Early Park Closures

[mwhinva]

I don't have a problem with the weather related closures, because weather is a dynamic element that can rarely being predicted with any kind of acceptable reliability to make a decision about traveling somewhere for a multiple hour event.

However, I do have a problem with Kings Dominion not being open until 10PM a single day this Spring/Summer. I brought this up in another thread, but every operating day this Spring/Summer at Kings Island they are going to be open 10AM to 10PM. I know they are different markets, but they have relatively similar population densities (2.2 million for greater Cincy area versus 1.2 million for greater Richmond area) and if they are both suffering from the same nationwide hiring issues, then I have a hard time swallowing the explanation of a 11AM to 9PM best-case operating day at Kings Dominion versus 10AM to 10PM operating day at Kings Island just being "sorry, we can't hire enough people". Sprinkle in the 11AM to 5PM Fridays in the Spring as the short operating days at Kings Dominion and you have a diminishing return on a Kings Dominion season pass versus Kings Island season pass. The gold pass prices at each park are $99 for KD and $120 for KI; seems like that extra $21 at KI gets you a bunch more hours at the park versus KD.

I have no idea where the blame/truth lies for the disparity in operating hours, but the difference in operating hours between KD and KI is pretty staggering...

About the same in population? Cincinati has a MILLION more people than the Richmond metro area. That is a HUGE difference in population! It's not like a 50,000 to 75,000 population difference.

With a poplation like that, I'm certain KI can find 1000-2000 extra employees a lot easier than KD can.

I'm not sure how much KD is thinking outside the box when it comes to hiring. It might mean Cedar Fair would have to budget extra money to assist the park.

One of the things I kept thinking of was a small bus fleet of 5-6 buses to shuttle employees back and forth to the park. There could be 2-3 centralized shuttle stops throughout metro Richmond where employees could be dropped off or they park in a under-utilized parking lot. The bus would pick folks up and drop them off at regularly scheduled times. Maybe have 1-2 shuttle stops in Fredericksburg to the north. That could help in hiring people to work in the park.

But, for every positive there is a negative.

Could KD find bus drivers to run those buses? There are shortages of drivers for public transit buses and city/county school buses already in the Richmond metro area.

Can they find mechanics to maintain the bus fleet? Again, there are shortages of mechanics in the area.

How will the park deal with transportation delays when road construction is going on or for the large number vehicle accidents that happen on I-95 or just good old traffic jams?

The biggest thing is the park's liability for the employees riding on those buses.

I just don't know a good solution these days for KD to deal with staffing shortages. Anyone else have any practical ideas?

 

[warfelg]

I’ve got a solution:

If you don’t like their business practices then stop giving them your money.

 

[panopticon31]

I’ve got a solution:

If you don’t like their business practices then stop giving them your money.

 

[bill s]

I probably have spent more time at KD 9-10 PM summers than anyone else here that never worked there, and it often gave me a sense of being too good to last. It wasn't just great because the park was usually empty, but it was. They just couldn't get people to stay that late, and yet persisted until recent events. And while you can point at BGW doing better, wasn't always so and SFA almost always have closed at 7.

A lot of days, I'm sure you can ride more at KD in 8 hours than 12 hours of CP or 10 hours at KI. The larger parks also have more to do if you have the time. It sounds like many locals have a shorter ride home from KI, and most guests at CP have hotel rooms.

There's a big problem with the math in claiming a lot of people have had closure issues associated with low turnout. Ironically, I expect that if you asked random people their impressions of the park, crowded would be the #1 answer (after remembering the Time Shaft).

 

[Jonesta6]

One of the things I kept thinking of was a small bus fleet of 5-6 buses to shuttle employees back and forth to the park. There could be 2-3 centralized shuttle stops throughout metro Richmond where employees could be dropped off or they park in a under-utilized parking lot. The bus would pick folks up and drop them off at regularly scheduled times. Maybe have 1-2 shuttle stops in Fredericksburg to the north. That could help in hiring people to work in the park.

Pretty sure there were GRTC express busses just for this purpose plus at least one or two repurposed school busses.

Actually, now that I think of it, I'm curious if the staff dorms had the same occupancy as pre-pandemic?

 

[warfelg]

One thing we rarely talk about with these early closures is the staffing, especially with the weather. They got to make sure that the staff has enough time to shut down registrars, close down rides, get water rides drained, get stands shut down, lock down games, get merchandise inside, and get off the clock. On top of that you want go get them out of there early enough so they aren't driving in dangerous conditions. Already struggling to get staff and now want to say they need to commute in dangerous conditions...yea way to do something that will attract more employees.

