ways, I think you could argue that the show was a bit of a waste of that huge venue and the opportunity to add a full blown "dinner theater" experience to the park. I saw this show with Swiftman and I pointed out to him the body language of the audience. People were turned in their seats, facing their bodies toward the stage, leaning forward, not eating or talking. Just like you'd see at a normal show, but not really the same atmosphere you saw at This is Oktoberfest where it often felt like it was just happening more in the background.
I certainly can appreciate being disappointed that the Festhaus has lost it's beer hall theme, but honestly, I feel that has more to do to the new setting than losing the show. (If they kept the decor exactly the same, but just eliminated a show in there altogether, would the outcry be as loud?)
I don't think Entwined is bad. I don't really think that the concept of a fairy tale themed show in the Festhaus is a bad one either. (Yes, it's a huge gamble to change the theme of the venue, but it is a 35 year old theme after all. I can at least understand that argument.) I think the biggest flaw in the show is that they went TOO young with it. I mean, you can't honestly recommend this show to people without young children.
Anyway, just some food for thought. I really don't want to create a big argument because I don't particularly have a strong viewpoint on this one way or the other. Just wanted to throw it out there that there that there may have been some sound logic to what was done to the Festhaus, and that This is Oktoberfest may not have really been that great of a "show" in the first place.
No smelling salts necessary. lol!
I see the Festhaus as a beerhall (my perception). Oktoberfest is basically a massive celebration involving fermented beverages (which I can't drink, due to the meds I take...so I have no bias for or against alcoholic beverages). I always liked the celebratory atmosphere that TIO brought to the venue. To me, the show, the stage, the theming all were one complete unit. Nothing pulled against the direction of anything else. We enjoyed the show just being there...whether we were watching it or eating. It was a great 'background' during which to eat.
Our family (probably like most) only get to visit BGW maybe once a year...if that. So speaking for us, we don't get tired of TIO. Someone else who is often at the park will definitely grow tired of any show. I'm sure people were watching intently to see if the new (and radically different) show would 'pass muster'. I'd be shocked if everyone weren't watching it intently. Will they make plans to come back just to view it again?? I highly doubt it...unless their kids begged them to.
I don't think that the theme fits the Festhaus. I don't think the added theming elements fit with the old theming elements they are placed over.
Regardless, the Festhaus will always pull in crowds, because it's the best air conditioning in the summer and the best heating in the winter in the entire park. I'm not a huge fan of the food (although it is well received by my wife), but we will spend a significant amount of time in the building soaking up the air/heat when it's especially hot/cold outside. I think if there were NO show in the building, people would still go there just to 'hang' and soak up the atmosphere.
However, I do believe it is possible for a bad/inappropriate/unbalanced show to drive people from the building.
In short, TIO was the heart of the Festhaus for me. I've seen it referred to by someone else as their 'mecca'. Ditto for us. I can see where the park is headed with Oktoberfest. They're kicking the adults who prefer to celebrate Oktoberfest outside. I think this is a HUGE mistake. I'm sure the park makes a SIGNIFICANT amount of $$$ off of alcoholic beverage purchases (have you seen the prices lately? @_@ ). People will not want to sit outside in the heat or ice cold to celebrate Oktoberfest.
I see the new show as a serious tactical error for BGW. They could have left the original stage there (it was a bit of a piece of artwork by itself), and simply created a new TIO show. It would have involved WAY less money than what they spent on this new beast, and probably wouldn't have screwed up the theming. To rip out the original stage and eliminate the TIO show (or like we called it: the 'Festhaus show') is like ripping the heart out of the venue.
In the end, it's the parkgoer who decides whether the show is a hit or not. Not the employees nor the management of the park. If the park is smart (and I've seldom seen them not be smart), they will LISTEN to the feedback given by the average parkgoer and work to give them the experience they expect. That's just good (great?) business practice, and it's certainly helped BGW over the years. Let's hope they are still listening.
All the above are my personal opinions, all formed from going to the park since the late 80s and witnessing many changes...both good and bad. To me, this tops the removal of the BBW in my eyes...by a fair margin.