 

[panopticon31]

One thing we rarely talk about with these early closures is the staffing, especially with the weather. They got to make sure that the staff has enough time to shut down registrars, close down rides, get water rides drained, get stands shut down, lock down games, get merchandise inside, and get off the clock. On top of that you want go get them out of there early enough so they aren't driving in dangerous conditions. Already struggling to get staff and now want to say they need to commute in dangerous conditions...yea way to do something that will attract more employees.

How dare KD think about their employees at the expense of guest experience.

 

[bill s]

And speak of the devil ... "Due to inclement weather, Kings Dominion is closed today, Monday, April 18, 2022. Tickets purchased for today are valid any public operating day through September 5, 2022." Posted about 10:12 AM. Was getting ready to go, and too miserable a day to travel further.

 

[A_Sad_Squirrel]

And speak of the devil ... "Due to inclement weather, Kings Dominion is closed today, Monday, April 18, 2022. Tickets purchased for today are valid any public operating day through September 5, 2022." Posted about 10:12 AM. Was getting ready to go, and too miserable a day to travel further.

They didn't even tell employees this. People were showing up for work just to be told to go back home.

 

[super7]

So many excuses for such a failure of a park. I’m trying to understand why people accept this. Things only get worse when businesses get away with giving the customers less. It won’t surprise me if they close at 7 again all summer after they see another year of poor attendance.

In an area with bigger populations there are also more businesses competing for employees. There isn’t an automatic pool of more available employees in bigger populations. So the location argument is weak. Busch is just as far from Hampton Roads as KD from Richmond.

Plus a business that constantly cuts scheduled hours will NEVER get employees easily.

The big difference in KI and KD is thst KI operates as scheduled. And they have normal hours. They have closed a few times due to weather but it’s rare. KI is the sane distance from Indy as KD is from the much larger DC metro.

KD simply doesn’t pay people enough to go there to work. Because they don’t get enough attendance and aren’t willing to invest enough money in staffing and park hours to boost attendance. Bits a vicious circle that their management philosophy will not ever end.

The facts are the park is poorly attended, has pour hours, closes for rain, and hasn’t had a huge investment since 305. It’s an absolute failure of a beautiful park.

It’s o ky going to continue to detoriate as their poor management continues to chase off customers like myself. I live the park but won’t return due to short hours and magical closings that are false advertising at worst and bait and switch at best.

 

[super7]

They didn't even tell employees this. People were showing up for work just to be told to go back home.

That’s the sleazy low class actions of mgmt that I am talking about.

The weather forecast was bad for Monday on Sunday. Yet they allow employees and customers to travel there before they close. No wonder nobody wants to work there. They even aren’t guaranteed whats up thing hours!

 

[b.mac]

That’s the sleazy low class actions of mgmt that I am talking about.

The weather forecast was bad for Monday on Sunday. Yet they allow employees and customers to travel there before they close. No wonder nobody wants to work there. They even aren’t guaranteed whats up thing hours!

This is the risk with pretty much all outdoor entertainment businesses. If you wanna call KD low class for it you may as well just say the majority of the industry is as well, along with sporting and concert venues. This is a risk that comes with the job, and I'm saying that from my own personal experience as an operator.

Also I'm sure I'm not the only one who's thought about it here but we're kinda tired of your shit. Are you capable of a single positive thought or is all you wanna do piss all over everything?

Seriously dude, if you're this mad about KD just... don't. go.

 

[futureshock]

There is another fallacy built into @futureshock’s comparison. While KD has competition about an hour away (ie, BGW), the closest significant parks to KI are two hours away (Kentucky Kingdom, which has Louisville) and more than three hours away (CP, which is also part of the same company and draws from Cleveland).

So, unlike KI, KD is competing directly with another park for guests and employees.

And this just recently happened in the last few years?

What is the difference between the last few years and the last few decades where park hours were not significantly reduced?

 

[warfelg]

I need some cheese for all the whine going around this thread.

 

[futureshock]

About the same in population? Cincinati has a MILLION more people than the Richmond metro area. That is a HUGE difference in population! It's not like a 50,000 to 75,000 population difference.

With a poplation like that, I'm certain KI can find 1000-2000 extra employees a lot easier than KD can.

I'm not sure how much KD is thinking outside the box when it comes to hiring. It might mean Cedar Fair would have to budget extra money to assist the park.

One of the things I kept thinking of was a small bus fleet of 5-6 buses to shuttle employees back and forth to the park. There could be 2-3 centralized shuttle stops throughout metro Richmond where employees could be dropped off or they park in a under-utilized parking lot. The bus would pick folks up and drop them off at regularly scheduled times. Maybe have 1-2 shuttle stops in Fredericksburg to the north. That could help in hiring people to work in the park.

But, for every positive there is a negative.

Could KD find bus drivers to run those buses? There are shortages of drivers for public transit buses and city/county school buses already in the Richmond metro area.

Can they find mechanics to maintain the bus fleet? Again, there are shortages of mechanics in the area.

How will the park deal with transportation delays when road construction is going on or for the large number vehicle accidents that happen on I-95 or just good old traffic jams?

The biggest thing is the park's liability for the employees riding on those buses.

I just don't know a good solution these days for KD to deal with staffing shortages. Anyone else have any practical ideas?

I thought these buses existed in the past. Did they go away pre-pandemic?

I support the idea of the park opening later and staying open later.

At any rate, I am clearly in the minority on this topic about questioning the difference between operating hours at different parks.

 

[Mushroom]

So many excuses for such a failure of a park. I’m trying to understand why people accept this. Things only get worse when businesses get away with giving the customers less. It won’t surprise me if they close at 7 again all summer after they see another year of poor attendance.

In an area with bigger populations there are also more businesses competing for employees. There isn’t an automatic pool of more available employees in bigger populations. So the location argument is weak. Busch is just as far from Hampton Roads as KD from Richmond.

Plus a business that constantly cuts scheduled hours will NEVER get employees easily.

The big difference in KI and KD is thst KI operates as scheduled. And they have normal hours. They have closed a few times due to weather but it’s rare. KI is the sane distance from Indy as KD is from the much larger DC metro.

KD simply doesn’t pay people enough to go there to work. Because they don’t get enough attendance and aren’t willing to invest enough money in staffing and park hours to boost attendance. Bits a vicious circle that their management philosophy will not ever end.

The facts are the park is poorly attended, has pour hours, closes for rain, and hasn’t had a huge investment since 305. It’s an absolute failure of a beautiful park.

It’s o ky going to continue to detoriate as their poor management continues to chase off customers like myself. I live the park but won’t return due to short hours and magical closings that are false advertising at worst and bait and switch at best.

I’ll ask again: what evidence do you have that KD’s attendance is declining?

 

[warfelg]

I’ll ask again: what evidence do you have that KD’s attendance is declining?

Because weather is an excuse and shorter hours means less people, not that weather happens outdoors and staffing issues, duh./s

 

[super7]

This is the risk with pretty much all outdoor entertainment businesses. If you wanna call KD low class for it you may as well just say the majority of the industry is as well, along with sporting and concert venues. This is a risk that comes with the job, and I'm saying that from my own personal experience as an operator.

Also I'm sure I'm not the only one who's thought about it here but we're kinda tired of your shit. Are you capable of a single positive thought or is all you wanna do piss all over everything?

Seriously dude, if you're this mad about KD just... don't. go.

Aw poor baby. Are you tired?

I dont go anymore. That’s the problem. They are running if their customers….,

it’s not with all outdoor entrainment. You are a liar that can’t defend your sad position.

Busch managed to operate today given the same weather. As flawed as SEAS mgmt is at least they operate as scheduled or close with a days notice.

Theme parks used to operate in rainy days. I have been to KD in the 2010s when it poured, they stayed open as scheduled but they reopened the rides for the last hour. Those days are over and customers can’t count on an open park.

 

[super7]

I’ll ask again: what evidence do you have that KD’s attendance is declining?

No investment. Short hours. Actually observing attendance in visits. This park has been a ghost town on any weekday visit. One can easily see how poor attendance is with a quick trip up the tower and seeing an empty parking lotb

 

[panopticon31]

Theme parks used to operate in rainy days. I have been to KD in the 2010s when it poured, they stayed open as scheduled but they reopened the rides for the last hour. Those days are over and customers can’t count on an open park.

Its simple economics. Parks lose money on rainy days. The amount of people there on days like today with steady rain is almost non existent compared to a fair weather day since almost no rides are open. KD(CF) has decided it is in their best financial interest to close on days with inclement weather because they realize the financial savings outweigh the losses of one random dude crying on an internet forum he cant wander around an amusement park while its raining.