/insert smelling salts here/
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
I agree it was time for a new show. The show has only gone down hill over the last few years. I think it was starting to carry that nostalgic feel. Now, do I think the direction they went was a good idea? Not really. "Roll out the Barrel" sounded like a better replacement show to me(not that much came out about it).
The only issue I see is, do you really want a show that most people will actually stop eating and focus directly on in the largest indoor eating venue at the park? Sure it's not the only place to eat, but it is the best place to eat on a day that doesn't include perfect weather.
One last note, the Festhaus is a "replica beer hall" regardless how you want to spin it. The TIO fit perfectly with the theme, which is why i'm sure most people upset over this hated to see it go. I could see revamping the show being a better idea, but maybe that's why i'm not employed by the park
Flamanar (should include you too Shafor, but your post always hold value), great post BTW. Glad to see some people posting quality post lately. :thumbsup:
Shafor said:(Please have smelling salts at the ready
I'm going to risk committing a bit of heresy here, but... I really don't see what the big deal about This is Oktoberfest is.
I enjoyed the "show," but to be honest, I never really looked at it like a show in the first place. It was cool when you happened to be in the Festhaus to catch it, but I don't know that I ever once went out of my way to see it. Would I check the map for show times and plan my day around it? Umm, no. If I happened to be near the Festhaus and it was 110 degrees out, I may have looked at the sign to see if it was coming up as a way to lure my kids into the air conditioning but that was maybe the extent of the effort I would exert to see it.
I always viewed This is Oktoberfest as kind of an accent to the atmosphere of the Festhaus as opposed to any sort of "centerpiece." In some ways, I think you could argue that the show was a bit of a waste of that huge venue and the opportunity to add a full blown "dinner theater" experience to the park. I saw Entwined with Swiftman and I pointed out to him the body language of the audience. People were turned in their seats, facing their bodies toward the stage, leaning forward, not eating or talking. Just like you'd see at a normal show, but not really the same atmosphere you saw at This is Oktoberfest where it often felt like it was just happening more in the background.
I certainly can appreciate being disappointed that the Festhaus has lost it's beer hall theme, but honestly, I feel that has more to do to the new setting than losing the show. (If they kept the decor exactly the same, but just eliminated a show in there altogether, would the outcry be as loud?)
I don't think Entwined is bad. I don't really think that the concept of a fairy tale themed show in the Festhaus is a bad one either. (Yes, it's a huge gamble to change the theme of the venue, but it is a 35 year old theme after all. I can at least understand that argument.) I think the biggest flaw in the show is that they went TOO young with it. I mean, you can't honestly recommend this show to people without young children.
Anyway, just some food for thought. I really don't want to create a big argument because I don't particularly have a strong viewpoint on this one way or the other. Just wanted to throw it out there that there that there may have been some sound logic to what was done to the Festhaus, and that This is Oktoberfest may not have really been that great of a "show" in the first place.
I agree it was time for a new show. The show has only gone down hill over the last few years. I think it was starting to carry that nostalgic feel. Now, do I think the direction they went was a good idea? Not really. "Roll out the Barrel" sounded like a better replacement show to me(not that much came out about it).
The only issue I see is, do you really want a show that most people will actually stop eating and focus directly on in the largest indoor eating venue at the park? Sure it's not the only place to eat, but it is the best place to eat on a day that doesn't include perfect weather.
One last note, the Festhaus is a "replica beer hall" regardless how you want to spin it. The TIO fit perfectly with the theme, which is why i'm sure most people upset over this hated to see it go. I could see revamping the show being a better idea, but maybe that's why i'm not employed by the park
Flamanar (should include you too Shafor, but your post always hold value), great post BTW. Glad to see some people posting quality post lately. :thumbsup:
RE: Entwined: Tales of Good and Grimm (2012)
To save everyone lots of keystrokes, I understand EXACTLY where you all are coming from. Just trying to present a viewpoint on this that I don't feel had been fully expressed here.
To save everyone lots of keystrokes, I understand EXACTLY where you all are coming from. Just trying to present a viewpoint on this that I don't feel had been fully expressed here.